A Blood-Soaked Path Through History

[Truth7t7]

Excellent. You have clarified your position honestly ,
I can respect that. It opens the possibility to have a reasonable discussion as to whether your opinion is theologically sound.

For myself, my opinion is that a leader has an even greater responsibility to guard the spuritual well being of his people than their physical well being.

Nothing Personal Philip James, Just The Truth.

"The Pope Guarding Spiritual Well Being"?

The infallible leader that moved to protect the pedophile priest "Juan Barro Madrid", stating the people were speaking slander?

Don't worry, the Vatican is investigating itself, no conflict of interest there

NewYorkTimes

Pope Francis, After Criticism, Sends Sex Crimes Investigator to Chile

Pope Francis arriving to say Mass at Lobito Campos in Iquique, Chile, this month.LUCA ZENNARO/EUROPEAN PRESSPHOTO AGENCY
By Jason Horowitz

• Jan. 30, 2018

ROME — When it comes to sexual abuse in the Roman Catholic Church, supporters of Pope Francis are hoping that if indeed he was blind, now he sees.

Francis on Tuesday dispatched the Vatican’s leading sex crimes investigator to Chile, days after the pope’s vigorous, repeated and potentially disastrous defense of Bishop Juan Barros Madrid, who is accused of protecting the country’s most notorious pedophile priest.

“As a result of some information received recently regarding the case,” the Vatican said in a statement on Tuesday, the church will send to Chile the Maltese Archbishop Charles Scicluna, who has been called the Vatican’s Eliot Ness in fighting clerical sex abuse. There, the statement continued, he will “hear those who have expressed the desire to provide elements in their possession.”

By elements in their possession, the Vatican apparently means the testimony and painful stories of victims that the pope had previously dismissed as slanderous accusations.

Intelligencer
June 30, 2017 10:56 am

The Pope’s Pedophile?

Cardinal George Pell makes a statement at the Holy See press office, Vatican City, on June 29, 2017.

Well into Pope Francis’s pontificate, one of his closest aides, the third-highest official in the Catholic Church, Cardinal George Pell, has now been credibly accused of several acts of sexual assault, including one of rape.

 

[epostle1]

That is absolutely correct. And with no apologies for doing so. Who am I that I would dare promote myself as the infallible executor of judgement in matters pertaining to conscience? What right do I have to lord it over anothers conscience? We shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ, but none of us will be held accountable for others decisions when it comes to their personal relationship with God, and I will object to the day I die to any government agency, individual, be it priest pope or politician who would think that they have the right to dictate to me how, who, when, and why I should worship, or not worship, if I should so choose. Such issues lie between me and God and there is only one Mediator appointed to such a task...Jesus Christ the Righteous.

I get it. It should be "My Father, who is in heaven..." Not "OUR Father, who is in heaven..."
Who told you the Catholic Church lords over peoples consciences?
Surely, you are not that brainwashed by anti-Catholic stupidity to think the Church lords over and dictates.
Truth is as natural to our minds as oxygen is to our lungs and food is to our digestive system. It is a great mistake to regard the teaching of truth as an imposition. The Church does not, nor can she, “impose” truth.

Rather, she endeavors to propose truths to those who are disposed to receive them. The Vatican’s Declaration of Religious Liberty states that, “The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it wins over the mind with gentleness and power."

The Church as Guardian of the Truth and Teacher of the Word provides food for hungry minds. She does not impose the truth; no more than do Christians impose food on hungry bodies when they practice this corporeal act of mercy.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's relatively easy for anyone to deny the validity of another's evidence...or claim the lack thereof. YOU, Dead Bread, are living proof. Though the evidence is continually put before you of the blasphemous claims of the Whore of Babylon, the Antichrist of prophecy, you deny it.

We show you where Dignities and Duties of the Priest teaches that priests who officiate over the Eucharist should be considered "creator of his Creator", and yet you ignore this blasphemy.

We show you Jesus' prohibition, "Call no man father", which you deceptively downplay its use in Catholicism as a mere Biblically mannered term of endearment when you know full well the church considers priests and the pope as "vicars of Christ" - Christ's substitutes.

