A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

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101G

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well let us help you out, listen this is the "LORD" speaking, all caps, Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

well tell us JBF, when was the "LORD", all caps was pierced? is the "Lord" a separate and distinct person who was also pierced?. well.........

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

TheslightestID

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I have never said such things.

My position is that God, who is Spirit, became a Man (John 1:1-3, John 1:14).

If God became a man, why did he call the man his son, and not just tell them he was God ?

Can you please give us some biblical reference that states God became his own son, or he became a man?
 

justbyfaith

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"LORD" = Almighty,

"Lord" cap "L" only = Almighty

NOW JBF, are you saying that the LORD Almighty is distinct from the Lord Almighty. yes or No?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Not exactly.

Both Jesus and the Father are "the LORD" and "the Lord" from my perspective.

Jesus is only distinct from the Father in that He is come in human flesh.

This is not something that you deny, is it?

If God became a man, why did he call the man his son, and not just tell them he was God ?

Jesus is the Son in that He is come in human flesh.

Can you please give us some biblical reference that states God became his own son, or he became a man?

Sure.

John 1:1-3 (KJV), John 1:14 (kjv).
 

101G

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Both Jesus and the Father are "the LORD" and "the Lord" from my perspective.

Jesus is only distinct from the Father in that He is come in human flesh.

This is not something that you deny, is it?
BOTH? BOTH? are the LORD, well not ACCORDING to bible, listen, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

so the bible contridict your assessment.... there is only ONE LORD, try again.


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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

justbyfaith

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BOTH? BOTH? are the LORD, well not ACCORDING to bible, listen, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

so the bible contridict your assessment.... there is only ONE LORD, try again.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Of course He is one Lord; they are the same Spirit and therefore the same Person.

The only distinction is that Jesus Christ (the Son) is come in the flesh.

You don't deny that, do you?
 

sho

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Yeshua - to deliver; to rescue
2424 Iēsoús – Jesus, the transliteration of the Hebrew term, 3091 /Lṓt ("Yehoshua"/Jehoshua, contracted to "Joshua") which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation"). Strong's Greek: 2424. Ἰησοῦς (Iésous) -- Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr.

But that's not all. YHWH consists of the prefix Y which means "HE" and the verb HWH which means "IS". YHWH means "HE IS". So the name Jesus means "He is the savior". Everyone who pronounces the name Jesus testifies that Jesus is Yahweh. He is He.
 

jaybird

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2424 Iēsoús – Jesus, the transliteration of the Hebrew term, 3091 /Lṓt ("Yehoshua"/Jehoshua, contracted to "Joshua") which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation"). Strong's Greek: 2424. Ἰησοῦς (Iésous) -- Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr.

But that's not all. YHWH consists of the prefix Y which means "HE" and the verb HWH which means "IS". YHWH means "HE IS". So the name Jesus means "He is the savior". Everyone who pronounces the name Jesus testifies that Jesus is Yahweh. He is He.
And once again, I explained why this doesn't work but it's in one ear and out the other.
Another confusing thing about you guys is how did you learn these things to begin with when you don't listen to anything you're being told?
I was taught all these things just as you were but one day I decided I want to test these ideas for myself, some, like the trinity, did not check out against scripture.
When I learn things I look at all view points and make a decision. You guys don't seem to do this, you see one side of the coin, and only that side, and everytime the other side is shown you act as if it's not there, that's not truth, that's biased.
 

101G

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Of course He is one Lord; they are the same Spirit and therefore the same Person.

The only distinction is that Jesus Christ (the Son) is come in the flesh.

