A Closer Look at the Genesis Creation Account

[Cooper]

I only need include God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ, the path to salvation.

God the Father is Spirit, you have just denied God.
.

 

[JohnPaul]

God the Father is Spirit, you have just denied God.
.

I deny nothing if God the Father is the Spirit then you needn’t a Trinity.

 

[Cooper]

I deny nothing if God the Father is the Spirit then you needn’t a Trinity.

You won't understand this, but I will post it anyway.

God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14). God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man, that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race. But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age.

 

[JohnPaul]

You won't understand this, but I will post it anyway.

God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14). God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man, that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race. But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age.

Believe what you want, I pass no judgement on you or try to coerce you to my beliefs or say that you are dammed, that will be for God to decide, not you.

 

[Cooper]

Believe what you want, I pass no judgement on you or try to coerce you to my beliefs or say that you are dammed, that will be for God to decide, not you.

God
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isa 9:6 KJV)

Joh 3:18 KJV He that believeth on him (Jesus) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The above warning follows your signature.

 

[Aunty Jane]

LOVE! They must have caused the deaths of thousands by not allowing blood transfusions.

Again, this is ignorance talking.....more people have died after receiving a transfusion, than have ever died for refusing one. In fact today, more and more medical professionals are refraining from ordering blood transfusions because of the proven risks they impose.

Whole hospitals are now dedicated to non-blood management of their patients, and with great success.

This video was released on the Australian Government’s website...stating that there is actually more “morbidity” (bad health outcomes) and “mortality” (deaths) associated with blood transfusions than any other medical intervention. This is nothing to do with JW’s.

For Media | National Blood Authority

Everyone’s blood is unique....it contains a person’s unique history as well as their DNA, so to introduce foreign, living tissue into the body of another person, sets off an immediate immune response and actually interferes with a person’s ability to recover. What can save lives is a simple saline solution that is called a plasma volume expander which allows the remaining red cells to circulate and to prevent veins from collapsing due to a lack of volume.

There are other techniques available for treating patients without blood.

Ignorance is a terrible thing. Jehovah’s Witnesses have been criticised for decades concerning their stand on the use of blood, but it is God’s law to “abstain from blood” not just for Israel, but also for Christians. (Acts 15:28-29, Leviticus 17:14)
God’s first prohibition on the consumption of blood goes back to Noah. (Genesis 9:3-4) It was part of God’s law to Israel and reiterated again to Christians. God considers it important to respect the sanctity of blood.

To “abstain from blood” meant not to misuse it in any way, because it was blood that represented life itself, hence the blood sacrifices to God in Israel symbolised returning the life of the sacrificed creature back to God. It had sin atoning qualities and was therefore not to be used in any other way but strictly as God instructed. Misuse carried the death penalty.

Our refusal of blood led dedicated medical personnel to find ways of treating JW patients that eliminated the need for blood transfusions....the results were so successful that now it has become standard procedure to hold back on the use of blood, because the recovery rate for JW’s was so much faster and with less morbidity than patients who had received blood, that it was saving the hospitals a lot of money to have this faster recovery rate and lower treatment costs.

So unless you actually do some research on the subject, you remain a slave to ignorance. But I have a feeling that you like the kind of slavery you cling to.....it means that you can just accept what is told to you without first checking to see if it is correct. Putting your faith in the wrong people can be death dealing. Knowledge dispels ignorance.

Never mind broken marriages caused by their rules.

What rules? Every rule we live by is scriptural. Following the Bible’s advice and counsel protects the sanctity of marriage, which God designed to last forever, and it has saved many couples from an unscriptural divorce. The Bible’s counsel is to choose your marriage mate wisely, because there are only two valid grounds for dissolving a marriage and leaving one free to remarry....adultery or death.

In today’s selfish world that is all too hard....excuses for divorce are a dime a dozen so that now no fault divorces are also a dime a dozen...and that is if the parties even bother to get married in the first place.
We follow God’s rules or we can adopt the world’s rules....that is our choice, but people need to stop and ask how God feels about his institution of marriage.....and how he will respond to those who treat his laws with contempt.

 

[JohnPaul]

God
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isa 9:6 KJV)

Joh 3:18 KJV He that believeth on him (Jesus) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The above warning follows your signature.

I have to keep civil, I think you have a problem understanding me, I do believe in Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God and God Almighty creator of Heaven and Earth and all that is seen and unseen and in between. Plain and simple.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You won't understand this, but I will post it anyway.

Please, why the condescension? Perhaps it is you who "won't understand this"?

God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14).