We show you that "there is one Mediator between God and man, the Man Christ Jesus", yet you refuse to denounce Catholic mediators, the rejection of which is considered by the RCC "heresy".

We show you that Catholicism claims the power to change God's law written with His own finger in stone and boasts evidence of that power by changing the Sabbath and you justify this by illegitimate extrapolation of Bible texts which speak of limited power granted to church leadership for the purpose discipline - which is neither corporal or capital punishment - the most severe being expulsion from church membership - NOT A PRONOUNCEMENT OF ETERNAL JUDGMENT WHICH PREROGATIVE BELONGS ONLY TO CHRIST - accompanied by tender, loving pleas for the offender to return to a life of surrender to Christ.

We show you the blasphemous claims found in RCC documents bearing the stamp of the Imprimatur which is Latin for "AIN'T NO HERESY IN HERE" such as.....

“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” - On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17​

.....and you refuse to denounce such blasphemies. Tell us, Dead Bread, is Papa Jorge the "Savior"? The "Everlasting Father"? The "Mighty God"? The "One Mediator"? Is he "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners"?

Why do you insist on defending the indefensible? Why do you seek to legitimize such blasphemous, Satanic "doctrines of devils"? What will it take for you to finally see that Papal claims to stand "in the place of Christ", "instead of Christ", "in behalf of Christ", "for Christ" is exactly what the Greek word "Antichristos" means - "Antichrist"?

Sooooo, you're saying that Ralph Woodrow is a liar - but Alexander Hislop wasn't??
Is THAT what you're saying??

 

[BreadOfLife]

The works of church historians are open for review. I've already directed you to Foxe's Book of Martyrs, by John Foxe - a former RCC apologist like you who once contended with the great Reformer William Tyndale over the supremacy of the laws of the pope over God's Law which left a righteously indignant Tyndale declaring:

"I defy the pope and all his laws. If God spare my life, erelong these years I'll cause a boy that driveth the plough to know more of the Scriptures than he doest."

Foxe eventually saw the light and abandoned the Dead Bread of the RCC for the True Bread of Life and wrote about many of the demonic Papal horrors of countless innocent Christian whose cries reached all the way back to Calvary. Won't you open your eyes, too?

No - you're not getting away with this.
YOU posted the following:
"The Papacy killed only thousands? This list which is but a partial account of the total number of casualties reports on millions, not thousands."

I challenged you to provide historical documentation to support these numbers - and you FAILED.
You are what we intelligent posters refer to as a "hit-and-run" attacker. You post ridiculous manure like the above claim - yet, when you are asked to substantiate it - you run like a chicken in a storm.

You are either going to substantiate your claim - or retract it.
In either case - I won't let up on you until you do . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Awaiting a reasoned response to this...but am not hopeful.

I've already addressed ALL of these points. However, since Phoneyman is a hit-and-run attacker - he ignores the answers and continues to post as if it is a one-way conversation.

 

[Truth7t7]

No - you're not getting away with this.
YOU posted the following:
"The Papacy killed only thousands? This list which is but a partial account of the total number of casualties reports on millions, not thousands."

I challenged you to provide historical documentation to support these numbers - and you FAILED.
You are what we intelligent posters refer to as a "hit-and-run" attacker. You post ridiculous manure like the above claim - yet, when you are asked to substantiate it - you run like a chicken in a storm.

You are either going to substantiate your claim - or retract it.
In either case - I won't let up on you

The Pope Is Currently dealing with his pedofile Chilean priest "Juan Madrid" and #3 In Power pedofile Cardinal "Pell", and recently apologizing for murder in Rawanda, and top it of with the 24 million indigenous in Mexico?

In the name of Jesus, not the savior I know!

THEGUARDIAN

Pope Francis asks for forgiveness for church's role in Rwanda genocide

Pontiff acknowledges some Catholic priests and nuns ‘succumbed to hatred and violence’ by taking part in 1994 killings
Mon 20 Mar 2017 11.18 EDT

Pope Francis has asked for forgiveness for the Catholic church’s role in the 1994 Rwandan genocide, in which 800,000 people were slaughtered in 100 days of violence. The “sins and failings of the church and its members” had “disfigured the face” of Catholicism, he said.