You don't deny that, do you?
GINOLJC, to all,
first thanks for the reply, second, if it's the same Person, then it was the same person who came in flesh.... Hello, heLLO, HELLO. now you are going to have to explain how the same Person, who is the same Spirit is in any distinction from his OWNself? remember it's the Same ONE PERSON

for Philippians 2:6 states, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
listen to what that verse said JBF. equal "WITH", not equal "TO". and now you have a problem, because there is no one, or any... "PERSON" that is equal "TO" God who is the Spirit, in, or out of that flesh. so that eliminates anyone outside of HIM, HIM, HIM, the Spirit, who is LORD, whom you calls God. my God can you see that?. so that means he is and must be of himself. BINGO, lets explain.

listen, if someone else is equal "to" JBF, then that person is NOT JBF..... agree. but remember JESUS is equal "with", the Spirit we call God, and as you said, is the same PERSON, (which is correct). now notice God the Spirit said, there is no one EQUAL to HIM, HIM, who is the only Single person mention. if a single person, (which he is), then that eliminates any other PERSON outside of HIMSELF who is equal "TO" him, agree?.
listen, Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One." or Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?"

see those "To" in those verses. no one is EQUAL "TO" God, and God makes it clear that there is no one "BESIDE" him, him, either, listen, Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

if God don't know any how can you? now notice that word "BESIDE" means, 1. At the side of a person or thing. (Well that just eliminated anyone sitting next to anyone). 2. in addition to; apart from. BINGO, in addition to; apart from? that killed any distinction, and it killed any separation of Persons. so your theory is JUST THAT'S A THEORY, which you even admit that you cannot explain, but we will.

if the Holy Ghost guided you into this shifted thing and didn't give you his wisdom in it to understand, then God who is the Spirit, didn't give it to you, (without explination).

see JBF, God is the EQUAL "SHARE" or the diversity of himself in flesh, scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." see that word "OFFSPRING" it is the Greek term, G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

KIN? yes, Like in KINSMAN REDEEMER, God himself in flesh, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."
God'S own ARM in flesh is him, God himself, as the equal "share"/Diversity/Offspring of his OWNself in flesh, (not a separate Person). and the Root here is God not in Flesh. this is the same one person in eternity, and in Intrinsic Spatial at the same time. scripture, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

My God is this too hard to understand? while in flesh on EARTH, (God, the Spirit, Diversified in Body was on earth), at the same time he, the Spirit, in heaven/eternity, at the same time. now if this is what you are trying to say, and cannot explain, this "shifted" thing?, well your shifted thing is nothing but "Diversified Oneness". not oneness as the UPC teaches, but DIVERSIFIED ONENESS that the Holy Ghost teaches. lets go to work.

see JBF, what you was trying to describe in shifted is nothing but the "diversity" of the Godhead. but where you ERROR at is in distinction. in flesh or out of flesh did you know that God already had flesh before any of US came into existence?. why do you think we're HIS, HIS, ... IMAGE. don't you know that in order to have an IMAGE, one must first have a SOURCE for the image to exist, or be MADE?. My God man think for a second.

if you take a picture, and NO ONE IS ON THE PICTURE, what do that means? answer, #1. that no no existed... right... or we just cannot see the person.... yet, or the picture has not yet developed, (smile). well the picture was developed thousand of years later, because he who is invisible, did not developed his picture, or MANIFESTED himself until the fulness of time. but we see his IMAGE in US. scripture, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." (Who is the them JBF? answer, manKIND... the BOTH that you cannot explain, the ANOTHER)
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"BINGO.

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made". WHAT THINGS WAS MADE JBF?... answer, US HIS OWN IMAGE.

that's how I know that God is ONE PERSON only, and that he was alone at Genesis 1:26 when he mad the "ANOTHER of himself in IMAGE, and why Paul said in, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." that word figure is the PICTURE developed of him to come.

you see JBF, let us put it in Layman's Terms for you to understand. God took at PICTURE of himself before he created anything, and developed it at John 1:1 or when Mary brought forth the child into the world, and grew up at 30, and was anointed at his baptism. that's the portrait of God in Flesh... as a MAN, supportive scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" (this is the picture taken before anything was made, a picture of the Spirit, (UNSEEN), as per Romans 1:20, the invisible ONE), and Developed, Manifested,as
Philippians 2:7 here states, "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" (that's God in Flesh, the Picture, manifested/developed, what was not seen before anything was created, is now developed/Manifested, IN FLESH for all to see)
Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." (THE LAMB, NOTICE, not the Lamb of God... :D because the Lamb of God was to "COME", man this is too easy.), and here's that death before the word was made. 1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"
1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," (there is that PICTURE taken before the beginning of the heavens and the earth. and now devbeloped in these last time for us. :p

now, let's back this up, Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." did you get that JBF.

