ewq1938
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- Jul 11, 2015
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I just noticed another connection to 911 there. Add 16 and 13 and you get 29, which is 9 and separate the 2 to get two ones or 9-1-1.
7 Common Errors of Interpretation for Chapters 4-6 of Revelation
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I just noticed another connection to 911 there. Add 16 and 13 and you get 29, which is 9 and separate the 2 to get two ones or 9-1-1.
Ronald D Milam
Active Member
Yes we agree.
You make good points, which I thought through, you don't think I get my answers by not reasoning out all the possibilities do you? So, what jibes more?
He is killed by the presence of his (Jesus) coming as are all the others at Armageddon. Jesus/God wants this to be a spectacle, that is why He allows them to gather at Armageddon by stopping his Plagues for a time via Vial #6, its not the Euphrates that dries up, its God' Plagues, he entices them put by allowing the Dragon, Beast and F.P. to lie unto them, telling them its now safe to come out of your hiding places in caves and basements, the Two-witnesses have died.
So, Jesus slays them all by the presence of his coming, and the bible states all men must die and be judged, for the life they lived on this earth.
But even if your suggestion was true, it proves there is never a contradiction in the bible, we create it by mistranslation or misinterpreting the meaning. But alas, IMHO, he is killed at the battle of Armageddon for all mankind to see, those not at war with God will not be killed at this time, so God/Jesus is sending a message, I am the boss, and I will from henceforth rule with an Iron Rod.
Lastly, Daniel specifically is told that his body is destroyed first, then cast into the lake of fire. God has stated all men must die, then the judgment, remember, God can not lie or tell an untruth.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
This is a word salad that makes little sense
Well then you have to say the beast and false prophet of REvelation either are not human (which the bible says they are) or that teh beast is not the antichrist which it clearly states he is.
It is the sea beast which rules th eworld for a short time and gather his armies to battle not at Armageddon but at Petra! He marshals' his forces at Armageddon just like th eallies marshalled their forces in England to attack Normandy on D-Day.
Ronald D Milam
Active Member
I am correct, I get that from you at times when someone destroys your argument. That's just a lazy way of dodging a rebut that quite frankly destroyed your points. Don't be lazy man.
No, he is human, and he is killed first just like Daniel says. You seemingly have zero ability to see into the Spirit world. Is Satan an all his demons without bodies alive? Come on man, its not thar hard to understand if the body is killed and THEN he is cast into hell, then in Rev. 19 when John saw the "VISION" he saw the Spirit being cast onto hell, and that spirit man was ALIVE ad trying not to be cast into hellfire.
The Ant-Christ is the 7th head of the figurative beast that arises from the Sea.
Megiddo is where this all happens at. Hence Armageddon.
I have not found any evidence to support the idea that people will disappear in the rapture. Do you have any?
Just as Rome remained in power for quite awhile after John was caught up to see the moment Jesus arrived in heaven.
As a general rule, I would agree with you. In this instance, Jesus was not part of the throne vision, until he appears as a slain lamb. To me, that's not something that should be overlooked.
These 4 spirit creatures are singing about the redemption of mankind by the blood of Jesus. Are these 4 spirit creatures also part of the church? It is my belief that they are singing on behalf of the redeemed, but neither they nor the 24 elders are the church.
Heb 8:1-5
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
There is no doubt that the earthly sanctuary is patterned after the heavenly sanctuary and not the other way around.
There is no reason to debate the order of angels in this thread.
I will try to back to this later.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I am usually accused of not writing enough so you are on contrast with many others. Also just saying you are correct doesn't make one correct.
Well He is partially human. He is the physical son of Satan and a human woman just as in Genesis 6. So HIs body may be destroyed but He is a hybrid.
well He is one of the heads. The beast is the fourth of the gentile kingdoms. It started with rome and still continues to this day. what is left to come of the fourth beast is: a 1 world govt., the ten kings, the antichrist.
Armageddon means the hill of megiddo. Man has popularized Armageddon as the place where the battle takes place. But teh bible does not say that.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
The antichrist takes his forces to Petra where the Jews havew been kept for 3 1/2 years as said in Rev. 12. There is where jesus returns and battles the antichrist back to Jerusalem.
