7 reasons why Peter was not perfect after Pentecost and was guilty of sin.

[Ziggy]

So you can not point to any Scripture that says hypocracy of men against men is a Sin?

What is the Penalty/ Judgement for a man committed hypocrisy ?

They used to burn you at the stake, or boil you in oil, or feed you to the lions.

I hope they don't start that again..

 

[Taken]

Jesus declared hell in Matthew 23 is that severe enough for you ?

Jesus did not condemn or Judge anyone to Hell in Matt 23.

Jesus critized "their demand" for others to work, while they did not follow their own "demands".

Matt 23:
[3] ...do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Failing to work is not a sentence to go to hell.
Able to work and Failing to work is a sentence of not entitled to Eat.

2 Thes 3:
[10] ... if any would not work, neither should he eat.

 

[Taken]

They used to burn you at the stake, or boil you in oil, or feed you to the lions.

I hope they don't start that again..

I think burning at the stake was for disbelief.
Boiled in oil...what a waste of oil.
Feed to Lions...entertainment, gambling.

 

[Ziggy]

I think burning at the stake was for disbelief.
Boiled in oil...what a waste of oil.
Feed to Lions...entertainment, gambling.

The good old days:

The Inquisition has its origins in the early organized persecution of non-Catholic Christian religions in Europe. In 1184 Pope Lucius III sent bishops to southern France to track down heretics called Catharists. These efforts continued into the 14th Century.

During the same period, the church also pursued the Waldensians in Germany and Northern Italy. In 1231, Pope Gregory charged the Dominican and Franciscan Orders to take over the job of tracking down heretics.

The Job of Inquisitors
Inquisitors would arrive in a town and announce their presence, giving citizens a chance to admit to heresy.
Those who confessed received a punishment ranging from a pilgrimage to a whipping. Those accused of heresy were forced to testify. If the heretic did not confess, torture and execution were inescapable. Heretics weren't allowed to face accusers, received no counsel, and were often victims of false accusations.

Inquisition.

 

[Taken]

The good old days:

The Inquisition has its origins in the early organized persecution of non-Catholic Christian religions in Europe. In 1184 Pope Lucius III sent bishops to southern France to track down heretics called Catharists. These efforts continued into the 14th Century.

During the same period, the church also pursued the Waldensians in Germany and Northern Italy. In 1231, Pope Gregory charged the Dominican and Franciscan Orders to take over the job of tracking down heretics.

The Job of Inquisitors
Inquisitors would arrive in a town and announce their presence, giving citizens a chance to admit to heresy.
Those who confessed received a punishment ranging from a pilgrimage to a whipping. Those accused of heresy were forced to testify. If the heretic did not confess, torture and execution were inescapable. Heretics weren't allowed to face accusers, received no counsel, and were often victims of false accusations.

Inquisition.

Ain't that a Pope for Catholics to be proud of?!!

 

[Ziggy]

Ain't that a Pope for Catholics to be proud of?!!

Everyone will have to answer for their own sins.
Every religion is filled with vultures and thieves.
Wheat and Tares... all around us..
waiting for the harvest
Amen
Hugs

 

[Taken]

Everyone will have to answer for their own sins.
Every religion is filled with vultures and thieves.
Wheat and Tares... all around us..
waiting for the harvest
Amen
Hugs

Agree.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I will call this Paul's sevenfold rebuke of Peters hypocrisy and beak it down with scripture not my opinion.

Paul's words to Peter were as follows:

1) I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
2)he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.
3) The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy,
4) so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
5)they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel
6)You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew
7)you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs

You can read the story in Galatians 2.

And please don't blame me for this blame God, Paul and Peter since God included in His word and Paul confronted Peter.

BTW- if Peter an Apostle could not reach a sinless state post indwelling of the Holy Spirit what on earth makes you think you are above Peter in reaching sinlessness ?

hope this helps !!!

Certainly, all men are sinners, including Peter. Paul's rebuke of Peter was certainly not one-upmanship. It was critical that Paul establish the equality between Jews and Gentiles, in the face of legitimate cultural differences, in order to justify his own ministry to the Gentiles. Peter later fully embraced Paul's teachings in one of his letters.

The interesting thing is I was just reading the book of Galatians, and came across a verse I've never fully understood. Paul seemed to be arguing that Peter's withdrawal from Gentile believers, when James arrived, may have appeared to indicate Christ himself didn't want to mingle with sinners? And so, Paul wrote:

Gal 2.17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

I'm wondering here if Paul is saying, "Christ is not promoting sin by encouraging Jewish believers to mingle with Gentile believers?" If so, what is the thing Paul is saying Peter was trying to "rebuild"--the Law of Moses, and the wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles?"

