7 PAGAN FESTIVALS WE STILL CELEBRATE TODAY ~ under the guise of Christian celebrations and names.

[Cassandra]

I think it is just more informative. I don't think anyone is trying to be legalistic. Actually a fascinating subject.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Birthdays were not even celebrated in the Scriptures by Jews or Christians. The very idea of a birthday is pagan
The only ones I can think of were Belshazzar and Herod.

True, but neither were there New Testament weddings... other then one to point out a miracle of Jesus turning water into wine.

I also do not remember much discussion on funerals... either.

But does not mentioning them mean that a family would not honor someone's birthday?

In the Old Testament it must have had some unmentioned importance or why would through the genealogies they would say so and so reached how many years.... but seemingly fell away from that in the new.

Now please... no one get your feathers ruffled. Just consider this.

You had a young woman who was chosen by the Lord God, because she was holy and pure to birth Christ Jesus for all of mankind who would accept Him. (I know that is an oversimplification)

And this young woman became one of the pillars in the Catholic Church and revered by other churches as well.

And she has been celebrated throughout history. (I DID NOT SAY WORSHIPPED>>> THERE IS A DIFFERENCE)
Even I , on mother's day, look up to the heavens and say Happy Mother's Day to Mary.

Yet we know next to nothing about her age much less her birthday.... simply because we truly had no need to know. We know she was betrothed to Joseph, but we don't know when. Again we had no need to know because the birth was and only shoud be centered around Christ Jesus....

NOW, I found the following from
Why Do Christians Celebrate Jesus' Birthday? (bolding and color changes are mine)

Why Do Christians Celebrate Jesus' Birthday?​

What’s So Important about Birthdays?​

What is it that birthdays celebrate? I think there is a simple answer to that…

Birthdays celebrate beginnings, and the celebration of Christmas is both a birthday and a beginning in more ways than one.

Christmas marks a first breath, in the way that every one of our birthdays mark the first day that a member of our family lived outside the womb. But Christmas also marks the beginning of a story … the earthly story of heavenly redemption.

Christmas is the day that the Christian church has chosen to mark or celebrate the birth of Christ, the incarnate beginning of the Son of God. He is God eternal, so we need to note that he had no beginning and will have no end. It’s clearly not something we can understand fully, but it is something that God’s Word states, so we must believe it and trust in it along with the rest of the mystery of creation, salvation and eternity.

There was a day when Christ was born, sometime over 2000 years ago. It is unlikely to have been the 25th of December, but it is as good a day as any. But why celebrate? That’s still the question isn’t it?

Back to the Heart of the Celebration​

We need to get back to realizing why we celebrate birthdays— and in particular HIS!

• A birthday is a beginning...
• His birthday is the beginning, the beginning of the Good News of salvation.
• It’s the start of something real, the salvation of sinners.
• We celebrate the birth, because it foreshadows a death, and then reveals a resurrection.

When Christmas comes, it is good to mark not the date, but the event. Do it on the 25th of December — everyone else is doing it then. But remember this day is about a birth and a death and eternal life.

Finally:

The First Christmas Celebration Recorded in History

Soon is Christmas day (Christ's mass). But for the first 300 years of Christianity, it wasn't so. When was Christmas first celebrated?

www.christianity.com

The First Recorded Celebration of Christmas​

DAN GRAVES, MSL |
OCT 23, 2020

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Today is Christmas day (Christ's mass). But for the first 300 years of Christianity, it wasn't so. When was Christmas first celebrated? In an old list of Roman bishops, compiled in A. D. 354 these words appear for A.D. 336: "25 Dec.: natus Christus in Betleem Judeae." December 25th, Christ born in Bethlehem, Judea. This day, December 25, 336, is the first recorded celebration of Christmas.



For the first three hundred years of the church's existence, birthdays were not given much emphasis--not even the birth of Christ. The day on which a saint died was considered more significant than his or her birth, as it ushered him or her into the kingdom of heaven. Christ's baptism received more attention than his birthday in the January 6th feast of Epiphany.

Was Jesus Born on December 25th?​

No one knows for sure on what day Christ was born. Dionysus Exiguus, a sixth-century monk, who was the first to date all of history from December 25th, the year of our Lord 1. Other traditions gave dates as early as mid-November or as late as March. How did Christmas come to be celebrated on December 25th? Cultures around the Mediterranean and across Europe observed feasts on or around December 25th, marking the winter solstice. The Jews had a festival of lights. Germans had a yule festival. Celtic legends connected the solstice with Balder, the Scandinavian sun god who was struck down by a mistletoe arrow. At the pagan festival of Saturnalia, Romans feasted and gave gifts to the poor. Drinking was closely connected with these pagan feasts. At some point, a Christian bishop may have adopted the day to keep his people from indulging in the old pagan festival.