Isaiah 63
King James Version
63 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
As the rapture is not spoken of much, this is the key passage- we will be snatched up and meet the Lord in the air!
Yes,
Rome was the first iteration of the fourth beat/ gentile power on the earth. It then went to the two division stage (2 legs of Daniel) when Rome split into tow. That division still remains today, though vanishing. what remains is this:
1 world govt.
1o kings
antichrist.
True, but JOhn gave no timeline other than what Jesus said that those things are what to happen "hereafte" not before.r
Well nowhere else (I say that for your benefit) are angels called elders. but church people have elders over them and Jesus promised to have the 12 sit on chairs with him. this is not absolute but very powerful anecdotal evidence the elders are the church. You can believe otherwise, but we will find out absolutely when we get home.
This is my continuation.
Ez 14:21 "For thus saith the Lord God; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?" Sword, famine, noisome beast, and pestilence; are all singular.
God sent the lion beast of Babylon to punish Israel for its sin. This lion beast used the sword (war) to conquer. He also used the siege, which caused famine and pestilence. This singularly fulfilled the 70 years of Babylonian punishment.
However, Israel did not turn to God, so God multiplied punishment by 7 or 490 years.
Media-Persia, the bear beast of Dan 7 arose with the sword and caused famine and pestilence a second time.
Greece, the leopard beast of Dan 7 arose with the sword and caused famine and pestilence a third time.
Rome, the dreadful and terrible beast of Dan 7 arose with the sword and caused famine and pestilence a fourth time.
God fulfilled the singular prophecy of Ez 14:21 four times, with world conquerors.
Dan 2:37-40
37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
These were 4 world powers aka beasts/conquerors. Dan 5:19 defines a world power as one that could put anyone to death. None of these 4 world powers put everyone to death. Dan 5:19 "And for the majesty that he gave him, all people, nations, and languages, trembled and feared before him: whom he would he slew; and whom he would he kept alive; and whom he would he set up; and whom he would he put down."
The next world power will reign at the time of Jesus' return. This will be a new version of the 4th beast. Dan 7:23-27
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
This new version of the 4th beast, the next world power, will be led by antichrist for 42 months. Unlike the beasts of the past, he will try to exercise his authority to kill everyone. He is described in Matt 24:21-22.
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
God does not tell us about any other world leaders with the power to kill whoever they wish. Coincidentally, the time in between the last version of the 4th beast and the new version of the 4th beast, is the time that Christians have been filled with the Holy Spirit and have died opposing evil authorities as seen in the 5th seal.
This is the reason Rev 6:7-8 says:
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Beasts is plural. These beasts are not animals, they are local leaders seeking world dominion. They have been limited in power for 2000 years.
The power of every world leader to put people to death through war, famine, and pestilence has been restricted to 1/4 of the earth; in spite of world wars, famines, and pestilences.
This is the fulfillment of the 5th seal. This has limited the power of beast/conquerors.
However, I don't believe John saw all of the martyrs for the past 2000 years in his vision. It is likely he only saw the first of these Christian martyrs. Rev 6:11 " And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
Compare the Rev 6:12-14 signs in the sun, moon, and stars with Matt 24:29
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;
Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
The great earthquake of Rev 6:12 is the last event of the great tribulation. Immediately after this earthquake, the sun, moon, and stars are darkened and there appears to be a tear or removal of the firmament between heaven and earth.
When the great tribulation ends, the period of God's wrath begins. These are 2 totally separate periods of time. The last 42 months of the 7 year covenant are the great tribulation. Jesus does not come immediately as the great tribulation ends. First, the sun, moon, and stars will be darkened, then all 7 bowls of wrath will be poured out. Jesus comes at the time of the 7th bowl of wrath, which is also shown in the 6th seal.
The repetition of Jesus' return with the Father is the evidence it's the same event.
The events that precede Jesus' return with the Father are different because the story of Jesus' return is told 6 times from 6 different perspectives; just as the 4 gospels tell 4 different stories that all emphasize the same event at the end: the death and resurrection of Jesus. If the gospels were all put together into one book as the Revelation, people would argue about the timing of Jesus death and resurrection just as they are arguing about the timing of Jesus' return.