Telesur

Mexican Indigenous Ask Pope to Apologize for Mass Genocide
Published 7 February 2016

The Supreme Indigenous Council of Michoacan, Mexico, accused the Catholic Church of being complicit in the killing of over 24 million Indigenous people.
Some 30 Indigenous communities of Michoacan, Mexico, have released a statement demanding Pope Francis apologize for the genocide committed with the complicity of the Catholic Church against their people during the Spanish invasion of the Americas in the 16th century.

"For over 500 years, the original people of the Americas have been ransacked, robbed, murdered, exploited, discriminated and persecuted,” the Supreme Indigenous Council of Michoacan said in a statement.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Pope Is Currently dealing with his pedofile Chilean priest "Juad Madrid" and #3 In Power pedofile Cardinal "Pell", and recently apologizing for murder in Rawanda, and top it of with the 24 million indigenous in Mexico?
In the name of Jesus, not the savior I know!
THEGUARDIAN

Pope Francis asks for forgiveness for church's role in Rwanda genocide
Pontiff acknowledges some Catholic priests and nuns ‘succumbed to hatred and violence’ by taking part in 1994 killings
Mon 20 Mar 2017 11.18 EDT

Pope Francis has asked for forgiveness for the Catholic church’s role in the 1994 Rwandan genocide, in which 800,000 people were slaughtered in 100 days of violence. The “sins and failings of the church and its members” had “disfigured the face” of Catholicism, he said.

Telesur

Mexican Indigenous Ask Pope to Apologize for Mass Genocide
Published 7 February 2016

The Supreme Indigenous Council of Michoacan, Mexico, accused the Catholic Church of being complicit in the killing of over 24 million Indigenous people.
Some 30 Indigenous communities of Michoacan, Mexico, have released a statement demanding Pope Francis apologize for the genocide committed with the complicity of the Catholic Church against their people during the Spanish invasion of the Americas in the 16th century.

"For over 500 years, the original people of the Americas have been ransacked, robbed, murdered, exploited, discriminated and persecuted,” the Supreme Indigenous Council of Michoacan said in a statement.

Nice try - but anything that Spain did with the indigenous people of Mexico was the work of the kingdom of SPAIN - and not the Church.
The SAME goes for the Rwandan Genocide. This was a TRIBAL genocide - NOT a religious one.
NEITHER historical incident had anything to do with the Catholic Church.

Your posts are almost comical - if not so pathetically ignorant.
Do your homework, for crying out loud . . .

 

[Phoneman777]

You still can't validate your false histories with any scholarly rigor. Foxe's Book of Martyrs is a book written 500 years ago. I don't care if you choose an atheist historian, but you can't even do that much.

Satanic murderous actions of the Papacy is your nightmare world, it isn't real and never was, and the best you can do is cite a polemical book. What you need to do is find any modern scholar that says Fox's book is a reliable source. You can't. Mainly because it is not recognized as a reliable source. Of course, you ignore the horrors that the reformers inflicted on Catholics. I have documentation by Protestant and secular historians, but you will ignore it anyway.

You simply have no proof supporting your false histories. A 500 years old book written by a guy with an axe to grind is not proof.

To the contrary, the crimes of the Papacy are well documented, but what good is that to papists like you who continually reject any historical account that is unfavorable to it?

 

[Phoneman777]

Nice try - but anything that Spain did with the indigenous people of Mexico was the work of the kingdom of SPAIN - and not the Church.
The SAME goes for the Rwandan Genocide. This was a TRIBAL genocide - NOT a religious one.
NEITHER historical incident had anything to do with the Catholic Church.

Your posts are almost comical - if not so pathetically ignorant.
Do your homework, for crying out loud . . .

Dead Bread, are you a paid RCC revisionist historian, or are you a shill for the Papacy for free? Everyone knows that Papacy was directly involved with sparking the genocide, and the RCC admits to priests and even nuns that participated or encouraged murders.

 

[Phoneman777]

Sooooo, you're saying that Ralph Woodrow is a liar - but Alexander Hislop wasn't??
Is THAT what you're saying??