How then would that really make them "sinners?" Is it because restoring the Law of Moses reestablishes the sinfulness of all men, thus confirming that they really are sinners?

If anybody can explain this to me, I would appreciate it? For some reason it's hung me up for years.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Gal 2.17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

It appears, on 2nd thought, that Paul is arguing that reconstructing a life of sin that Christ destroyed on the cross would indeed make us "sinners." The Law was designed to destroy sins, but only Christ made this final.

To reject Christ in order to return to the Law is to turn back to a system designed to suppress--not enable--sin. If men, then, turned away from Christ, not only would they be rejecting Christ's redemption of sin, but they would also be rejecting the Law's suppression of sin.

To turn away from Christ is to turn away from the very purpose of the Law, which was to suppress sin and lead to eternal redemption.
To reconstruct the sin that had developed even under the Law would certainly be what Paul opposed.

 

[justbyfaith]

So maybe it was first in private then in public. He might not of repented when he was confronted face to face.

You appear to be defending the sinlessness of Paul while trying to accuse Peter of misconduct.

The fault was not that he taught error of doctrine, but that he sinned in conduct.

Peter's conduct affected doctrine; which is why it was necessary for Paul to confront it in a public manner.

The idea is, that the conduct of Peter was such as to lead the Gentiles to the belief that it was necessary for them to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Actually, it did not go to that extent. The Gentiles there were not convinced that they needed to be circumcised; but if Paul had not confronted Peter, they would have believed that they needed to obey the food laws of Jewish custom in order to be saved.

I believe that this could have been handled better by a preaching of the principles found in 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 15 and Romans 15:1-3. It would have resolved the issue simply to proclaim the reason why Peter did what he did, that it was to be sensitive to the consciences of the Jewish people who had arrived according to those passages.

But, hindsight is 20/20. They very likely did not think to do that at the time and one cannot say that they sinned in that they did not think to do that.

Certainly, all men are sinners, including Peter.

All men are sinners in that they have indwelling sin. But not all men are sinners in that, in some, the element of sin has been rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that sin no longer has any dominion over them (Romans 6:14). Entire sanctification is a faithful doctrine (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11)..

 

[charity]

is hypocrisy a sin ?

Hello Christophany,

'Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.' (Luke 12:1b) 'The doctrine of the Pharisees', or' the leaven of the Pharisees' as it is translated elsewhere, was hypocrisy. Their doctrine was not called 'leaven' for nothing, for the action of leaven is to expand and fill-up the whole - in other words it is a powerful influence. Peter's action had the potential to produce just such a phenomenon in the response of those who had witnessed it, or in those over whom he had influence, or who valued his witness, and was in awe of his position among the church council at Jerusalem. As to whether it could be considered a sin, I don't know.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

'If we say that we have no sin,
we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins,
He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned,
we make Him a liar,
and His word is not in us.'
(1 John 1:8-10)

Hello @Christophany

It appears that you are directing your OP towards those to whom you have previously been in controversy, in relation to the possibility of sinless perfection, which always seems to lead to disputation and disagreement of a polarizing nature. It does not seem possible to discuss this subject objectively, by letting the word of God be the arbiter.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[justbyfaith]

It appears that you are directing your OP towards those to whom you have previously been in controversy, in relation to the possibility of sinless perfection,

Again, "sinless perfection" is a misnomer that is applied to the doctrine of entire sanctification in order to create a straw man that is easily toppled by 1 John 1:8.

When in all reality, the doctrine does not proclaim that sin is eradicated from the believer (i.e. that the believer is sinless, without sin, having no sin) but rather that the element of sin is rendered dead within him (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over his behaviour (Romans 6:14).

That entire sanctification is a faithful doctrine is evident in the following scriptures.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9;

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10;

1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6;

1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17;

Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11 (nlt).

