It proves that your man-made opinion that you wrote in your #70 post was wrong , because the Holy Spirit can come upon or into a person ,both meaning the same thing. All early Christians including those that walked and talked directly to Jesus and His Apostles never held ideas like you have dreamed up.Learn to interpret the bible as it was intended. Take heed to what St. Jerome once penned , which was ; " To be ignorant of Scripture is to be ignorant of Christ ".God Bless
A closer look at "baptizo" (to baptize)
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It proves that your man-made opinion that you wrote in your #70 post was wrong , because the Holy Spirit can come upon or into a person ,both meaning the same thing. All early Christians including those that walked and talked directly to Jesus and His Apostles never held ideas like you have dreamed up.Learn to interpret the bible as it was intended. Take heed to what St. Jerome once penned , which was ; " To be ignorant of Scripture is to be ignorant of Christ ".God Bless
Jesus said -
In my name you shall cast out devils and speak with new tongues...
If you don't do that then you are both ignorant and rebellious.
JLB
No other Church has the authority and power from Jesus as does His Catholic Church in casting out devils as in the exorcisms the Catholic priests perform after Protestant ministers from all denominations of Protestantism fail in their effort to cast out demons. Only the Catholic priests can perform successful exorcisms.
The Bible warned us this would happen. Paul told his young protégé, Timothy, "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths" (2 Tim. 4:3–4).
Both your Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart were two of your former Pentecostal pastors that also claim that they could cast out demons and speak in tongues , you and many others of your ilk follow these types of false teachers, [ not ordained the Bible way ] just as St. Paul spoke those words above to St. Timothy.
1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
Catholicism is the false church, which is described as the whore of Babylon. Catholic priest's no more cast out devils than the man in the moon.
The worship of Mary, worship of idols, speaking to the dead, which is necromancy as well as paganism.
Catholicism is a cult. They forbid the priest's to marry.
We have been made priest's of God. No man needs to go through a priest.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
The Roman Catholic Church is The whore of Babylon. Turn away from it lest you partake of her judgement.
3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement. 7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
The Vatican sits on the seven hills of Rome and is the richest nation/state in the world. A Babylonian sun god obelisk is their monument to your god.
JLB
You're the one who is ignorant. Goodbye and God bless. I've had enough of you!
Do you know that ... historically, man has always been a spiritual idiot?
You are a total and absolute moron, spiritually! Go back to your RCC where you belong.
If you're allowed to post your moronic stuff here, I should be allowed to speak the spiritual truth (in red).
JLB, you won't find the truth about Christ's Catholic Church by reading your comic books.Jesus only formed "One " Church [ Matt.16: 18 ] . The Bible says the Church is the 'bride' of Christ [ Eph. 5: 23-32 ] Jesus never divorced His Church of Matt 16:15-19 ] Christ's Church can be found in these verses ,notice only the Catholic Church meets these requirements , certainly not your man-made organization .
1 - The Church is One - { Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13 ]
2- The Church is Holy -[ Eph. 5:25, Rev. 19:7-8 ]
3- The Church is Catholic - { Matt. 28:19-20 ]
4--The Church is Apostolic [ Eph. 2: 19-20 ]
The apostles were the first bishops , and since the first century , there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handling on what the apostles taught to the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition [ 2 Tim. 2:2 ] From the first century on ,no other church can make this claim and that of course includes your man-made church. So rant and rave all you want JLB you will never destroy Christ's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church because it belongs to our Lord and Savior and He promised to always protect it from people as you.People as you are calling Jesus a liar when you say that His Church is not the One True Church, You drag His Church through the mud just as earlier Roman soldiers dragged Jesus through the mud.
The Catholic Church is the only One Church that listens to Him because it is Apostolic. You JLB reject His Catholic/Apostolic Church [ Luke 10: 16 ] Jesus promised to guide His Church into all truth [ John 16: 12-13] We can have confidence that His Church alone Teaches the Truth along with the Fullness of the Christian Faith , which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth " [ 1 Tim. 3:15 ]
I won't expect for you to show supporting Bible verses for your particular man-made church/cult invented 'in these later days' because the Holy Bible doesn't contain any. God Bless
Selene
New Member
I agree with you that we are to be born again in BOTH water and the Holy Spirit. So you are correct in this. However, you are incorrect to interpret "born of water" as childbirth. Jesus said, one must be born of water and spirit. And then he goes on to correct Nicodemus who misunderstood Jesus. Nicodemus thought that "born of water" is natural childbirth, which is why he asked how can be enter his mother's womb again. Jesus corrected him because Jesus was never speaking about natural childbirth. "Born of water and spirit" means baptism. The kind of baptism that Jesus underwent at the Jordan River. That's what I've always been saying. Jesus wants us to follow Him....to be baptized in the same way as He was baptized.