The conqueror of the first seal is a lesser type of the noisome beast of Ezekiel 14:21, and the noisome beast is found in Dan 7.
Rev 6:2 "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
Ez 14:21 "For thus saith the Lord God; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?"
Dan 7:3-7
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
The conquerors/noisome beasts/beasts of history with unlimited authority to put to death anyone anywhere (100%) are known as Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome. These conquerors put people to death by means of war, famine, and pestilence as found in Ezekiel and seals 1-4. Although these had the authority, they didn't try to kill everyone.
When the conqueror Antichrist comes to power for 42 months in a new Roman Empire, he will try to kill everyone on earth. (100%)
From the time of the last Roman Empire until Antichrist, conquerors have not been able to put to death more than 25%. Use Mongol, Ottoman, Russian, and British Empires for examples.
This power to put to death is not generational, it's about empires.
The rapture does not leave behind a dead corruptible physical body. Before the rapture, the bones of the dead will come out of their graves and the bodies of the living will be changed in the twinkling of an eye from a dead corruptible physical body to an immortal body. I can say with certainty that we are living during the times of the 4th and 5th seal, and that the graveyards are full of corpses; even though the spirits of the dead are clothed with a different body in heaven than what they had on earth.
The martyrs are redeemed as you have stated, but they also gave their lives, preventing the final world empire from emerging.
The great tribulation begins with an event called the abomination of desolation and ends with the death, resurrection, and ascension of the 2 witnesses. Time, times and a half time, 42 months, 1,260 days, and 3.5 years are different expressions telling the duration of the great tribulation.
I agree that the GT is Jacobs trouble. Jacob (Israel) did not exist from 70 to 1948, so it couldn't get into trouble during those years.
The 144k are sealed before the 4 winds blow in the new Roman Empire. Compare Rev 7:1-3 with Dan 7:1-3.
The Trumpets started blowing with WWII, so you are right that the 144k are sealed during the Trumpets.
The Trumpets are blowing and the church is still here.
Jesus is going to bring the spirits of the dead with him when he comes to rule during the Millennium. These spirits will inhabit bodies that come up from the ground at that time. The resurrected immortal bodies will rise to join their spirits in the clouds with Jesus. Those with Jesus will rule on earth with Jesus during the Millennium.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
You have contradicted yourself. The four judgments are written in singular but then you have plural judgments of each!
Wrong again ! Even the angel defined three of the four beasts. Lion=Babylon, Bear with 2 ribs= Medeo/Persia, Leopard= greece.
Also from the time Artexerxes issued the order to rebuild Jerusalem until Jesus entry into Jerusalem on a colt was 483 years.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
This is 100% wrong. The Antichrist only goes to try to kill Jews and Christians. He leaves those with the mark alone.
We are clothed in heaven with new bodies.
We also rejoin our bodies that will come up from the earth at the time Jesus returns.
Both events are called resurrection.
I believe 1 Thes 4 is the resurrection and rapture that occurs when Jesus returns with the trump (voice) of God.
I believe 1 Cor 15 is the resurrection that occurs at the end of the Millennium, at the last trump (last voice of God.) No rapture at this time.
These are surrounded by the world armies. Rev 20:8-9
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
1 Cor 15:22-26
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Jesus reigns for 1000 years. Verse 25 says that Jesus has power over death, implying those who belong to him are no longer dead at the end of the 1000 years. However, the enemy Satan, that Jesus also has power over, gathers the world against the saints after the 1000 years have ended. It is only after this gathering has died that death is destroyed. When death is destroyed, the dead will appear before the great white throne. Those that were made alive and belong to Jesus at the end of the 1000 years are immortal and do not appear before the great white throne.
Rev 20:11-14
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:14 fulfills 1 Cor 15:26.
There are a multitude of verses that show dead bodies do come back to life. (Salvaged)
Dan 2:1 "And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him."
Dan 2:29 "As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass."
Dan 2:36-38
36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
In the 2nd year of King Nebuchadnezzar. Nebuchadnezzar was already reigning at the time of his dream about the hereafter in Dan 2:29. This was a past event although Daniel was going to show this king future events. This is confirmed in the present tense in Dan 2:38.