Historian William J. Tighe offers a different view, however. When a consensus arose in the church to celebrate Christ's conception on March 25th, it was reasonable to celebrate his birth nine months later.

Origin of Christmas Traditions​

Many of the pagan customs became associated with Christmas. Christian stories replaced the heathen tales, but the practices hung on. Candles continued to be lit. Kissing under the mistletoe remained common in Scandinavian countries. But over the years, gift exchanges became connected with the name of St. Nicholas, a real but legendary figure of 4th century Lycia (a province of Asia). A charitable man, he threw gifts into homes.

Around the thirteenth century, Christians added one of the most pleasant touches of all to Christmas celebration when they began to sing Christmas carols.
No one is sure just when the Christmas tree came into the picture. It originated in Germany. The 8th century English missionary, St. Boniface, Apostle to Germany, is supposed to have held up the evergreen as a symbol of the everlasting Christ. By the end of the sixteenth century, Christmas trees were common in Germany. Some say Luther cut the first, took it home, and decked it with candles to represent the stars. When the German court came to England, the Christmas tree came with them.



Puritans forbade Christmas, considering it too pagan. Governor Bradford actually threatened New Englanders with work, jail or fines if they were caught observing Christmas.

​

Bibliography:

1. "Christmas." Encyclopedia Americana. Chicago: Americana Corp., 1956.
2. "Christmas." Encyclopedia Britannica. 1967.
3. "Christmas," "Dionysius Exiguus," and "Philocalian Calendar." Cross, F. L. and Livingstone, E. A. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. Oxford, 1997.
4. Hutchinson, Ruth and Adams, Ruth. Every Day's a Holiday. New York: Harper, 1951.
5. People's Almanac. Edited by David Wallechinsky and Irving Wallace. Garden City, N. Y.: Doubleday, 1975.
6. Veith, Gene Edward. "Why Decemebr 25?" World (December 10, 2005) p.32.
7. Tighe, William J. "Calculating Christmas." Touchstone, December, 2003. http://www.touchstonemag.com/docs/issues/ 16.10docs/16-10pg12.html

​

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I think it is just more informative. I don't think anyone is trying to be legalistic. Actually a fascinating subject.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

bit of info.It really doesn't matter. This is an old, old topic discussed ad nauseam on every forum I've ever been on. But a few people with nothing better to do always want to tell the rest of us how wrong we are.

You are welcome.

Just a wee bit of info. It is not imperative to read every thread. Participation is strictly voluntary.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

However, I will make an exception for Easter and Pentecost because they are based in the feasts. I tell people Easter should be called Firstfruits day (technically first of the Firstfruits) occurring on the morrow after the Sabbath. But otherwise, it tends to follow the biblical calendar to the very day, i.e. so-called Easter and Pentecost are when those days fall on the biblical calendar except when a leap month is added and then it's off by a month. But this does not happen very often. They are the only two feast/Sabbath days that the church is accidentally celebrating as if there's a divine reason for not messing up the timing.

Do a little research for me would you so it is ready when we get to Easter eventually.

We know according to all that has been suggested in the Holy Bible that the crucifixion happened during the Passover week and His resurrection happened ( the leaving of the tomb) just after . Sometime after 6PM on the weekly Sabbath but around or before dawn on Sunday. And the date for that was Nisan 14

Why do the Orthodox celebrate Easter on different days every year? Sometime the same as Catholics sometimes not.

In 2021 it fell on May 2
2022 it fell on Arpil 24

For the remainder of the 21st century, Easter will fall between April 4 and May 8 for Orthodox Christians, and March 22 and April 25 for Catholics.

 

[Pearl]

You are welcome.View attachment 37002

Just a wee bit of info. It is not imperative to read every thread. Participation is strictly voluntary.

I do know that and I don't read every thread. Some aren't worth reading.

 

[TinMan]

Your point,please?

"Christian holidays are just that.Christian. Pagan tradition actually has no part in them."

 

[Rockerduck]

Jesus was born on Dec. 25. The 1st century Christians put manger scenes up. Pagans took over Christian holidays not the other way around.

 

[Cassandra]

Source?

 

[Rockerduck]

Source?

