A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

[justbyfaith]

elohim is a heavenly being, there are many of them in the heavens. the Heavenly Father is an elohim, but not all elohim are the Heavenly Father.

The heavenly Father is the eternal Spirit who dwells in all of His fulness in each one of the aforementioned Elohim.

 

[jaybird]

How did angels destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?

Did they fly in outer space and direct the meteors in outer space so that they would fall on Sodom and Gomorrah?

Do you think that it was the same angels who spoke to Lot and led him out of Sodom that did this?

That would be some fast flying!

And they also would have had to have done this many years in advance in order for the meteors to reach Sodom and Gomorrah at just the right time.

But they said, "We will destroy this city" so they were going to do it in the future. They didn't say, "we have sent destruction on this city" which would have been more accurate if the destruction were accomplished by only a few angels rather than God.

I will say that God (Elohim) destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The angelic heavenly host; the whole number of which equals the host of heaven which is considered to be God in holy scripture; while the one true God is the eternal Spirit that dwells in all of his fulness in each member of the those who are included in the host of heaven.

i have no idea how they destroyed sodom as i wasnt a witness to the event, i am only passing the info to you from the bible where the angels say they are going to destroy sodom.

The heavenly Father is the eternal Spirit who dwells in all of His fulness in each one of the aforementioned Elohim.

im sure part of Him is in them as He created them. none the less there are many of them yet only one Most High.

 

[justbyfaith]

i have no idea how they destroyed sodom as i wasnt a witness to the event, i am only passing the info to you from the bible where the angels say they are going to destroy sodom.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed when the LORD rained down fire and brimstone down on them from from the LORD out of heaven (Genesis 19:24).

im sure part of Him is in them as He created them. none the less there are many of them yet only one Most High.

The Most High, is He an angel? or, is He the Spirit that dwells in every angel and gives every angel life?

I believe that He is the latter.

While, in Jesus Christ all the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwells through that very Spirit.

And, He is also the source of the Spirit for those who are born after Him. For, He gave up His Spirit to the Father in Luke 23:46 and the very same Spirit went from Jesus Christ to all who would believe on Him.

He is the chief cornerstone of the Elohim...He is the original prototype for all who will come to faith in Him (see Greek rendering of "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15).

Colossians 1 :: King James Version (KJV)

 

[jaybird]

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed when the LORD rained down fire and brimstone down on them from from the LORD out of heaven (Genesis 19:24).

yeah we all get that, no one is questioning it, its that part of the bible that says angels did it that we are talking about.

The Most High, is He an angel? or, is He the Spirit that dwells in every angel and gives every angel life?

i am not aware of anyone that thinks the Almighty, creator of all things, is an angel.

While, in Jesus Christ all the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwells through that very Spirit.

this is one of those passages that trinns love to quote, it simply means Jesus was full of the spirit. think of scooping a cup of water out of the ocean, the cup is full, its 100% ocean water, but you still have the ocean the water came from.[/QUOTE]

 

[jaybird]

I did not answer the question "Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?" as it was unnecessary,
no you didnt answer because your claiming angels create on their own, act on their own, and the sodom example proves that wrong.

but more importantly, I did not run away from it, because I explained why the answer was an insufficient comparison to Gen. 1:26-27, and thus irrelevant.

no you didnt explain nor refute anything, you went right back to the Gen passage and made the exact same statement that you made before i even gave the sodom example.

As for the "other question," it was the same question rephrased.

no the first question was who, the second was how.

I asked Wrangler, "Do you understand water (singular) exists in the following states: liquid, solid, and gas (vapor)?"

In reply, he said, "Oh boy, not this tired old flawed analogy. There are 5 states of matter. God must be a pentagonal being, right?" His "answer" was stating there are five states of matter in an effort to twist the language around my question and not answer regarding the states of water itself.

In reply, I said, "There are four natural states of matter (the fifth [Bose-Einstein condensate] is man-made), and water can only technically exist in three of those states, because if it heats up to the point of becoming plasma it is no longer water," then I asked, "Do you now understand water (singular) exists in the following states: liquid, solid, and gas (vapor)?"

In reply, he said, "I understand you are desperate to support a flawed doctrine," which obviously did not answer the question.

In reply, I asked, "Do you understand water (singular) exists in the following states: liquid, solid, and gas (vapor)? Or, do you refuse to answer for the third time?"

In reply, he said, "Again, I've answered this question and included a link on how there are not 3 states of matter but 5. For reasons that are all your own, you seem to deny water is matter." So, he repeated his initial "answer," which I already addressed, as well as tried to twist my position by saying I denied water is matter.

In reply, I said, "I replied to this yesterday and you did not address it (#921). I said, 'There are four natural states of matter (the fifth [Bose-Einstein condensate] is man-made), and water can only technically exist in three of those states, because if it heats up to the point of becoming plasma it is no longer water.' Furthermore, notice I never denied water is matter. Do you understand water (singular) exists in the following states: liquid, solid, and gas (vapor)? Or, do you refuse to answer for the fourth time?"

In reply, he said, "I'm just going to put you on ignore."

In summary, instead of answering my grade school science question, he tried to keep distracting from it until all he could do was put me on ignore. I asked you the same question in another thread, and you did not answer it either, nor any of the questions in post #954.

i dont know what he ws thinking, but for me i would see this for what it is, it has nothing to do with anything, water in different states, im a man father and husband, these word game semantics dont work. we learn this when we are children, i didnt take the cookie my hand did.
yes i am a father and a son but i am not my own son. and one would have to be pretty brainwashed to believe such things.