Yes, the Word became flesh....but the Word was "with God", so how could he at the same time, BE God? Is there more than one god in heaven?
Why was the pre-human Jesus called the "Logos" in the first place? Do you know?

God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man, that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race. But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice.

If the Father had become flesh, then the problem of his immortality would have been an impediment.....mere mortals cannot kill God....nor can an immortal being, die. God therefore "sent" his firstborn son to carry out the redemption of mankind, which he did willingly.He did not need to be God but only the equivalent of Adam....a sinless human being.

According to the redemption laws in Israel, a redeemer only had to pay the equivalent of the debt. Once paid, the debt was cancelled. If the debtor could not pay the debt, he could sell himself into service to work off the debt to the one he owed it to. Conversely if he was the sole breadwinner of the family and they needed his ongoing support, a son or daughter could be pressed into service to pay off the debt.
The other option was for a wealthy relative or benefactor to furnish the redemption price and free the debtor from slavery.

And this eternal hell that you speak of is not what Christendom claims it to be.....there is no such place as a fiery hell where God tortures souls forever. What kind of a fiend would do that?! It would never enter God's mind! (Jeremiah 7:31)

Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age.

seriously? Sending the ungodly to perdition????
Have you ever looked up the word "perdition" in an interlinear or concordance?
2 Thessalonians 2:3...
"For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition.” (RSV)
That word "perdition" doesn't mean what you think it does....
"apōleia" means....

1. 
   
   
   • "destroying, utter destruction
     
     1. of vessels
   • a perishing, ruin, destruction"

"Perdition" is not torture or suffering...it simply means to "destroy something utterly".

Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life....which is the only two options that Israel was ever given.

Deuteronomy 30:15-17....
“See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. 16 If you listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God that I am commanding you today, by loving Jehovah your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will live and multiply, and Jehovah your God will bless you in the land you are going to possess.

17 “But if your heart turns away and you do not listen and you are enticed and bow down to other gods and serve them, 18 I tell you today that you will certainly perish."

No heaven or hell there...just life or death.
Look up the word "perish".....it is "'āḇaḏ" which means to...

1. "perish, die, be exterminated."

There is no place of punishment after death...there is just eternal death.....stripped of the gift of life....why would God need to do more that that?
Who are the fiends who want him to be like them? God is not all about punishment, but about reward. He places life and death before all of us and asks us to choose life too.....so how are we to do that when so many different ideas are presented as truth?

Will God prevent us from believing the lies? NO!

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12...
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

So, God knows those who love the "unrighteous deception"...those who love the 'delusion' they entertain and who are blind to the real truth because it doesn't fit their desired view of God. These want to believe the lie and will defend it to their death....and God will not correct them.

 

[Cooper]

Please, why the condescension? Perhaps it is you who "won't understand this"?


Yes, the Word became flesh....but the Word was "with God", so how could he at the same time, BE God? Is there more than one god in heaven?
Why was the pre-human Jesus called the "Logos" in the first place? Do you know?


If the Father had become flesh, then the problem of his immortality would have been an impediment.....mere mortals cannot kill God....nor can an immortal being, die. God therefore "sent" his firstborn son to carry out the redemption of mankind, which he did willingly.He did not need to be God but only the equivalent of Adam....a sinless human being.

According to the redemption laws in Israel, a redeemer only had to pay the equivalent of the debt. Once paid, the debt was cancelled. If the debtor could not pay the debt, he could sell himself into service to work off the debt to the one he owed it to. Conversely if he was the sole breadwinner of the family and they needed his ongoing support, a son or daughter could be pressed into service to pay off the debt.
The other option was for a wealthy relative or benefactor to furnish the redemption price and free the debtor from slavery.

And this eternal hell that you speak of is not what Christendom claims it to be.....there is no such place as a fiery hell where God tortures souls forever. What kind of a fiend would do that?! It would never enter God's mind! (Jeremiah 7:31)

seriously? Sending the ungodly to perdition????
Have you ever looked up the word "perdition" in an interlinear or concordance?
2 Thessalonians 2:3...
"For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition.” (RSV)
That word "perdition" doesn't mean what you think it does....
"apōleia" means....

1. 
   
   
   • "destroying, utter destruction
     
     1. of vessels
   • a perishing, ruin, destruction"

"Perdition" is not torture or suffering...it simply means to "destroy something utterly".

Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life....which is the only two options that Israel was ever given.

Deuteronomy 30:15-17....
“See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. 16 If you listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God that I am commanding you today, by loving Jehovah your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will live and multiply, and Jehovah your God will bless you in the land you are going to possess.