Theophilus Bishop of Caesarea (115-181)wrote: "We ought to celebrate the birthday of our Lord on what day so ever the 25th of December shall happen." (Magdeburgenses, Cent. 2. c. 6. Hospinian, de orign Festorum Chirstianorum)

Hippolytus (ca. 165 – 235 C.E.), in his commentary on Daniel 4:23 wrote: “The first coming of our Lord, that is in the flesh, in which he was born at Bethlehem, took place eight days before the Kalends of January …”
Eight days before the calends of January is December 25.


Theophilus of Antioch (ca. 171 – 183 C.E.), in his discussion about the proper time to observe Easter state that the Gauls contended that just as they celebrated the birth of the Lord on December 25, regardless of what day of the week that fell on, so too Christians ought to celebrate Easter on March 25, regardless of what day of the week that fell on.

If the day Jesus was born was not a special day worthy of remembrance, why did the angelic host proclaim “unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.” In fact, if this day wasn’t worthy of remembrance, why was the nativity account even included in the Gospels? And why does it include so much historical detail about the time and place? Luke certainly made every effort to set the nativity in an historical context.

 

[liafailrock]

Do a little research for me would you so it is ready when we get to Easter eventually.

We know according to all that has been suggested in the Holy Bible that the crucifixion happened during the Passover week and His resurrection happened ( the leaving of the tomb) just after . Sometime after 6PM on the weekly Sabbath but around or before dawn on Sunday. And the date for that was Nisan 14

Why do the Orthodox celebrate Easter on different days every year? Sometime the same as Catholics sometimes not.

In 2021 it fell on May 2
2022 it fell on Arpil 24

For the remainder of the 21st century, Easter will fall between April 4 and May 8 for Orthodox Christians, and March 22 and April 25 for Catholics.

I know the answers already given I'm into calendars and the like. First of all, the Orthodox calendar (i.e. Julian) v.s. Gregorian: The Orthodox add a leap day every 4 years. Thus the year averages 365.25 days.

The Gregorian adds a leap day every 4 years minus century years except for those divisible by 400. Thus, years 1700,1800 and 1900 were not leap years but 2000 was. This makes the average year 365.2425 days which is very much closer to the actual 365.2422 days in a tropical year. Thus, the Orthodox calendar loses time since the time of Christ and is the reason they have their "Orthodox Christmas" about 2 weeks later in January than we do December 25. However, to them it is NOT January. It's still December 25. It's January on our Gregorian calendar. Before the Gregorian calendar, by the way, there was a calendar adjustment back in 1582 to skip 10 days in order to switch from the Julian calendar to what we now call the Gregorian calendar so October 4, 1582 then became October 15, 1582 the next day. You can see how it was really "later" than the earlier date on the Julian calendar, thus in like manner the Orthodox celebrate the likes of Christmas 2 weeks later.

So, this answers the Orthodox view of "later Easter" part of your question. As to Easter being on different dates according to Catholics (and Protestants for that manner), the date of Easter is celebrated on the first Sunday after the first full moon on or after the vernal Equinox which is taken to occur on March 21. Full moon can be on a March 21 (If that's a Saturday then Easter is Sunday the 22nd) or if it precedes it by one day (March 20th) then the next full moon is about April 19. If the day of April 19 is on a Monday, then 6 days later is the 25th, thus the limits of March 22 - April 25. Again, on the Orthodox calendar these dates are about 2 weeks later which brings those dates to the times you mentioned. So why this rule? The full moon business is simply a Gentile approximation to the Jewish calendar where full moon represents Nisan 14, the day Jesus was crucified. The Sunday after that is the Feast of Firstfruits when the priest waved the sheaf foreshadowing the resurrection and ascension of Jesus on that day. The year the Lord was crucified, He was interred the end of the 14th and 3 days later would bring us to Nisan 17th when as the sun was setting (Sabbath), he arose. The wave sheaf was cut on the Sabbath (Nisan 17) as the sun was setting on the year the Lord died.

 

[Cassandra]

Theophilus Bishop of Caesarea (115-181)wrote: "We ought to celebrate the birthday of our Lord on what day so ever the 25th of December shall happen." (Magdeburgenses, Cent. 2. c. 6. Hospinian, de orign Festorum Chirstianorum)

Hippolytus (ca. 165 – 235 C.E.), in his commentary on Daniel 4:23 wrote: “The first coming of our Lord, that is in the flesh, in which he was born at Bethlehem, took place eight days before the Kalends of January …”
Eight days before the calends of January is December 25.


