A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

[tigger 2]

Part B of answers to Clear Challenges to the Trinity - A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians | Page 59 | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board #1170:

The second point asked for in the beginning above:

(B) Please show where in scripture God is ever described using the word "three."

Using Concordances for the KJV (Strong's and Young's Concordances) and the NASB (New American Standard Concordance of the Bible, Lockman Foundation 1981) I have found absolutely no scriptures which use the word "three" in describing God. But notice how important the use of the word 'three' is in the very definition of the trinity concept (see definition of 'trinity' at the beginning of this study.).

Isn't the word "three" at least as important as the word "one' (which is used for God in scripture) for the knowledge of the God whom we must worship in truth (Jn 4:24) - -that is, if the trinity doctrine were actually true?

Not only is the word "three" never used in conjunction with God anywhere in the Holy Scriptures (which simply could not be if God were really a "trinity"!), but it isn’t even as scripturally important as many other numbers ("one," "seven," "twelve," for example)!

There are "very few traces of ‘three’ in the cultus and the religious conceptions of the Israelites .... This relative rarity of a connexion between ‘three’ and religious notions, which prevails in the OT, should not be [supplied] from other sources. The thunder call, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jahweh (the?) one’ (Dt 6:4, cf. Is 41:4 44:6 48:12 ), drowns the voice of those who refer us to the triads of gods that were adored by the Babylonians, Assyrians, (Anu, Bel, and Ea, etc. ...), and other nations of antiquity. .... But the original meaning of the OT text must not be modified to suit either heathen parallels or later stages in its own development." - pp. 565, 566, Vol. 3, A Dictionary of the Bible, Hastings (trinitarian), ed., Hendrickson Publ. (trinitarian), 1988 printing.

"Although three has widely been thought a sacred number [by trinitarians, of course], specifically religious uses of it in the Bible seem to be relatively few." - p. 687, Vol. 2, The New International Dictionary of the New Testament (trinitarian), Zondervan Publ. (trinitarian), 1986.

If there were even hints of a trinity to be found in Scripture, the one word we would regularly see with religious significance would be "three." The fact that it is relatively insignificant throughout Scripture is enough in itself to refute any idea of a trinity!

 

[David in NJ]

Part B of answers to Clear Challenges to the Trinity - A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians | Page 59 | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board #1170:

The second point asked for in the beginning above:

(B) Please show where in scripture God is ever described using the word "three."

Using Concordances for the KJV (Strong's and Young's Concordances) and the NASB (New American Standard Concordance of the Bible, Lockman Foundation 1981) I have found absolutely no scriptures which use the word "three" in describing God. But notice how important the use of the word 'three' is in the very definition of the trinity concept (see definition of 'trinity' at the beginning of this study.).

Isn't the word "three" at least as important as the word "one' (which is used for God in scripture) for the knowledge of the God whom we must worship in truth (Jn 4:24) - -that is, if the trinity doctrine were actually true?

Not only is the word "three" never used in conjunction with God anywhere in the Holy Scriptures (which simply could not be if God were really a "trinity"!), but it isn’t even as scripturally important as many other numbers ("one," "seven," "twelve," for example)!

There are "very few traces of ‘three’ in the cultus and the religious conceptions of the Israelites .... This relative rarity of a connexion between ‘three’ and religious notions, which prevails in the OT, should not be [supplied] from other sources. The thunder call, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jahweh (the?) one’ (Dt 6:4, cf. Is 41:4 44:6 48:12 ), drowns the voice of those who refer us to the triads of gods that were adored by the Babylonians, Assyrians, (Anu, Bel, and Ea, etc. ...), and other nations of antiquity. .... But the original meaning of the OT text must not be modified to suit either heathen parallels or later stages in its own development." - pp. 565, 566, Vol. 3, A Dictionary of the Bible, Hastings (trinitarian), ed., Hendrickson Publ. (trinitarian), 1988 printing.

"Although three has widely been thought a sacred number [by trinitarians, of course], specifically religious uses of it in the Bible seem to be relatively few." - p. 687, Vol. 2, The New International Dictionary of the New Testament (trinitarian), Zondervan Publ. (trinitarian), 1986.

If there were even hints of a trinity to be found in Scripture, the one word we would regularly see with religious significance would be "three." The fact that it is relatively insignificant throughout Scripture is enough in itself to refute any idea of a trinity!