17 “But if your heart turns away and you do not listen and you are enticed and bow down to other gods and serve them, 18 I tell you today that you will certainly perish."

No heaven or hell there...just life or death.
Look up the word "perish".....it is "'āḇaḏ" which means to...

1. "perish, die, be exterminated."

There is no place of punishment after death...there is just eternal death.....stripped of the gift of life....why would God need to do more that that?
Who are the fiends who want him to be like them? God is not all about punishment, but about reward. He places life and death before all of us and asks us to choose life too.....so how are we to do that when so many different ideas are presented as truth?

Will God prevent us from believing the lies? NO!

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12...
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

So, God knows those who love the "unrighteous deception"...those who love the 'delusion' they entertain and who are blind to the real truth because it doesn't fit their desired view of God. These want to believe the lie and will defend it to their death....and God will not correct them.

Look. You are lost in the wilderness. So you can stop giving directions and follow Jesus all the days of your life who will lead you into the promised land He is preparing for you.
.

 

[Cooper]

I have to keep civil, I think you have a problem understanding me, I do believe in Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God and God Almighty creator of Heaven and Earth and all that is seen and unseen and in between. Plain and simple.

Do you believe Jesus Immanuel, meaning God is with us, is the Creator God who manifest himself in the flesh, making himself visible so that all who believe in Him and accept him as their Lord and Saviour will have their sins forgiven, and be with Him in glory eternally in one of the many mansions He is preparing for us?
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Look. You are lost in the wilderness. So you can stop giving directions.

I'm sorry, but your replies are truly pathetic...you can never back up a thing you say.....Is this all you can do....?
Can you not do your own research?
Are you just happy to mouth off and then when you are shown the truth, fail to acknowledge that you have just been proven wrong about everything you said....? Closed minds and closed hearts will learn nothing. Does the truth mean nothing to you?

 

[Cooper]

I'm sorry, but your replies are truly pathetic...you can never back up a thing you say.....Is this all you can do....?
Can you not do your own research?
Are you just happy to mouth off and then when you are shown the truth, fail to acknowledge that you have just been proven wrong about everything you said....? Closed minds and closed hearts will learn nothing. Does the truth mean nothing to you?

First of all, you need to know I do not read a single word of your long posts. Secondly, I added something to my post that you may not have read.

 

[Aunty Jane]

First of all, you need to know I do not read a single word of your long posts. Secondly, I added something to my post that you may not have read.

So you don't read a single thing I post (pretty obvious) because you don't want to learn anything.....but you add to your post something that has nothing to do with my response.....and I am supposed to read every word.....interesting....

You are apparently your own hero.....all the best with that.

Good bye Cooper....

 

[Cooper]

So you don't read a single thing I post (pretty obvious) because you don't want to learn anything.....but you add to your post something that has nothing to do with my response.....and I am supposed to read every word.....interesting....

You are apparently your own hero.....all the best with that.

Good bye Cooper....

Before you go of your own free will, please explain how a mere mortal man can prepare a heavenly place for us.
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Before you go of your own free will, please explain how a mere mortal man can prepare a heavenly place for us.
.

That is easy Cooper....Jesus wasn’t a mortal when he went back to heaven to prepare a place for his “elect”. He was “put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”.....being raised as a spirit, (the form he had before becoming a human) it was not a mortal who went back to do as he promised.
Flesh and blood cannot exist in heaven.

 

[Cooper]

That is easy Cooper....Jesus wasn’t a mortal when he went back to heaven to prepare a place for his “elect”. He was “put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”.....being raised as a spirit, (the form he had before becoming a human) it was not a mortal who went back to do as he promised.
Flesh and blood cannot exist in heaven.

Joh 6:38 KJV For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Joh 6:38 KJV For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
.

How does that even relate to what I said? Who “sent” Jesus? Who did Jesus call “the only true God? (John 17:3) Are there two gods?.....one who was in heaven whilst the other was on earth? Please explain....and where was the third god? Why was there no mention of him?

Jesus was in spirit form before his life was transferred from heaven to the womb of a Jewish virgin. He was born as a mortal human, and died as a mortal human to repay the debt that Adam left for his children. He was resurrected by his God and Father in spirit form so that he would be able to return to heaven. Flesh and blood cannot exist in heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:50)

 

[Waiting on him]

Is Jesus the Alpha and Omega?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Is Jesus the Alpha and Omega?

In the most ancient Greek manuscripts of the book of Revelation, the expression “the Alpha and the Omega” appears three times. Does this designation, as many believe, apply both to the Almighty God, Jehovah, and to his Son Jesus Christ? Just what is the significance of the title “the Alpha and the Omega”?