 

[Wrangler]

You are wrong. Elohim is not the word for God. From Who ‘the Elohim’ were?

For the post-exilic jews the ELOHIM (i.e. God) was only JWHW.

Now we turn to Genesis 1:26-27:

V.26 Elohim (= YHWH Elohim tsebaot = God, the Lord of hosts) said:

Let us make man in our image, after our likeness […]
v.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

If Elohim is an abbreviation of the oldest name – i.e. God the Lord of hosts – then the plural is perfectly legitimate. So God or gods created man? Since YHWH is God of the hosts – i.e. of the angels – he speaks with his heavenly court before to create the most important living being. Moreover, the hebrew verb AMAR (i.e. “to say”) means also “to thunk”.

When God actually creates man – see v. 27 – is found only the singular of BARA (= God created), as well as the singular pronoun attached to the term image (= his own image). Next time we will see other cases where Elohim means ‘divine beings’.​

 

[Wrangler]

elohim is a heavenly being, there are many of them in the heavens. the Heavenly Father is an elohim, but not all elohim are the Heavenly Father.

The only reason trinitarians deny this is because it goes against their idolatry.

 

[justbyfaith]

Elohim is not the word for God.

Deuteronomy 6 :: King James Version (KJV)

 

[justbyfaith]

this is one of those passages that trinns love to quote, it simply means Jesus was full of the spirit. think of scooping a cup of water out of the ocean, the cup is full, its 100% ocean water, but you still have the ocean the water came from.

In Colossians 2:9, if God is likened to the ocean, Jesus is filled with all the fulness of the ocean in condensed form....the whole ocean fills the body of Christ...all of God.

 

[Wrangler]

Deuteronomy 6 :: King James Version (KJV)

KJV is the most error prone version around. Elohim means heavenly beings. While God is a heavenly being, not all heavenly beings are the one and only God.

 

[Wrangler]

In Colossians 2:9, if God is likened to the ocean, Jesus is filled with all the fulness of the ocean in condensed form....the whole ocean fills the body of Christ...all of God.

No. God is in his children - all his children. None of God's children are God.

In my devotional reading today I came across this gem:
32 He will be great, he will be called Son of Ha‘Elyon. Adonai, God, will give him the throne of his forefather David;
Luke 1:32 (Complete Jewish Bible)

God, in his unitarian nature, will give the throne to Jesus. This is not the language in describing God incarnate.

 

[justbyfaith]

KJV is the most error prone version around. Elohim means heavenly beings. While God is a heavenly being, not all heavenly beings are the one and only God.

I believe that it is very likely true that every translation translates the Hebrew word "Elohim" in Deuteronomy 6:4 as "God".

 

[justbyfaith]

God, in his unitarian nature, will give the throne to Jesus.

How does Jesus sit on the very throne of God (Revelation 3:21) if He is not God?

 

[Wrangler]

One of the very best anti-trinitarian verses in an anti-trinitarian book, written 100% by anti-trinitarians.

(A:vi, S: v) 4 “Sh’ma, Yisra’el! Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai echad [Hear, Isra’el! Adonai our God, Adonai is one]
Deuteronomy 6:4 (Complete Jewish Bible)

 

[Wrangler]

How does Jesus sit on the very throne of God (Revelation 3:21) if He is not God?

All God's children sit on God's throne. How does Jesus sit at the right hand of God if he were God? Romans 8:34

 

[jaybird]

In Colossians 2:9, if God is likened to the ocean, Jesus is filled with all the fulness of the ocean in condensed form....the whole ocean fills the body of Christ...all of God.

you think the entire essence of the Most High,which is infinite, the one who says His glory can not be contained in this world, fits into the physical temporary body of a human.
i guess some will say anything, no matter how absurd, when they are desperate to support a doctrine with as many holes in it as the trinity.

 

[jaybird]

All God's children sit on God's throne. How does Jesus sit at the right hand of God if he were God? Romans 8:34

apparently He sits at His own right hand however that works.
the apostles wanted to sit at Jesus left hand, guess that meant they thought they were the Most High as well?

 

[Wrangler]

you think the entire essence of the Most High,which is infinite, the one who says His glory can not be contained in this world, fits into the physical temporary body of a human.
i guess some will say anything, no matter how absurd, when they are desperate to support a doctrine with as many holes in it as the trinity.

You said it well a few posts ago; the trinity is self-contradictory. 1 = 1; 3 = 3; 1 = 3. Mysticism and dualism.

 

[Wrangler]

apparently He sits at His own right hand however that works.
the apostles wanted to sit at Jesus left hand, guess that meant they thought they were the Most High as well?

No! That only works for one of God's children - for no apparent reason. Like lord Jesus means he's God but all the other lord's in the Bible don't. Again, for no apparent reason.

 

[justbyfaith]

All God's children sit on God's throne. How does Jesus sit at the right hand of God if he were God? Romans 8:34

Because He is a distinct Person from the Father.

The Father stayed behind in eternity while also descending to take on an added nature of human flesh. I have expounded on what I mean by this elsewhere.

But I will say here again that if anyone dwells in eternity, by nature of what eternity is, they are there eternally; and therefore the Father would not vacate eternity when He descends to take on an added nature of humanity to become the Son.