Don't be too sure of yourself ...
there are several theories about what being born of water and the Spirit means.
If you're a Christian there is only one way, one baptism [ no different theories,as you write ]. "Jesus said, one must be born of water and spirit". also see Eph. 4:3-6, Matt. 28:18-20.
The word of God clearly shows baptism in water by John the baptist as well as the apostles.
The word also speaks of a baptism of The Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues following.
Baptism in water is about death burial and resurrection. Nothing to do with the new birth.
Born of water refers to natural child birth - for flesh gives birth to flesh. Natural water has NOTHING to do with spiritual birth!!!
A person is born again of the word or God. The Gospel message! ...having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
If a person does not hear or believe the Gospel Message, yet they are "Baptized" in water do you suppose they are born again. NO!!!
The washing of water through the word has nothing to do with the new birth. It's about sanctifying and cleansing!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
Sanctify and cleanse that she should be holy with blemish!
Not born again!!! Sanctified and cleansed.
Please read and study these passages.
JLB
Selene
New Member
I am very certain that "being born of water and spirit" means baptism.
How can you be "born again" if you are not made holy, sanctified, and cleansed of your sins?
If you are so certain, then the Lord must have given you a special revelation about it.
Because there are 6 major interpretations of these words ... and no one can say for sure which is true.
Until you came along.
To be "born again (from above)" simply means that the precious Holy Spirit has come inside the person.
At this very moment, he/she understands very little indeed about spiritual things.
He/she believes in Jesus' gospel, but that's about all.
You must be referring to sanctification, which a long process unto holiness.
I appreciate your great interest in things of the Spirit,
but at this stage you need to be learning, not teaching.
1 John 1:7-8
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
First your must be born again! Then you are baptized into His death, burial and resurrection.
Sanctification and cleansing is a continual process.
We are transformed by the renewing of our minds. Transformation is a process.
Those who believe have the right to become sons of God. John 1:12 [ Sons here is male or female ]
The right to become means there is a process!
Line upon line, precept upon precept. Learning to die daily.
Our spirit man is cleansed of sin upon being born again so we can be filled with The Holy Spirit.
Now comes the work of Transformation and Conforming our soul back into the image of His Son.
Being transformed into full stature, mature sonship whereby we have the mind of Christ and walk as He walked is a process.
JLB
Selene
New Member
I agree that it is a long process for one to be holy. The Holy Spirit in us helps us in this journey of holiness.
It would make more sense to be baptized first. Even the Bible showed that God sent St. John the Baptist to baptize first. The Holy Spirit was sent last. In Jesus' baptism, He went into the water first and then the Holy Spirit descended and rested in Him.
I agree with what you say here. To be holy is a continuing process here on Earth, and it starts at baptism when the Holy Spirit descends upon us and rests in us. And God says that we are His child. We follow a baptism of Christ that includes both water and spirit. Surely, there is nothing wrong with following this kind of baptism.
It is good that you want to follow Christ.
Baptism in water is a good, holy doctrine of the New Testament Church.
However, there seems to be reason why you do not want to acknowledge The Baptism of The Holy Spirit as a different Baptism, when there are clear examples in the writings of the new testament.
My motive is for you to experience this life changing experience. The Baptism of The Holy Spirit will forever change your life and I truly want you to experience it.
You never will if you think you already have it.
JLB
Selene
New Member
If you have believed the Gospel message and are born again, then of course The Holy Spirit is in you.
Look at these scriptures with me. -
As of yet, they had not received The Holy Spirit.
He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 7:38
Here is where they receive The Holy Spirit. - John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
Now they have The Holy Spirit, yet they are told not leave Jerusalem. They are not yet "Baptized" in The Holy Spirit.
Remember this is clearly after they had received The Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:4-5,8
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
They had received The Holy Spirit, however, they had not been Baptized in the Holy Spirit!
1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Now, they are Baptized in The Holy Spirit!
Jesus said -
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
But you shall receive power, when The Holy Spirit has come upon you!
For John truly Baptized in water, BUT you shall be Baptized in The Holy Spirit, not many days from now.
Not just the disciples, but all who were in the upper room.
1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Jesus will not over rule you free will, He will not force you to be saved or to be baptized in The Holy Spirit and receive power.
You first have to believe, then ask.
JLB
This is the best post that I've read in a very long time.
"there are clear examples in the writings of the new testament"
not to mention the confirming experiences of many millions of people all over the world.
Oh, but ... I was raised not to believe it.
Oh, but ... my pastor says it's not for today.
Oh, but ... if I believe it, I'll feel like an inferior Christian.
And on and on ...
Selene
New Member
So, you simply do not believe the OPs in my 2 threads on the Christian baptisms, right?
I mean, you're writing as if there's no difference in INSIDE and UPON,
even though the UPON verses are all about tongues and etc.
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