70th Week and Day of the Lord are separate events.

[CTK]

Sorry (The prince to come) is Daniel's (Little Horn) who will be a future literal human man, that will be present on this earth at the Lord's future second coming as you've been clearly shown

Jesus Is The Lord

I agree with you that the "prince who is to come" in chapter 9 is indeed the little horn, however, if you want to identify exactly who he is and when he comes you must study chapters 7, 8 and 11. God gives the time markers and the characteristics, attributes (negative) for this individual...... he is not an end time actor but continues until the end times.

 

[covenantee]

I agree with you that the "prince who is to come" in chapter 9 is indeed the little horn, however, if you want to identify exactly who he is and when he comes you must study chapters 7, 8 and 11. God gives the time markers and the characteristics, attributes (negative) for this individual...... he is not an end time actor but continues until the end times.

The Reformers identified Messiah as the Prince who came, and the little horn as the apostate papacy.

They got them right.

 

[CTK]

The Reformers identified Messiah as the Prince who came, and the little horn as the apostate papacy.

They got them right.

Well, I have already presented a ton of information regarding this “prince who is to come” … but everyone is entitled to their own interpretations. Nothing wrong with that….

 

[Truth7t7]

I just showed you the truth of how to properly understand Daniel 9:27 and you deny it. You have only yourself to blame.

(EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION)

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future" (The End)

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree with you that the "prince who is to come" in chapter 9 is indeed the little horn, however, if you want to identify exactly who he is and when he comes you must study chapters 7, 8 and 11. God gives the time markers and the characteristics, attributes (negative) for this individual...... he is not an end time actor but continues until the end times.

Answered In Post #324 Above

 

[CTK]

Answered In Post #324 Above

Thank you but that is not how I understood the verses in Daniel or in the NT… which is why we are all here discussing these verses.

But to discuss all of your interpretations mentioned in that post would require a significant amount of time and attention.

Daniel, IMO, is clearly the most difficult book in the Bible to unpack—- yet, most are more than comfortable reading many surface level interpretations that have been made during the past 200 years. And where most of “today’s accepted interpretations” are copied from earlier commentaries.

And even further, there usually is at least two sets of interpretations for most of the critical prophetic verses in Daniel - and even within those two groups of scholars there is rarely any consensus.

And with the exception of of ALL of chapter 11, the four verses in chapter 9 - 24-27 are the most misinterpreted.

So, you have claimed the little horn is future based, and I believe he has already arrived AND WILL CONTINUE until the end.

Do you agree that the identity and timing of the little horn can be found in Daniel 7?

 

[Truth7t7]

So, you have claimed the little horn is future based, and I believe he has already arrived AND WILL CONTINUE until the end.

Sounds like the standard reformed teaching that the RCC and the Popes have been a continous fulfillment?

Do you agree that the identity and timing of the little horn can be found in Daniel 7?

The scripture below teaches that (The Little Horn) will be present on this earth in a physical body that will be destroyed at the Lord's second coming in final judgement (The Books Were Opened)

The scripture below is in perfect agreement with Daniel 9:27 and the words (He Shall Make It Desolate, Even Until The Consummation) or (The Ultimate End)

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[CTK]

Sounds like the standard reformed teaching that the RCC and the Popes have been a continous fulfillment?

The scripture below teaches that (The Little Horn) will be present on this earth in a physical body that will be destroyed at the Lord's second coming in final judgement (The Books Were Opened)

The scripture below is in perfect agreement with Daniel 9:27 and the words (He Shall Make It Desolate, Even Until The Consummation) or (The Ultimate End)

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

If you do not mind, perhaps we can put 9:27 aside for right now. If we return to chapter 7 I would like to propose something to you for your consideration. And although you do not have to accept my interpretations on these topics, I can assure you that chapter 2, 7, 8, 9 and 11 are all connected / linked and speak as one consisetent series of prophetic messages -- and almost all them speak to the time period from 606 BC to 33/34 AD - the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. The chapter that addresses in detail the post cross period is chapter 11.


Regarding chapter 7, everyone views the first 14 verses in a chronological order. But Daniel is not written in a chronological manner in most of the Hebrew chapters or in chapter 2 or 7. Within these 14 verses, Daniel will discuss the four earthly kingdoms verses 1-8, and then he will discuss a heavenly scene, verses 9-10. The two heavenly verses reveal the scene in heaven that takes place when God, the Ancient of Days takes His seat and the Court is ready. But there is One person missing and that it critical.

Then, Daniel's vision returns to earth in verses 11 and 12 and speaks of the little horn, the 4th beast slain (pagan Rome) and the first 3 kingdoms lose their dominion but continue.

And finally, we return once again to the heavenly scene in verses 13-14 where the Son of Man (Jesus) comes to the Ancient of Days and is given dominion.

So, here is what is happening and these verses are not in chronological order ;;Daniel is separating the earthly events that will take place within the 4 kingdoms on earth. And while this is happening, God is setting up His heavenly Court. Everything is ready in the Courtroom but One person is still not there - It is Jesus who is at this time on the earth and He has yet to go to the cross.

Then. the scene shifts back to the earth and it is AFTER the cross because chapter 7 now reveals that the 10 toes are no longer hidden within the feet of the 4th kingdom but are now on the outside of the 4th kingdom. Secondly, we also see a new actor emerge after the cross identified as the little horn. So, now Daniel has shown us the earthly scene before and after the cross.

And then Daniel shows us the second heavenly scene in the Courtroom where Jesus comes to the Ancient of Days and is given the kingomd. This is because Jesus went to the cross and returned to His Father.

So all of these events, both earthly and heavely scenes take place at the time from 606 BC to the cross, and then the coming of the little horn after the cross. And you will also note the little horn and the 10 horns are shown to come ONLY after the cross BUT BEFORE 7:11 - which represent the destruction of pagan Rome in 476 AD.