"What should come to pass hereafter" is repeated as "what shall come to pass."
This seemingly future tense is also found twice in Rev 4:1.
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
The dreams in both Daniel and Revelation show future events, but I believe Revelation 4:1 was a past state of heaven (the moment of Jesus ascension) just as Babylon was in a past state of existence (King Nebuchadnezzar's 2nd year).
The tabernacle on earth was built to reveal heaven. The 24 elders on earth worked in the tabernacle representing the 24 elders who were already in heaven at the time of the tabernacle constructed during the Exodus. Wasn't that 4000 years ago. The church will dress in the same manner and will become part of these 24 orders in the service of God.
Heaven was not constructed to reveal the church.
The seals are a separate story from the trumpets, just as Matthew is a separate story from Mark.
The seals are also not single day events. Story 1 is from Rev 6:1 - 6:17. Story 2 is from Rev 7:1 - 8:5. The 6th seal begins immediately after the period of great tribulation. The seal of the 144,000 begins a new story that starts before the 4 winds blow in a new world empire. The silence of the 7th seal is the time of the earthquake of Rev 6:12. The end of both stories contains the throne of God. Rev 6:16 specifically states the throne of God has come, while Rev 8:5 shows this same event symbolically.
The end of the time of the 6th trumpet Rev 11:13 shows the earthquake of Rev 6:12 which ends the GT. The silence of the 7th seal is the time the 2 witnesses spend ascending into heaven in Rev 11:12, ending the GT. This is followed by God's wrath in the 7th trumpet, including the symbolic version of the throne of God.
Continued
Joel 2:31 and the 6th seal do match. I don't know if it's an asteroid that causes the earthquake, but there is an earthquake which ends the GT. At the time of this earthquake, the 2 witnesses rise from the dead and ascend into heaven. Heaven gets dark and then the 3rd heaven is revealed. The 144,000 are 2 candlesticks which are 2 churches as revealed in Rev 1:20. These are the 2 witnesses of Rev 11 which ascended into heaven, who are shown as the 144,000 in heaven. The 144,000 are the firstfruits of those who will rise from the dead and ascend into heaven. There is a new song in heaven because this is something new in heaven.
Trumpet 1 was WWII. Trumpet 2 shows a mountain (Axis Powers) defeated and assimilated back into the sea of nations.
Trumpet 3 was the Chernobyl explosion. Chernobyl is Wormwood. Trumpet 4 was the radiation cloud.
The story of Rev 12:7-14:20 has the same time frame from beginning to end as the trumpet story. Heavenly war was reflected on earth.
Trumpet 1 corresponds to Rev 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels"
Trumpet 2 corresponds to Rev 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."
Trumpet 3 corresponds to Rev 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth..."
Trumpet 4 corresponds to Rev 12:9 "...and his angels were cast out with him."
Woe, woe, woe, then comes upon the earth because the devil has been cast down.
When the army of the 6th trumpet get to Jerusalem and stops the twice daily lamb sacrifice, the GT begins. Different aspects of the GT are shown through Rev 11:14.
Continued
The 6 stories have 1 conclusion, that is, they all come to the same end. Most stories do have different starting points and different facts.
What is your evidence that the seals begin during the 70th week?
Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Rev 7:9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
Compare these 2 groups of martyrs. There is nothing in the first group about when they arrived and they don't appear to be numerous. The second group does appear at the end of the GT, the end of the last half of the 70th week and they are a great multitude.
Seal 6 is a prophetic utterance in that it hasn't yet happened.
Rev 6:14-17
14 ...every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.)
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; (Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.)
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The bowls are defined as the wrath of God in Rev 15:1 "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."
Parts of the 6th and 7th last plagues are found in the 6th seal. The 6th seal also specifically states God's wrath is come. Help me understand how you conclude that God's wrath is not in the 6th seal.
In a recent post, I explained the symbolism of a mountain being a kingdom and the sea as the nations.
God's wrath is not part of the 42 months of GT. God's wrath sequentially follows the GT.