Theophilus of Antioch (ca. 171 – 183 C.E.), in his discussion about the proper time to observe Easter state that the Gauls contended that just as they celebrated the birth of the Lord on December 25, regardless of what day of the week that fell on, so too Christians ought to celebrate Easter on March 25, regardless of what day of the week that fell on.

If the day Jesus was born was not a special day worthy of remembrance, why did the angelic host proclaim “unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.” In fact, if this day wasn’t worthy of remembrance, why was the nativity account even included in the Gospels? And why does it include so much historical detail about the time and place? Luke certainly made every effort to set the nativity in an historical context.

We are told nowhere to celebrate it in scripture. Luke had to establish that Jesus was born in the city of David to fulfill Messianic prophecy. You are quoting Church fathers from 2nd century''

"
"Unlike the Romans, however, Jews and Christians tended not to recognize birthdays. Late in the first century AD, Josephus remarks that "the law does not permit us to make festivals at the births of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess" (Against Apion, II.26). Indeed, only two birthdays are mentioned in the New Testament: that of Pharaoh (Genesis 40:20) and Herod Antipas, tetrarch of Galilee, whose marriage to his brother's wife Herodias had been denounced by John. When her daughter Salome danced before the king at his birthday feast, she was promised whatever she might ask—which, at the instigation of her mother, was the head of John the Baptist (Matthew 14:6ff, Mark 6:17ff; Luke 9:7ff; Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, XVIII.5.2).


That the gods themselves had birthdays was thought ridiculous as well. Writing about AD 296, Arnobius mocks pagans for anthropomorphizing them. "We men gather our vintages, and they think and believe that the gods gather and bring in their grapes; we have birthdays, and they affirm that the powers of heaven have birthdays" (Adversus Nationes, VII.34). Rather, it was the anniversary of one's death that should be remembered; indeed, "the day of death [is better] than the day of one's birth" (Ecclesiastes 7:1).


Mark and Paul make no reference to when Jesus was born, and Matthew and Luke, although they include an account of Jesus' birth, do not mention the time of year. Nor were the early Christian fathers interested in establishing a calendar date. Origen admonished his listeners in Alexandria that "Not one from all the saints is found to have celebrated a festive day or a great feast on the day of his birth. No one is found to have had joy on the day of the birth of his son or daughter. Only sinners rejoice over this kind of birthday....the saints not only do not celebrate a festival on their birth days, but, filled with the Holy Spirit, they curse the day" (Homilies on Leviticus, VIII.3.2).

Sol Invictus and Christmas

 

[Cassandra]

BRUMALIA
The Brumalia was an ancient Roman festival honoring Saturn, Ops, and Bacchus. (It is possibly related to the ancient Greek Lenaia, held in honor of Dionysus.) The festival lasted thirty days and ended on December 25, the day designated on the old Julian calendar as the winter solstice. The name is derived from the Latin word bruma, meaning "shortest day," "cold weather," or even "winter solstice." It included drinking and merriment. According to Choricius of Gaza, Oration XIII, the festival was celebrated as late as the 6th century AD during the reign of Emperor Justinian I.

Brumalia

 

[BlessedPeace]

We're not to celebrate birthdays now because they're of pagan origin. Not Christmas,Easter,Halloween. Same reason. Pagan origins.

Boy are we screwed in going
to work on pagan Moonday.

 

[Jack]

MANY of us were raised to believe Christmas and Easter are the heart of Christianity. Actually they have little to do with the Christian Bible.

 

[Rockerduck]

We are told nowhere to celebrate it in scripture. Luke had to establish that Jesus was born in the city of David to fulfill Messianic prophecy. You are quoting Church fathers from 2nd century''

"
"Unlike the Romans, however, Jews and Christians tended not to recognize birthdays. Late in the first century AD, Josephus remarks that "the law does not permit us to make festivals at the births of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess" (Against Apion, II.26). Indeed, only two birthdays are mentioned in the New Testament: that of Pharaoh (Genesis 40:20) and Herod Antipas, tetrarch of Galilee, whose marriage to his brother's wife Herodias had been denounced by John. When her daughter Salome danced before the king at his birthday feast, she was promised whatever she might ask—which, at the instigation of her mother, was the head of John the Baptist (Matthew 14:6ff, Mark 6:17ff; Luke 9:7ff; Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, XVIII.5.2).