 

[charity]

Hello @justbyfaith

Thank you for your response, and for the many references for my consideration. Although it was not my intention to promote this as a subject when responding to @Christophany, I shall certainly look up your references, and consider this subject in the light of them.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Yan]

Circumcision is not from God, but from the ancestor (John 7:19-22) which is Noah who got the first commandment of Seven Noahide Laws. Circumcision was used after Ham was made a great shame of sin and drunk with the lust and commit adultery with his own mother that bring birth of the cursed child Canaan (Genesis 9:18-29).
Why did circumcision used after Nimrod as the son of Ham had become the ruler of Babylonian as the leader of society in those days ?
Because Nimrod himself & his parents seems didn't want to be punished by society when his father did those humiliate sin. It seems that since then there was a great competition between the grandson of Noah to be a better leader in front of a men, and that was one of reason why did Nimrod was envy and worried when Abraham was prophecied to be born as the next annointed. Nimrod didn't want his security as a great leader of Babylonian had become replaced with the newly sinless and more righteous before God and men as Abraham were born, that's why he tried to defame Abraham with torture including with black magic as this dark art was taught by fallen angel in the past before the great flood. Nimrod seems put Abraham into the strictest law to his life that he would be known as the liar by society as this was the main objectives of circumcision, that's why moslem wrote Abraham's circumcision as the act of Nimrod put Abraham into flames.
The original Seven Noahide Laws was then used as the basement of 10 Commandments of Moses, and the brass serpent Nehushtan was made as the warning to Israelite that the fruit of inobedient of the law will be thrown into the serpent hands, but at the time of Moses the lack of fleshy desire to obey the commandments was not the main concern as the law was not clearly mentioned about the works of the devil in those fleshy desire (Romans 7:11-17).

So then, why did Cephas draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group (Galatians 2) because circumcision group had become savage and lack of compassion. The fruit of circumcision makes mankind become savage and arrogant, this had shown in Ishmael nature where Abraham had noticed the rudeness in Ishmael. And maybe this was the main concern of Paul when he wrote that the curcumcision makes you separated from the Nature of Christ (Galatians 5:1-6).

 

[Ziggy]

Circumcision is not from God, but from the ancestor (John 7:19-22) which is Noah who got the first commandment of Seven Noahide Laws. Circumcision was used after Ham was made a great shame of sin and drunk with the lust and commit adultery with his own mother that bring birth of the cursed child Canaan (Genesis 9:18-29).
Why did circumcision used after Nimrod as the son of Ham had become the ruler of Babylonian as the leader of society in those days ?
Because Nimrod himself & his parents seems didn't want to be punished by society when his father did those humiliate sin. It seems that since then there was a great competition between the grandson of Noah to be a better leader in front of a men, and that was one of reason why did Nimrod was envy and worried when Abraham was prophecied to be born as the next annointed. Nimrod didn't want his security as a great leader of Babylonian had become replaced with the newly sinless and more righteous before God and men as Abraham were born, that's why he tried to defame Abraham with torture including with black magic as this dark art was taught by fallen angel in the past before the great flood. Nimrod seems put Abraham into the strictest law to his life that he would be known as the liar by society as this was the main objectives of circumcision, that's why moslem wrote Abraham's circumcision as the act of Nimrod put Abraham into flames.
The original Seven Noahide Laws was then used as the basement of 10 Commandments of Moses, and the brass serpent Nehushtan was made as the warning to Israelite that the fruit of inobedient of the law will be thrown into the serpent hands, but at the time of Moses the lack of fleshy desire to obey the commandments was not the main concern as the law was not clearly mentioned about the works of the devil in those fleshy desire (Romans 7:11-17).

So then, why did Cephas draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group (Galatians 2) because circumcision group had become savage and lack of compassion. The fruit of circumcision makes mankind become savage and arrogant, this had shown in Ishmael nature where Abraham had noticed the rudeness in Ishmael. And maybe this was the main concern of Paul when he wrote that the curcumcision makes you separated from the Nature of Christ (Galatians 5:1-6).

I have only heard of the Noahide laws..I haven't done any serious reading though.
Interesting where you write Abraham had noticed the rudeness in Ishmael, the Bible doesn't agree.
It was Sarah who was angry and said Ishmael was mocking.
Which is interesting, because when God first told Abram he would have a son, he laughed.
When God told Sarah she would have a son, she laughed. And got caught. And then denied she laughed. This is right before Sodom became a BBQ.
Sarah already had issues with Ishmael even before he was born, she threw Hagar out into the wilderness to die. God found her and told her to go back and put herself under Sarah's submission.. (women changing the nature of subjecting themselves to man) and men subjecting themselves to men, working that which is unseemly.. Man is head, Woman body. We got 2 heads.. or 2 bodies.. not good.
Anywho..
Sarah names her son Isaac which means Laugh (mock) . And says God has made her to laugh and the whole world will laugh with her.
(paraphrasing) .. So one day Ishmael is laughing (mocking) ... Like Sarah said right??!! And she throws them out again. And this makes Abraham sad because it is his Son.
Ishmael at 13 years and Isaac at 8 days Abraham at 99years all circumcised.
It seems a lot of what you wrote may have come from the Book of Enoch as well?
And it is the Ram that gets sacrificed instead of Isaac and they put a snake on the pole..
Lot of Bias in the Bible. Same we see today between Arabs and Jews. It's a family thing. They are Brothers.
Until they figure out how to Love eachother war will continue in the middleast..
Anywho..
Thank You Yan
You gave me a lot to think about..
Hugs