Dead Bread, do you believe the names, titles, attributes, and prerogatives of Christ belong to the pope, as the RCC teaches they do seeing that he is, in the opinion of the RCC, "head of the church"?

 

[Phoneman777]

No - you're not getting away with this.
YOU posted the following:
"The Papacy killed only thousands? This list which is but a partial account of the total number of casualties reports on millions, not thousands."

I challenged you to provide historical documentation to support these numbers - and you FAILED.
You are what we intelligent posters refer to as a "hit-and-run" attacker. You post ridiculous manure like the above claim - yet, when you are asked to substantiate it - you run like a chicken in a storm.

You are either going to substantiate your claim - or retract it.
In either case - I won't let up on you until you do . . .

Dead Bread, denying the historical evidence, which is scattered all across the Internet and the shelves of libraries everywhere, of the crimes of the Papacy is not the mark of "intelligence", it's the mark of ideological insanity, in this case, your blind allegiance to the Papal Antichrist. You are definitely a Jesuit - the mindless loyalty of violent Islamic fundamentalists is second only to that of your ilk.

 

[Phoneman777]

I've already addressed ALL of these points. However, since Phoneyman is a hit-and-run attacker - he ignores the answers and continues to post as if it is a one-way conversation.

You haven't addressed anything. You are a papist shill and no amount of proof, Scriptural or otherwise, is acceptable to a Jesuit.

 

[Truth7t7]

Nice try - but anything that Spain did with the indigenous people of Mexico was the work of the kingdom of SPAIN - and not the Church.
The SAME goes for the Rwandan Genocide. This was a TRIBAL genocide - NOT a religious one.
NEITHER historical incident had anything to do with the Catholic Church.

Your posts are almost comical - if not so pathetically ignorant.
Do your homework, for crying out loud . . .

All just a fantasy in denial of truth, Big Smiles!

THEGUARDIAN

Pope Francis asks for forgiveness for church's role in Rwanda genocide

Pontiff acknowledges some Catholic priests and nuns ‘succumbed to hatred and violence’ by taking part in 1994 killings
Mon 20 Mar 2017 11.18 EDT

Pope Francis has asked for forgiveness for the Catholic church’s role in the 1994 Rwandan genocide, in which 800,000 people were slaughtered in 100 days of violence. The “sins and failings of the church and its members” had “disfigured the face” of Catholicism, he said.

Telesur

Mexican Indigenous Ask Pope to Apologize for Mass Genocide
Published 7 February 2016

The Supreme Indigenous Council of Michoacan, Mexico, accused the Catholic Church of being complicit in the killing of over 24 million Indigenous people.
Some 30 Indigenous communities of Michoacan, Mexico, have released a statement demanding Pope Francis apologize for the genocide committed with the complicity of the Catholic Church against their people during the Spanish invasion of the Americas in the 16th century.

"For over 500 years, the original people of the Americas have been ransacked, robbed, murdered, exploited, discriminated and persecuted,” the Supreme Indigenous Council of Michoacan said in a statement.

 

[brakelite]

I've already addressed ALL of these points. However, since Phoneyman is a hit-and-run attacker - he ignores the answers and continues to post as if it is a one-way conversation.

Your "addressing" his posts consists primarily statements such as "that's lies"..."that's intellectually dishonest"..."wrong"...nonsense"..."that's not correct"...
For example..."The point of the original post is to blame everything on the Catholic CHURCH at large.

MANY of the things listed had NOTHING to do with the Church - but with the wills of individuals.
It is as stupid as blaming the Catholic Church for the Holocaust because Hitler was once a Catholic.

Secondly - YOUR use of "RCC" is offensively ignorant because you don't understand what it means.
What is "RCC" - and why do you blame all of the atrocities in the OP on this "RCC"??

Additionally - the Catholic Church hasn't labeled all Protestants as "heretics". Do you even understand what a "heretic" is in the eyes of the Church?

So, you see - much of the OP IS fictitious drivel and nonsense . . ."

Nothing but stonewalling...red herrings...abuse...and arrogance. Most of your posts are just as this one, often worse. They obfuscate, deny the obvious, reject clear evidence, avoid the issues, and double down on willful ignorance. Which particular Jesuitical school did you learn these methods of apologetics from?