That the gods themselves had birthdays was thought ridiculous as well. Writing about AD 296, Arnobius mocks pagans for anthropomorphizing them. "We men gather our vintages, and they think and believe that the gods gather and bring in their grapes; we have birthdays, and they affirm that the powers of heaven have birthdays" (Adversus Nationes, VII.34). Rather, it was the anniversary of one's death that should be remembered; indeed, "the day of death [is better] than the day of one's birth" (Ecclesiastes 7:1).


Mark and Paul make no reference to when Jesus was born, and Matthew and Luke, although they include an account of Jesus' birth, do not mention the time of year. Nor were the early Christian fathers interested in establishing a calendar date. Origen admonished his listeners in Alexandria that "Not one from all the saints is found to have celebrated a festive day or a great feast on the day of his birth. No one is found to have had joy on the day of the birth of his son or daughter. Only sinners rejoice over this kind of birthday....the saints not only do not celebrate a festival on their birth days, but, filled with the Holy Spirit, they curse the day" (Homilies on Leviticus, VIII.3.2).

Sol Invictus and Christmas

You asked for source, I gave you source. I said Jesus was born on December 25. The 2 century Fathers made the statement to clarify what Christians were already doing from the 1st century, they didn't just make it up and say celebrate on that day. Did you not think that Christians at Ephesus where Mary and the Apostle John stayed would not ask when was Jesus born; It was already well known.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

MANY of us were raised to believe Christmas and Easter are the heart of Christianity. Actually they have little to do with the Christian Bible.

Maybe we should just ignore what the crucifixion and resurrection were all about?

In this day of inflation those who exchange at Christmas time would save a lot of money.
So I agree banning it is wise... because that is all people think about.

But not the celebration after Passover. The thanks and praise are appropriate.

 

[Taken]

7 PAGAN FESTIVALS WE STILL CELEBRATE TODAY ~ under the guise of Christian celebrations and names.​

I have ZERO issue with PEOPLE acknowledging the remembrance of Christ Jesus’ from His Birth, to His Death, to His Resurrection, to His Accession, and Anticipation of His Return.

I have ZERO issue with PEOPLE being Thankful for a bountiful Harvest.

I have ZERO issue with PEOPLE (strangers included) willfully giving other PEOPLE gifts of (money, debt relief, food, treats, apparel, tangible items, etc.)

It is wholly silly to presume Remembrances, Gift Giving’s, Thankfulness’, was or is, LIMITED to a particular ancient, historical or modern PEOPLE’S beliefs, cultures or common HUMAN Behavior.

It is further silly to NOT acknowledge the multiple CHANGES men have EFFECTED to Widly accepted CALENDARS, for EASE purposes such as (Conducting Business transactions, Outdoor works with day light, school children coming and going to schools in day the light…world wide primarily adding, subtracting, days, hours, and calling it a solar Calendar, from Calculations called Greewich mean time.

Scripture itself established days to Remember, according to a Lunar Cycle.

Scripture itself established Spirits to Remember, People to Remember.

Scripture itself established willing Debt relief, Gathering to Eat, Offerings, Gift Givings …

I do not care about precise DATES.
I do not care what person, group, takes or is given credit for doing this or that.

The importance to me IS…God Himself IS the FIRST Giver and Praising and Thanking the Lord God for any and all blessing you are able TO Give or TO Receive IS the Highlight.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keiw]

I am a born again Christian. I honour Jesus' birth, death and resurrection because without them I would still be a sinner unreconciled with God. Now Christians can honour these events at any time of the year but it is lovely to know that at certain times we are all honouring them at the same time together as the Church of Christ - his body.

Obviously we all know that wasn't the actual date of his birth but since nobody knows for certain what that is we have it as his 'official' birthday - a bit like the UK monarchs have real birthdays celebrated by family and personal friends and also official public ones.

People can call it what they want but the reason for these 'celebration' is Jesus and if it's about him then it's not wrong.

Only people who don't understand that would call it pagan.

Jesus will accept 0 off the table of demons. Both Christmas and Easter are filled with pagan false god worship practices. 1Cor 10:21)--The false god associated with the Chaldean rites of spring pagan false god worship celebration=Beltis, queen of the gods-Also called Astarte and Ishtar( different languages) on the assyrian monuments-Ishtar, the h is silent. its pronounced eastar--They named the holiday after that false god. They = the great apostasy( 2 Thess 2:3) = Catholicism centuries ago.

 

[Jack]

Jesus will accept 0 off the table of demons.

Including Kingdom Hall victims who don't even believe their own JW bible that says Jesus is God and Hell fire is everlasting!