A Closer Look at the Genesis Creation Account

[Aunty Jane]

In a certain sense AJ, I am not really surprised that you don't understand what I mean however I do wonder why couching the biblical story in contemporary language is beyond your ability to relate to.

What you write is so opposed to what I believe that it requires so much external input that it deviates from the Bible’s central theme, which is the Kingdom of God.....it is the instrumentality by which God reconciles the world to himself “through” the willing sacrifice of his son. How is what you are suggesting even remotely close to what I believe?
What if it’s you who is way off the mark here?

Again you didn’t answer my questions....who taught you your truth? Do you have a brotherhood who all believe as you do? (1 Corinthians 1:10) Christianity is not something one can practice alone....nor can you feed yourself the spiritual “food” that was to be dispensed by the “slave” that Jesus said he would appoint in this “time of the end”. (Matthew 24:45) There is only one “Christianity” hiding among many “weeds” at this juncture in history, like a diamond in the rough hiding in a pile of broken glass....you have to know what a real diamond looks like. You cannot create your own version of the diamond and expect it to pass God’s inspection.

Perhaps it's because your enjoyment of a biblical discussion ends at that point? ie, the objective of discussing is not really about discovering truth objectively but more about shoring up preconceptions for the purpose of flattering one's ego irrespective of how civil one goes about the process.

My enjoyment of Biblical discussions is in the scriptures themselves and how they relate to all other scripture. The Bible has many writers, but only one author. It is one harmonious story from Genesis to Revelation, so a few scriptures plucked out of context here and there can be suggested to say anything a person wants them to say. It’s the thread of the story from start to finish that tells the truth.

How many other people believe what you do? There can be no “lone rangers” among Christ’s disciples. (Hebrews 10:24-25) With whom do you share your views? Does God share them? How do you know that what you believe is correct? “Belief” is all any of us have......and some of us are going to be very disappointed. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Civility is what Jesus demonstrated....it should be an expectation in a discussion.....shouldn’t it?

In any case, if you do not understand basic contemporary descriptions there is little point expanding on them and their implications. Any other attempted explanations become nothing more than a jumble of words to the hearer.

“Basic contemporary descriptions” of things written a book that involves thousands of years of history in the outworking of God’s original purpose? Are you serious?

I have to understand Genesis before I could ever understand Revelation or even the Gospels.
Your description is “a jumble of words” to me.....and I guess maybe to others as well....what does that mean? Only one of two things.....

 

[quietthinker]

How many other people believe what you do? There can be no “lone rangers” among Christ’s disciples. (Hebrews 10:24-25) With whom do you share your views? Does God share them? How do you know that what you believe is correct? “Belief” is all any of us have......and some of us are going to be very disappointed. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Civility is what Jesus demonstrated....it should be an expectation in a discussion.....shouldn’t it?

I see you have hitched your belief to the wagon of others and cannot fathom it being independent of Jesus. There are so many wagons to hitch to, none of which are mandatory.

I think your conclusions have lost their objectivity and are intimately entwined with individuals whom I think have lost their footing.
The loss of footing is evident in the inability to understand simple contemporary language when it comes to describing the relationship between God and Adam and Eve. I think if one is tripped up at this juncture, one will trip up on everything else.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The loss of footing is evident in the inability to understand simple contemporary language when it comes to describing the relationship between God and Adam and Eve. I think if one is tripped up at this juncture, one will trip up on everything else.

Can we explore this a little QT because the relationship of God with Adam and Eve is key to understanding the whole of scripture IMO.....

Please explain in specific terms what this involves from your perspective....

 

[quietthinker]

@Aunty Jane
Here is my statement (description) from post #423..

Consequence, in the case of Adam and Eve had them running for cover....something had shifted in their reality and they thought God had it in for them (erroneously)....because we read he went looking for them.....like lost sheep
Blaming started when God addressed them, blaming of each other as well as God. I find that interesting.
From the moment of creation God was their only best friend and their partner (Adam or Eve) a buddy so close they were one flesh.....yet something happened within themselves as a result (consequence) of disobedience and the relationships they had took on suspicion and fear....even with the animals!

here is your response in post #431...

I don't really understand what you mean here...?

...you then go on to muddle the matter I see it as a decoy, a convenient sidestep to avoid further implications.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Here is my statement (description) from post #423..

here is your response in post #431...

...you then go on to muddle the matter I see it as a decoy, a convenient sidestep to avoid further implications.

This is why I asked you to explain what you meant by God's relationship with Adam and Eve....what do you think I am missing?

 

[quietthinker]

This is why I asked you to explain what you meant by God's relationship with Adam and Eve....what do you think I am missing?

what don't you understand in my contemporary description?

 

[Aunty Jane]

what don't you understand in my contemporary description?

Just about everything.....why do we need a "contemporary description" when the Bible's description is quite sufficient?

What was God's relationship with them.....just explain what you think it meant.....not difficult is it?