NOW, another revelation of the BOTH. did you notice that Jesus is both the Lamb, and the lamb of God.... (smile)..lol.... :eek: YIKES!. see any distiction? well the Lamb of God have blood......... :D and the Lamb don't ....... that's the only distinction, (which is not a distinction). BINGO. and that distinction is not in person, but in flesh, with blood, which is an addition, and not a distinction. (that's for another topic).

you see JBF, I can explain the Father, and the Son so many ways in diversity. it makes no different which scripture you get concering the Godhead, diversity explain them all. so when you and many say, "oh the Godhead is a mystery", I know you're lying, because the bible don't lie, and the knowledge of the Godhead is RIGHT THERE IN YOUR BIBLE.

so, before you go deeper into a lie, I'm asking you to reconsider what I have posted, read this post again. the Lord Jesus have made it as plain as one need to understand him. so please re-consider what you have said and what what was posted here.

there is so much to know and understand of god and his state of being the "diversfified" one God.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

jaybird

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Of course He is one Lord; they are the same Spirit and therefore the same Person.

The only distinction is that Jesus Christ (the Son) is come in the flesh.

You don't deny that, do you?
If same person how is He equal to himself?
 

101G

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If same person how is He equal to himself?
he's the equal "share of himself" in flesh...... Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

Form here is Nature,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

now Jaybird, tell us is there two "Spirit", if you say that the Son, (one Spirit., here on earth), here in Philippians 2:6 and the Father, (one and a separate, Spirit, in heaven), is there two Spirits?... well

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

jaybird

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he's the equal "share of himself" in flesh...... Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

Form here is Nature,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

now Jaybird, tell us is there two "Spirit", if you say that the Son, (one Spirit., here on earth), here in Philippians 2:6 and the Father, (one and a separate, Spirit, in heaven), is there two Spirits?... well

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

no, an equal share of yourself is not a real thing. if one thing is equal to another you have two independent things.

spirit is the Most High, IMO its when He acts in this world, He doesnt act in His true form, his true form would be like a 4 dimensional being acting in a three dimensional world, the people of that world would not have a way to acknowledge this reality.
its not a person, if it was another independent person then the spirit Most High should be the Father of Jesus. Jesus talked about His Father quite often, more times than i can count, and it was never the spirit.
 

101G

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no, an equal share of yourself is not a real thing.
I did not say me or any human, but God

spirit is the Most High, IMO its when He acts in this world, He doesnt act in His true form, his true form would be like a 4 dimensional being acting in a three dimensional world, the people of that world would not have a way to acknowledge this reality.
I didn't ask for your opinion, I asked, "tell us is there two "Spirit", if you say that the Son, (one Spirit., here on earth), here in Philippians 2:6 and the Father, (one and a separate, Spirit, in heaven), is there two Spirits?... well

your answer please... with scripture.

its not a person, if it was another independent person then the spirit Most High should be the Father of Jesus. Jesus talked about His Father quite often, more times than i can count, and it was never the spirit.
well if true just answer the question above.... with scripture.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
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101G

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this is why there are many division in christianity, opinions. everybody want to insert their OWN opinion, not what the scripture say, but their own opinion. well it don't work like that. 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

this is the problem, peoples private interpretation.

if one's doctrine and belifs are bible based, then it's of God. else it's not of God, but of the devil.

people please refraim from you (IMHO).

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

justbyfaith

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now you are going to have to explain how the same Person, who is the same Spirit is in any distinction from his OWNself?

Because the same Spirit exists in eternity and also exists in time indwelling human flesh.

Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

if God don't know any how can you? now notice that word "BESIDE" means, 1. At the side of a person or thing.

See John 1:1. Since the Word was "with" God, was He beside Him?

that killed any distinction, and it killed any separation of Persons.

It killed separation, not distinction, in my mind.

God'S own ARM in flesh is him, God himself, as the equal "share"/Diversity/Offspring of his OWNself in flesh,

Jesus is not only the arm of God. He is all of God. In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead in bodily form (Colossians 2:9).

(not a separate Person).

Correct. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not separate, but distinct.

and in Intrinsic Spatial

That is what I mean by "shifted"

My God is this too hard to understand? while in flesh on EARTH, (God, the Spirit, Diversified in Body was on earth), at the same time he, the Spirit, in heaven/eternity, at the same time. now if this is what you are trying to say, and cannot explain, this "shifted" thing?, well your shifted thing is nothing but "Diversified Oneness". not oneness as the UPC teaches, but DIVERSIFIED ONENESS that the Holy Ghost teaches. lets go to work.

Yes, we are very close in theology, except I put my understanding in Trinitarian terms so that those who have a view to orthodoxy will accept this doctrine.

but where you ERROR at is in distinction.

I don't think so, see 1 Corinthians 9:22.

If same person how is He equal to himself?

If He is the same Person how is He not equal to Himself?
 

101G

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first thanks for the reply, second, lets take this one point at at a time.....
Because the same Spirit exists in eternity and also exists in time indwelling human flesh.
ok, let's examine this,
Romans 8:10 "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."

Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

if Jesus is the same Spirit, and died, tell us how much of the Spirit died from that flesh, in order for the rest of the Spirit to raised him from the dead?…..well

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
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jaybird

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I did not say me or any human, but God
i am sure the wisdom of the Most High is enough make our heads explode, but like i was saying to the other guy, these teachings are written to teach humans in our own understanding. if someone was teaching a group and they said said they "i am equal to myself" we would think they had mental issues.


I didn't ask for your opinion, I asked, "tell us is there two "Spirit", if you say that the Son, (one Spirit., here on earth), here in Philippians 2:6 and the Father, (one and a separate, Spirit, in heaven), is there two Spirits?... well

your answer please... with scripture.
the spirit is the Most High, there is only one Most High, He is one. He can put His spirit into as many as He wants. if He puts His spirit into 100 people do you think there are now 100 Most High?


well if true just answer the question above.... with scripture.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
there is no "if" , the scriptures say the spirit went to Mary, and she was pregnant with Jesus. and Jesus never claims the spirit Most High is His Father, its always the Father.

there are so many great men throughout the bible, Enoch the initiator, Moses the Lords favorite, Elijah, his name speaks for itself, Samuel, my personal favorite. the bible calls these guys "men of G-D" this title meant something, and there are very few in this group. yet not one of these guys teaches the trinity, its very difficult for me to believe that these guys just didnt get it, and all thee years later these guys in rome, mostly concerned with political ambition and hunting heretics, these are the ones that are gonna lead us to the "real" truth.
 

TheslightestID

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Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."
Isaiah 6:2 "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly."
Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory."
Isaiah 6:4 "And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke."


now this,

John 12:37 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:"
John 12:38 "That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" (Isaiah chapter 53)
John 12:39 "Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,"
John 12:40 "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
John 12:41 "These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him."

is this the same person in John 12 here the Lord Jesus who Isaiah saw form chapter 6 onward? ....... YES.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Those seem to be talking about the lord, as in Jesus. Not sure if that was your intention or not, you weren't clear on here you were headed.
 

TheslightestID

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Jesus is the Son in that He is come in human flesh

I understood that Jesus was conceived with the seed if God the father and Mary as the mother (God the "father", see how well that fits here) making him the son of God. I mean the bible kind of refers to Jesus as the son of God on many occassions? :) Are you not aware of that?

Jesus has also been referred to as the son of man, right in line with being born of Mary with the seed of God.