Story 1, Rev 6:1-6:17 Everything through 6:11 occurs before the GT. Everything after the earthquake of 6:12 occurs after the GT. Compare this to Matt 24. The signs in Matt 24:1-13 are the same as the first 5 seals, before the GT. Matt 24:14 jumps to the time of Gods wrath, after the GT. Matt 24:15-31 is a second Matt 24 story that begins at the GT in verses15-28, followed by God's wrath using the same signs as found in the 6th seal.
Story 2, Rev 7:1-8:5 Rev 7:1-8, the 144,000 are sealed before the 4 winds blow in the final Roman Empire. See Dan 7:2-3. Rev 7:9-17, the people who die and go to heaven during the GT. Rev 8:1-5, the prayers of the saints go to God and God answers by pouring out his wrath on the earth. Rev 8:2 is part of the 3rd story.
Story 3, Rev 8:6-11:19 Trumpets 1-5 occur before the GT. The GT begins when this army stops the twice daily sacrifice on the temple mount in Jerusalem. Rev 10 is similar to the time, times, and a half time of Dan 12, the GT. The 42 months and the 1260 days are the GT. The GT ends at Rev 11:14. The earthquake of Rev 11:13 is the same one found in Rev 6:12, ending the GT. This is followed by the 7th trumpet which again is described as God's wrath.
God's wrath always follows the GT which is the last half of the 70th week. The terms are not interchangeable, and they do not occur at the same time.
Story 4, Rev 12:7-14:20. This story follows the timing of story 3 from beginning to end. Rev 12:7-13 are before the GT. Rev 12:14-13:18 describe the GT. Rev 14:1-20 describe the time of God's wrath, the time after the GT
Story 5, Rev 15:1-16:21 The 7 bowls are the time of God's wrath. The GT has ended before these are poured out.
Story 6, Rev 18:1-19:21 The time of God's wrath, after the GT, after the 70th week.
Rev 17 is an explanation of the symbols and not part of any of the six stories which end in God's wrath.
The GT lasts for 1260 days. The 75 days between the end of the GT and day 1335 are the time of God's wrath.
AC's reign ends at day 1260, but he is not killed until after that, sometime during the next 75 days.
What is your evidence?
The "fourth" part "to kill" is different than having power over all peoples and nations for 42 months.
Matthew 24:22 describes what would have happened if AC were allowed to continue past the 42 months. "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
Matt 10:17-22 A message given to the 12 on their first mission without Jesus.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Compare with Matt 24:9-13 which are signs that occur after the birthpangs.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
These signs have a long history.
This pause is in heaven because something new is happening in heaven.
1st song reflected that people were saved through faith in a creator God. Rev 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
2nd song reflected that people were saved by faith in Jesus, the slain Lamb. Rev 5:9 "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"
3rd song reflects the sign of the son of man in Matt 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
Jesus died, rose from the dead, ascended into heaven while people watched. Then he is seen in heaven in Rev 5 as firstfruits of the resurrection.
The 2 witnesses of Rev 11 die, rise from the dead, ascend into heaven while people watch. Then they are seen in heaven in Rev 14:1-5 as the 144,000 firstfruits of the resurrection. The 2 witnesses are 2 churches/candlesticks containing 144,000 members.
But Jesus is not reigning on earth. Things are not yet on earth as they are in heaven.
I am looking at the quint. 1 foot with 5 toes in the west. US, UK, Germany, France, Italy
This leaves another foot for the middle east. Seleucia will return as did Israel after many centuries, Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia plus 1 more.
3 kings that will be put down. Rome will be destroyed as AC takes over the new Roman Empire from Seleucia. Israeli and Egyptian leaders will also be defeated.
Rev 17:16-18
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Rome was the city that reigned over the earth when John wrote the Revelation and Rome will again be that city over the 10 kings.
After burning up Rome, the little horn from the north, Seleucia will move 200 million cavalry through Israel and Egypt from the Euphrates River. (6th trumpet, Dan 11:40-45)
Gog will come to attack AC, but they will instead join forces to fight against God. Ez 38-39.
I was asking for evidence that people instantly vanish. Both Jesus and the 2 witnesses are visible when they are caught up until they disappear in the clouds.
What do you say about Daniel 2 where hereafter referred both to the past, King Neb was already in charge for 2 years, and the present, King Neb is that head of gold.
There you go.
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