 

[quietthinker]

Just about everything.....why do we need a "contemporary description" when the Bible's description is quite sufficient?

What was God's relationship with them.....just explain what you think it meant.....not difficult is it?

You are doing a circular dance AJ....I had hoped you would not resort to that. I also trust I am not talking to a child where basic ways of understanding need reiteration.

Sorry for my shortness!

 

[Cooper]

Please explain....and where was the third god? Why was there no mention of him?

Jesus was in spirit form before his life was transferred from heaven to the womb of a Jewish virgin. He was born as a mortal human, and died as a mortal human to repay the debt that Adam left for his children. He was resurrected by his God and Father in spirit form so that he would be able to return to heaven. Flesh and blood cannot exist in heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:50)

You have explained it yourself. As you say, "There is no third God Jesus was in spirit form (God is Spirit, Jesus is God) before his life was transferred from heaven to the womb of a Jewish virgin."

This is the one God made visible. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; (Colossians 2:9 NKJV)
.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You are doing a circular dance AJ....I had hoped you would not resort to that. I also trust I am not talking to a child where basic ways of understanding need reiteration.

Sorry for my shortness!

Resort to what?

QT it is you who are dodging direct questions about Adam and Eve's relationship to God...I am trying for the life of me to understand your vague references......I am not a child, but if you want me to understand what you are saying, you need to answer direct questions when they are asked of you.....you are tap dancing all over the place whilst accusing me of doing the same. I am simply trying to figure out what it is that you believe and why you believe it....

If they were "basic ways of understanding" then surely I would have twigged by now...? I have no idea what in the heck you are on about....so I have resorted to watching some of the video in your signature. Who on earth is Ian Hartley? I have never heard of him.

Is it his teachings you follow? Is this the brotherhood to which you have attached yourself?

The other "Light Bearers" link says of God...
"God is love. Both His nature and His character are perfectly other-centered, selfless, and giving. These qualities flow naturally from His essential plurality as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He possesses qualities that are uniquely His own including omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence. By virtue of His uniqueness and otherness He is necessarily shrouded in mystery, and yet His self-revelation in nature, humankind, and Holy Scripture gives us compelling and beautiful glimpses of Who and What He is. He alone is worthy of worship.

I have serious issues with quite a bit of that. So we are poles apart, and further discussion is pointless since you can't seem to answer a direct question about anything. Where can this conversation go except south? I have already told you I hate vagueness. If you can't be straight up I have nothing more to say.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You have explained it yourself. As you say, "There is no third God Jesus was in spirit form (God is Spirit, Jesus is God) before his life was transferred from heaven to the womb of a Jewish virgin."

So God implanted himself in Mary's womb? To whom then did Jesus pray? And how can the will of the Son be different to that of the Father? (Matthew 26:39, 42)
How can the Father know things that the Son doesn't? (Matthew 24:36) Why is the third god always missing when Jehovah and his son are mentioned together? (John 17:3)

This is the one God made visible. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; (Colossians 2:9 NKJV)
.

There is no such word as "godhead" in the Bible....it is a made up word, just like the names of the trinity gods are made up.
There is no "God the Son" and there is no "God the Holy Spirit".....if you can find these words in the Bible, please provide them.
There is only "God the Father".

1 Corinthians 8:5-6...
"For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him."
"One God the Father.....and one Lord Jesus Christ"....so the apostles did not have any doubt about who their God was....and it wasn't Jesus because the title "Lord" is simply a title of respect like "Sir".

England is full of "Lords" and none of them are worshipped. "The House of Lords" there, is not a church.

 

[Cooper]

So God implanted himself in Mary's womb? To whom then did Jesus pray? And how can the will of the Son be different to that of the Father? (Matthew 26:39, 42)
How can the Father know things that the Son doesn't? (Matthew 24:36) Why is the third god always missing when Jehovah and his son are mentioned together? (John 17:3)


There is no such word as "godhead" in the Bible....it is a made up word, just like the names of the trinity gods are made up.
There is no "God the Son" and there is no "God the Holy Spirit".....if you can find these words in the Bible, please provide them.
There is only "God the Father".

1 Corinthians 8:5-6...
"For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him."
"One God the Father.....and one Lord Jesus Christ"....so the apostles did not have any doubt about who their God was....and it wasn't Jesus because the title "Lord" is simply a title of respect like "Sir".

England is full of "Lords" and none of them are worshipped. "The House of Lords" there, is not a church.

You had it right, and then you go and spoil it. And yes Godhead is in the Bible, I gave you one occurrence and there are a couple more.
.

 

[quietthinker]

I have serious issues with quite a bit of that

A breath of fresh air; at least to admit that!

So we are poles apart,

no doubt...however a heartfelt search for whatever is true should not be a hinderance.

and further discussion is pointless since you can't seem to answer a direct question about anything.