The word “alpha” is the name for the first letter of the Greek alphabet, whereas the term “omega” designates the last letter of the Greek alphabet. Hence, in itself, the title “the Alpha and the Omega” conveys the idea of the start and the finish or completion of a thing. The personage who is so designated would, therefore, be viewed as the beginner of certain things and the one who brings these things to a successful conclusion.
Does the title “the Alpha and the Omega” apply exclusively to Jehovah? To answer this question, we must examine the context in which this designation appears.

Revelation 1:8 states: “The Lord God says, ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the One who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty!’” (The New American Bible) Clearly, the reference here is to the Most High God Jehovah.
In the Scriptures, only the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ is spoken of as “the Lord God” and as the “Almighty.” Jesus Christ even refers to his Father as “my God.” (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12) According to Revelation 1:1, the revelation was given to Jesus Christ by God. Hence, we should expect the words of the Almighty God to be quoted in the account.

The next occurrence of the title “the Alpha and the Omega” is found at Revelation 21:6. In the following verse, the One who applies this title to himself says: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” Since Jesus Christ speaks of himself as a “brother” of these conquerors, it is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ who is referring to himself as “the Alpha and the Omega.”

Finally, since the context does not necessitate our attributing the words of Revelation 22:12-13, either to the angel or to Jesus, they could have originated with another speaker. Consistent with the rest of the book of Revelation, “the Alpha and the Omega” is shown to be the Almighty God. He is the One who comes in the capacity of a judge to reward and to punish individuals according to their works.
(Excerpts from https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101978608?q=alpha+omega&p=par)

Since the Christian scriptures were written without a trinity in mind, there is no scripture that includes it, or even the concept of it......verses used to imply the trinity can be read and translated in different ways in today’s English versions, but not at the time in which they were written. The Jews, and hence the first Christians had no concept of a triune god....’threesomes’ were only found in pagan worship.....and the “weeds” introduced them when the foretold apostasy occurred. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3)

 

[quietthinker]

Part 2

I don't really understand what you mean here...? By getting offside with their Creator, the first humans became aware that their Creator was not happy with them. He evicted them from their garden home and cursed the ground on their account, forcing them to become farmers.
Instead of delicious fruit, now they were to "eat bread" under hard labor. (Genesis 3:17-19)

There is not a single expression of remorse, nor was there ever a sacrifice offered to God in repentance. They knew that their sin was unforgivable because there was no basis upon which to forgive them. Perfect humans are like the angels...they don't make mistakes...their sin is willful and deliberate, in full knowledge of the consequences.
Christ was not sent to die for Adam and Eve....he was sent to rescue their children, born in sin through no fault on their part.


Yes it was. But before Adam and his wife bore offspring (the foundation of the world) God had already formulated the remedy. (Genesis 3:15)


God kept the mystery of the Kingdom to himself until he sent his Messiah into the world and his apostles got to understand what it was all about.
But his people knew that the Kingdom of God would rule the earth in the hands of his Messiah....they just were short on the details.


Its sort of lost because I do not agree with what you said here.
"Appeasing the offended deity" and "pulling up their socks" was never in the equation, unless it was to repent of their sin and turn back to God. IMO. God's perfect law was given to an imperfect people in order to demonstrate their need for the coming Messiah....a savior who would rescue them the curse it became. It was a curse because it condemned sinners....and all are sinners. (Romans 5:12)
Galatians 3:13....
"Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.”


QT it is hard for me to follow your line of thinking when mine is contrary to your own.
Do you have a brotherhood who believes as you do? Or are these conclusions entirely your own? I believe that what happened in Israel, has happened again in our day. (Matthew 13:15)
Who taught you your truth? You see, my fundamental foundation is resting on a different rock altogether.....and I have a large global brotherhood who all believe the same as I do. We are taught as a collective, not as individual sheep all doing their own thing in the same pen. We are under the care of our shepherds who bear responsibility for the welfare of the flock. (Hebrews 13:17)
Who are your appointed shepherds?

We are poles apart in our appraisal of the big picture I'm afraid.....

In a certain sense AJ, I am not really surprised that you don't understand what I mean however I do wonder why couching the biblical story in contemporary language is beyond your ability to relate to.
Perhaps it's because your enjoyment of a biblical discussion ends at that point? ie, the objective of discussing is not really about discovering truth objectively but more about shoring up preconceptions for the purpose of flattering one's ego irrespective of how civil one goes about the process.

In any case, if you do not understand basic contemporary descriptions there is little point expanding on them and their implications. Any other attempted explanations become nothing more than a jumble of words to the hearer.