 

[Yan]

I have only heard of the Noahide laws..I haven't done any serious reading though.
Interesting where you write Abraham had noticed the rudeness in Ishmael, the Bible doesn't agree.
It was Sarah who was angry and said Ishmael was mocking.
Which is interesting, because when God first told Abram he would have a son, he laughed.
When God told Sarah she would have a son, she laughed. And got caught. And then denied she laughed. This is right before Sodom became a BBQ.
Sarah already had issues with Ishmael even before he was born, she threw Hagar out into the wilderness to die. God found her and told her to go back and put herself under Sarah's submission.. (women changing the nature of subjecting themselves to man) and men subjecting themselves to men, working that which is unseemly.. Man is head, Woman body. We got 2 heads.. or 2 bodies.. not good.
Anywho..
Sarah names her son Isaac which means Laugh (mock) . And says God has made her to laugh and the whole world will laugh with her.
(paraphrasing) .. So one day Ishmael is laughing (mocking) ... Like Sarah said right??!! And she throws them out again. And this makes Abraham sad because it is his Son.
Ishmael at 13 years and Isaac at 8 days Abraham at 99years all circumcised.
It seems a lot of what you wrote may have come from the Book of Enoch as well?
And it is the Ram that gets sacrificed instead of Isaac and they put a snake on the pole..
Lot of Bias in the Bible. Same we see today between Arabs and Jews. It's a family thing. They are Brothers.
Until they figure out how to Love eachother war will continue in the middleast..
Anywho..
Thank You Yan
You gave me a lot to think about..
Hugs

I think the rudeness of Ishmael had been shown in this verse.

Genesis 16:12 (UKJV)
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

If he was rude then he was an unlawness man, that's why Abraham pray for him to be saved. It seems this pray was the concern of God to give Jesus into Gentiles as a redeemer to all sinners including Canaan, Ishmael, and all people outside Jews.

Genesis 17:18 (UKJV)
And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before you!

The redemption of Jesus had given to all mankind not only for jews, because since OC there were nobody could obey 10 commandments in their entire life.
This was make sense when Jesus told them in John 7:19, even in this very day nobody could obey 100% perfection in OC laws on their entire life. Because the nature of men are corrupted with sin since the beginning of time.

 

[Ziggy]

I think the rudeness of Ishmael had been shown in this verse.

Genesis 16:12 (UKJV)
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

If he was rude then he was an unlawness man, that's why Abraham pray for him to be saved. It seems this pray was the concern of God to give Jesus into Gentiles as a redeemer to all sinners including Canaan, Ishmael, and all people outside Jews.

Genesis 17:18 (UKJV)
And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before you!

The redemption of Jesus had given to all mankind not only for jews, because since OC there were nobody could obey 10 commandments in their entire life.
This was make sense when Jesus told them in John 7:19, even in this very day nobody could obey 100% perfection in OC laws on their entire life.

Gen 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20 And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.

You know the story about the woman at the well???
Watch:

Jhn 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
Jhn 4:8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)
Jhn 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
Jhn 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
Jhn 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
Jhn 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

I don't believe God puts things in the Bible for no reason. Eventually everything will come to light.

You figure Son of David.. David come by way of Ruth a Moabites.. (Gentile)
Abraham's seed is not Just Isaac. Ishmael is firstborn. And was the promise.
Sarah gave Hagar to Abram to wife. Saying that Hagar's son would be her own.
But SHE denied HIM.

I don't care what Paul says...
See how he OMITTED the truth:

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

But who really said it?

Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Gen 21:1 0Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

And Again with Paul:
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

But God SAID:
Gen 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

The Bible talks a lot about Judah and Jerusalem..

Judah is the 3rd and last son of Leah. Leah is the daughter of Laban.
Laban: son of Bethuel, brother of Rebekah, and father of Leah and Rachel
Bethuel = "God destroys" or "man of God" or "dweller in God"

nephew of Abraham, son of Nahor by Milcah, father of Rebekah

And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.