Structure / Outline of Chapter 7​

I. Dream Sequence (The Main Facts) – Verses 1–14

Daniel receives a prophetic vision that parallels Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Chapter 2 but provides greater detail, particularly regarding the fourth kingdom and the transition from earthly to heavenly dominion.

A. Introduction to the Vision (Verse 1)

Verse 1: Daniel records the vision during the first year of Belshazzar, king of Babylon.​

B. The Earthly Kingdoms (Verses 2–6) – The First Three Beasts

Verse 2-3: The four winds stir the great sea, and four beasts emerge.​

​

Verse 4: First Beast (Lion with Eagle’s Wings) – Babylon​

​

Verse 5: Second Beast (Bear Raised on One Side) – Medo-Persia​

​

Verse 6: Third Beast (Leopard with Four Wings and Four Heads) – Greece​

C. The Fourth Beast and the Little Horn (Verses 7–8)

Verse 7: The Fourth Beast (Pagan Rome)​

Dreadful, terrible, and strong with iron teeth​

​

Devours and tramples all before it​

​

Has ten horns​

Verse 8: The Rise of the Little Horn (Papal Rome)​

A small horn arises among the ten​

​

Plucks out three horns by the roots​

​

Possesses eyes like a man and speaks great words​

D. The Heavenly Realm (Verses 9–10) – The Ancient of Days

Verse 9: The thrones are set, and the Ancient of Days (God) takes His seat.​

​

Verse 10:​

A river of fire flows before Him​

​

Thousands upon thousands stand before Him​

​

The books are opened – judgment begins​

​

E. Judgment of the Fourth Beast and Dominion of the Son of Man (Verses 11–14)

Verses 11–12 (Vision returns back to earthly scene):​

The little horn’s arrogance reaches its peak.​

​

The beast is slain, and its body destroyed.​

​

The first three kingdoms lose their dominion but continue for a time.​

Verses 13–14 (Vision returns again to heavenly scene after cross):

The Son of Man (Jesus) comes before the Ancient of Days​

​

He is given dominion, glory, and an everlasting kingdom​

​

All nations and peoples will serve Him​

 

[William Barton]

Not true! The coming 'prince' from the Hebrew is נָגִיד nâgîyd. The same Hebrew word also defines 'Messiah the Prince' of vs 25. If 'he' were some ordinary prince in vs 26 it would be translated from the Hebrew שַׂר sar not from נָגִיד nâgîyd. We find this throughout the book of Daniel, where prince is translated from שַׂר sar when spes

The

The Reformers identified Messiah as the Prince who came, and the little horn as the apostate papacy.

They got them right.

IMO:
o. "Coming prince" (Daniel 9:25 ) is Jesus; see Zechariah 9:9, John 12:14-15.

o "Little horn" (Daniel 7:8) is "Anti-Christ," where "anti" = "in place of," i.e. "usurper."

The Papacy eventually fomented a rebellion when the Pope declared himself "Vicar of Chris" (God tells Pope, Pope tell you).

 

[Truth7t7]

If you do not mind, perhaps we can put 9:27 aside for right now. If we return to chapter 7 I would like to propose something to you for your consideration. And although you do not have to accept my interpretations on these topics, I can assure you that chapter 2, 7, 8, 9 and 11 are all connected / linked and speak as one consisetent series of prophetic messages -- and almost all them speak to the time period from 606 BC to 33/34 AD - the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. The chapter that addresses in detail the post cross period is chapter 11.

It appears you Follow the standard reformed teachings, Antioch Epiphanies and the 33AD cross of Calvary, I Disagree

I clearly responded on my belief, Daniel's (Little Horn) is the very same future human man who will be present on earth until the Lord's second coming in the consummation (The End)

We Disagree, Thanks For The Response

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[CTK]

It appears you Follow the standard reformed teachings, Antioch Epiphanies and the 33AD cross of Calvary, I Disagree

I clearly responded on my belief, Daniel's (Little Horn) is the very same future human man who will be present on earth until the Lord's second coming in the consummation (The End)

We Disagree, Thanks For The Response

Jesus Is The Lord

You didn't even read it or took the time to consider what the verses speak to.. Nothing whatsoever is found in all of Daniel about Epiphanies. And I can assure you, there is absolutely nothing standard in these interpretations - you will not find them in any commentary. I don't believe I will be responding to your posts again.

 

[Truth7t7]

You didn't even read it or took the time to consider what the verses speak to.. Nothing whatsoever is found in all of Daniel about Epiphanies. And I can assure you, there is absolutely nothing standard in these interpretations - you will not find them in any commentary. I don't believe I will be responding to your posts again.

Thanks for your time

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

The

IMO:
o. "Coming prince" (Daniel 9:25 ) is Jesus; see Zechariah 9:9, John 12:14-15.

o "Little horn" (Daniel 7:8) is "Anti-Christ," where "anti" = "in place of," i.e. "usurper."

The Papacy eventually fomented a rebellion when the Pope declared himself "Vicar of Chris" (God tells Pope, Pope tell you).

Rome nor the Papacy has played any part in fulfillment of Daniel 7:8, you project the standard reformed eschatology in Rome and the Pope(s) being fulfillment

 

[covenantee]

The

IMO:
o. "Coming prince" (Daniel 9:25 ) is Jesus; see Zechariah 9:9, John 12:14-15.

o "Little horn" (Daniel 7:8) is "Anti-Christ," where "anti" = "in place of," i.e. "usurper."

The Papacy eventually fomented a rebellion when the Pope declared himself "Vicar of Chris" (God tells Pope, Pope tell you).

Exactly right!

Small correction - the coming prince is in daniel 9:26.