 

[brakelite]

Nice try - but anything that Spain did with the indigenous people of Mexico was the work of the kingdom of SPAIN - and not the Church.
The SAME goes for the Rwandan Genocide. This was a TRIBAL genocide - NOT a religious one.
NEITHER historical incident had anything to do with the Catholic Church.

Your posts are almost comical - if not so pathetically ignorant.
Do your homework, for crying out loud . . .

Sort of like the tribal battles between Spain and England right? Like when the Spanish Armada sailed to dethrone that arch heretic Elizabeth 1 with the view to set up a Catholic monarch with the promise of 1,000,000 crowns to Philip by Pope Sixtus V on condition of a successful landing. Nothing to do with the church eh. Of course the same could be said of those nobles and villains who plotted to kill Elizabeth's nephew, the evil James 1 who sponsored the KJV translation of the Bible. The fact that Guy Fawkes and his friends were Catholic, and James and the government Protestants, was entirely coincidental right? Nothing to do with the church. All purely political, and the sole responsibility belonging to individual self-willed fanatics with misplaced loyalties. God forbid that the RCC should even dream of uniting with the state in establishing church goals and ambitions! No such concept could be further from the truth. The church a political minded entity that would dare to use political and worldly ploys to advance spiritual goals? Never! People who think such things are no more than conspiracy theorists and history revisionists. Liars, charlatans, who should have done the homework when attending school. These same folk like to blame the church on other wars also. Like the 300 years feud in Ireland that even in our lifetime cost hundreds of lives. Like the ongoing family arguments in the former Yugoslavia when the Ustasi led by that Catholic (ooops) Pavelic with the support of Cardinal Stepinac controlled Croatia and incited hatred and persecution against the Moslems, Orthodox Serbs and Jews. Tribalism. Nothing to do with the church.

 

[epostle1]

We don't deny crimes that can be proven, but you don't prove or document anything. Popes have apologized for bad things that happened centuries ago on numerous occasions, but that's not good enough for you. You rant hate and lies and pretend they are documented. For the 10th time, where is your evidence? How can I reject what you are unable to give?
You are so sick, you probably find this entertaining:

So you remain angry because you never got your family dysfunction issues resolved, and to this day you blame everything on the Church. Projection and displacement.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dead Bread, are you a paid RCC revisionist historian, or are you a shill for the Papacy for free? Everyone knows that Papacy was directly involved with sparking the genocide, and the RCC admits to priests and even nuns that participated or encouraged murders.

"Everyone" knows?? Really??
Then this should be EASY for you to substantiate.

Show me some documented proof that the POPE "sparked" the Rwandan Genocide.
Show me some documented proof that the POPE sparked "millions" of murders in Mexico.

I can't WAIT to read your historically-researched response . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dead Bread, do you believe the names, titles, attributes, and prerogatives of Christ belong to the pope, as the RCC teaches they do seeing that he is, in the opinion of the RCC, "head of the church"?

Phoney -
Here are the official titles of the Pope:
- Bishop of Rome
- Vicar of Jesus Christ
- Successor of the Prince of the Apostles
- Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church
- Primate of Italy
- Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province
- Sovereign of the Vatican City State
- Servant of the servants of God

If YOU have any other titles - then YOU made them up.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your "addressing" his posts consists primarily statements such as "that's lies"..."that's intellectually dishonest"..."wrong"...nonsense"..."that's not correct"...
For example...
Nothing but stonewalling...red herrings...abuse...and arrogance. Most of your posts are just as this one, often worse. They obfuscate, deny the obvious, reject clear evidence, avoid the issues, and double down on willful ignorance. Which particular Jesuitical school did you learn these methods of apologetics from?

When the OP is predicated on lies, half-truths and other innuendo - WHY would you expect anything else??
I have absolutely NO problem discussing the Catholic Church's history - warts and all - IF it is an honest, 2-way conversation.

If it's just another anti-Catholic kangaroo court - then all you'll get from me is a challenge to PROVE your asinine charges.

 

[BreadOfLife]

To the contrary, the crimes of the Papacy are well documented, but what good is that to papists like you who continually reject any historical account that is unfavorable to it?

And you have YET to list any . . .