Haran = "mountaineer"
youngest son of Terah, brother of Abraham, father of Lot, Milcah, and Iscah; born and died in Ur of the Chaldees

Lineage goes back to Shem:
Shem = "name"
the eldest son of Noah and progenitor of the Semitic tribes

which is interesting because Shem's name means Name which means "mark"
Like the one put on Cain's head.

shêm, shame; a primitive word [perhaps rather from H7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position; compare H8064]; an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality; by implication honor, authority, character:—+ base, (in-) fame(-ous), named(-d), renown, report.

I don't believe Jesus was a Jew. He was born under the law however, his Mother being of the Lineage of.. oh wait.. David.
Who is of the line of Ruth the Moabite..

Why you think they called Jesus a bastard?
He wasn't one of them.
But he came to call the faithful that were in Israel.. thus.. In Isaac shall thy seed be called.. come out of her my people..
The called out ones.
Jesus is of the Lineage of Ishmael Abraham's firstborn. The Ram caught in the thicket as a sacrifice for Abrahams other son.
Ishmael's Brother.

Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

Judah and Jerusalem.. Sisters/Brothers makes no difference. There is neither male or female.. they are interchangeable.
Hagar and Sarah ...
Hagar has been set free.. kind of like Esther vs. Vashti
But remember, God told her to submit herself to her mistress... and she obeyed.
Sarah Laughed.

He who mocks last mocks best.
Hugs

 

[farouk]

Gen 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20 And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.

You know the story about the woman at the well???
Watch:

Jhn 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
Jhn 4:8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)
Jhn 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
Jhn 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
Jhn 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
Jhn 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

I don't believe God puts things in the Bible for no reason. Eventually everything will come to light.

You figure Son of David.. David come by way of Ruth a Moabites.. (Gentile)
Abraham's seed is not Just Isaac. Ishmael is firstborn. And was the promise.
Sarah gave Hagar to Abram to wife. Saying that Hagar's son would be her own.
But SHE denied HIM.

I don't care what Paul says...
See how he OMITTED the truth:

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

But who really said it?

Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Gen 21:1 0Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

And Again with Paul:
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

But God SAID:
Gen 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

The Bible talks a lot about Judah and Jerusalem..

Judah is the 3rd and last son of Leah. Leah is the daughter of Laban.
Laban: son of Bethuel, brother of Rebekah, and father of Leah and Rachel
Bethuel = "God destroys" or "man of God" or "dweller in God"

nephew of Abraham, son of Nahor by Milcah, father of Rebekah

And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.

Haran = "mountaineer"
youngest son of Terah, brother of Abraham, father of Lot, Milcah, and Iscah; born and died in Ur of the Chaldees

Lineage goes back to Shem:
Shem = "name"
the eldest son of Noah and progenitor of the Semitic tribes

which is interesting because Shem's name means Name which means "mark"
Like the one put on Cain's head.

shêm, shame; a primitive word [perhaps rather from H7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position; compare H8064]; an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality; by implication honor, authority, character:—+ base, (in-) fame(-ous), named(-d), renown, report.

I don't believe Jesus was a Jew. He was born under the law however, his Mother being of the Lineage of.. oh wait.. David.
Who is of the line of Ruth the Moabite..

Why you think they called Jesus a bastard?
He wasn't one of them.
But he came to call the faithful that were in Israel.. thus.. In Isaac shall thy seed be called.. come out of her my people..
The called out ones.
Jesus is of the Lineage of Ishmael Abraham's firstborn. The Ram caught in the thicket as a sacrifice for Abrahams other son.
Ishmael's Brother.

Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

Judah and Jerusalem.. Sisters/Brothers makes no difference. There is neither male or female.. they are interchangeable.
Hagar and Sarah ...
Hagar has been set free.. kind of like Esther vs. Vashti
But remember, God told her to submit herself to her mistress... and she obeyed.
Sarah Laughed.

He who mocks last mocks best.
Hugs

@Ziggy It's been said, The best of men are only men at best...

 

[Ziggy]

@Ziggy It's been said, The best of men are only men at best...

Frankly I don't know what the big deal is...
today that is.
Maybe in Paul's day with Rome and all and all those Righteous Sadducees and Pharisees, one wouldn't want to rock the boat too much.
Paul did say.. he had meat to share but they couldn't bear it at that time.
Maybe today we can, and finally be willing to put the swords down and begin to plow again.
But if God laid the foundations in this here son, and others come and lay a foundation in that there son.
Maybe thats why there is so much division in the church.
Everybody building their own foundations.. and gospels.. just saying.