Do you really think that is true, pointless ie....and about my responses not being direct; is that really how you see because I have not given your desired answer?

Where can this conversation go except south?

I didn't peg you as a pessimist.

I have already told you I hate vagueness. If you can't be straight up I have nothing more to say.

I don't find descriptions in contemporary language vague when it conveys the sentiment accurately and using it is not a lack of straight up.
The objective is not to violate intent of scripture when one interprets.....we have that creative privilege.

God is not our enemy that we need to pacify. He didn't just place the first pair of humans on the Earth and let them fend for themselves. He rested with them, he walked and talked with them, he introduced them to the remainder of his creation and had them give names to the animals. They (A&E) no doubt also had the company of angels who I imagine would have warned them of a lurking foe; a foe which they were unfamiliar with being the new folk on the block of God's creation. God was to them their best friend and he to them a loving Father.

Yes yes, I know the scripture does not use these very words however the context makes this deduction inevitable. Do you really find this difficult to understand?

 

[Aunty Jane]

You had it right, and then you go and spoil it.

I have asked you legitimate questions but you never answer them. If you cannot answer them, then you have no basis for what you believe. Your faith is blind....and there is no reasoning with that.

And yes Godhead is in the Bible, I gave you one occurrence and there are a couple more.

Sorry, but there is no such word. What is translated as "godhead" is "theotēs" and it is only used once in all the Greek scriptures.
It is thought to be taken from "theos" which means...."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities".
So there is no godhead....it simply means that the fullness of godliness or divinity dwelt in Jesus.

 

[JohnPaul]

You had it right, and then you go and spoil it. And yes Godhead is in the Bible, I gave you one occurrence and there are a couple more.
.

The word Godhead is not mentioned in the Bible unless you have some kind of New World Hippy liberal Bible or something.

 

[Cooper]

I have asked you legitimate questions but you never answer them. If you cannot answer them, then you have no basis for what you believe. Your faith is blind....and there is no reasoning with that.


Sorry, but there is no such word. What is translated as "godhead" is "theotēs" and it is only used once in all the Greek scriptures.
It is thought to be taken from "theos" which means...."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities".
So there is no godhead....it simply means that the fullness of godliness or divinity dwelt in Jesus.

Divine theotēs
theh-ot'-ace
From G2316; divinity : - godhead.

Act_17:29 (KJV) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Rom_1:20 (KJV) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Col_2:9 (KJV) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Adjective.
theios (G2304), "divine" (from theos, "God"), is used of the power of God, 2Pe_1:3, and of His nature, 2Pe_1:4, in each place, as that which proceeds from Himself. In Act_17:29 it is used as a noun with the definite article, to denote "the Godhead," the Deity (i.e., the one true God). This word, instead of theos, was purposely used by the apostle in speaking to Greeks on Mars Hill, as in accordance with Greek usage. Cf. DIVINITY. In the Sept., Exo_31:3; Exo_35:31; Job_27:3; Job_33:4; Pro_2:17.

Jesus
Rom_1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Col_2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

2 Peter 1:3 KJV According as his divine(2304) power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2 Peter 1:4 KJV Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine(2304) nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

According as his divine(G2304 theios) power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 2 Peter 1:3 KJV

Jesus by an act of divine power sent the Comforter.

Col 2:8-10
Watch that there not be one misleading you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Messiah. For in Him dwells all the fullness of divinity bodily; and it is through Him, that you have been made complete, for He is the Head of all angelic orders and authority,

1. ALL the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ. [For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9]

2. All of God was in Christ. [To wit, that God was in Christ 2Co 5:19]

3. All the fullness of the Father dwelt in Christ. [For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell Col 1:19]

4. God was manifest in the flesh. [And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, 1Ti 3:16]

5. God dwelt among us. [And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us Joh 1:14]

6. Jesus is The Mighty God and The Everlasting Father. Isa 9.

7. All things were created by Jesus. Col 1:16.

8. Jesus is God with us (Immanuel.) Matt 1.
.

 

[Cooper]

Sorry man, but that word Godhead, sounds like something Satanic.

To use the word you just have (Satanic), puts a whole new and horrible spin on the nature of Almighty God.
That is a terrible thing you have just said, making out God to be Satan.
.

 

[JohnPaul]

I see my posts have been deleted, that’s okay I won’t use certain words. My apologies to the staff.

Believe what you want Cooper, for the time being we still have our Freedom here in America, all due to the Grace of God from breaking free from you guys.

 

[Cooper]

I see my posts have been deleted, that’s okay I won’t use certain words. My apologies to the staff.

Believe what you want Cooper, for the time being we still have our Freedom here in America, all due to the Grace of God from breaking free from you guys.

I had you on ignore, and then I took you off, and now I am putting you back on again.

 

[JohnPaul]

I had you on ignore, and then I took you off, and now I am putting you back on again.

Thank you, you saved me the trouble.