Again this is GENESIS and the GOSPEL in ACTION unto ETERNAL LIFE

Genesis: "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness." 3 times = Us + Our + Our
Genesis/Gospel: Abraham = Father of Nations , Isaac = Only Begotten of the Father , Jacob = Holy Spirit = 3
Gospel = 3: As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. And a Voice from Heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”

without THREE you cannot SEE
remove any ONE and you have no GOSPEL = no Salvation

 

[Keiw]

i KNOW the LORD Jesus teaches us the FATHER sent Him = 100% TRUTH
This is what you don't know:
1.) the LORD Jesus never prays to YHWH but only to His FATHER
2.) the LORD Jesus never tells us to believe in YHWH but to believe in HIM/JESUS for Salvation and His FATHER
3.) the LORD Jesus says no one can come to the FATHER but thru HIM for JESUS is YHWH

BONUS: What is the NAME of the FATHER that the LORD Jesus Christ has given to us in John chapter 17 ???

Hallowed be thy name= YHWH(Jehovah) is the Father. There is no other name.
Matt 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness.

 

[David in NJ]

Hallowed be thy name= YHWH(Jehovah) is the Father. There is no other name.
Matt 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness.

Our FATHER who is in Heaven
Holy is thy Name

Read John 17 = LORD Jesus Christ only prays to His Father and the Name YHWH is never mentioned.

You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life.
These are the very words that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.
I do not accept glory from men, but I know you, that you do not have the love of God within you.
I have come in My Father’s name, and you have not received Me;
but if someone else comes in his own name, you will receive him.
How can you believe if you accept glory from one another, yet do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
John ch5

Don't be like those who reject the LORD Jesus thinking they are worshipping YHWH - they are not.

Read the Gospel of John and Believe the Word of Elohim and pray at the feet of the LORD Jesus Christ to SEE.

 

[Kermos]

Part B of answers to Clear Challenges to the Trinity - A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians | Page 59 | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board #1170:

The second point asked for in the beginning above:

(B) Please show where in scripture God is ever described using the word "three."

Using Concordances for the KJV (Strong's and Young's Concordances) and the NASB (New American Standard Concordance of the Bible, Lockman Foundation 1981) I have found absolutely no scriptures which use the word "three" in describing God. But notice how important the use of the word 'three' is in the very definition of the trinity concept (see definition of 'trinity' at the beginning of this study.).

Isn't the word "three" at least as important as the word "one' (which is used for God in scripture) for the knowledge of the God whom we must worship in truth (Jn 4:24) - -that is, if the trinity doctrine were actually true?

Not only is the word "three" never used in conjunction with God anywhere in the Holy Scriptures (which simply could not be if God were really a "trinity"!), but it isn’t even as scripturally important as many other numbers ("one," "seven," "twelve," for example)!

There are "very few traces of ‘three’ in the cultus and the religious conceptions of the Israelites .... This relative rarity of a connexion between ‘three’ and religious notions, which prevails in the OT, should not be [supplied] from other sources. The thunder call, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jahweh (the?) one’ (Dt 6:4, cf. Is 41:4 44:6 48:12 ), drowns the voice of those who refer us to the triads of gods that were adored by the Babylonians, Assyrians, (Anu, Bel, and Ea, etc. ...), and other nations of antiquity. .... But the original meaning of the OT text must not be modified to suit either heathen parallels or later stages in its own development." - pp. 565, 566, Vol. 3, A Dictionary of the Bible, Hastings (trinitarian), ed., Hendrickson Publ. (trinitarian), 1988 printing.

"Although three has widely been thought a sacred number [by trinitarians, of course], specifically religious uses of it in the Bible seem to be relatively few." - p. 687, Vol. 2, The New International Dictionary of the New Testament (trinitarian), Zondervan Publ. (trinitarian), 1986.

If there were even hints of a trinity to be found in Scripture, the one word we would regularly see with religious significance would be "three." The fact that it is relatively insignificant throughout Scripture is enough in itself to refute any idea of a trinity!

@tigger 2, let's look at what your writings reveal about your heart's treasure.

In your heart, John 1:1 reads "the Word was a god" resulting in Jesus being a separate god from YHWH God thus your "a god" is before YHWH God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1219 in this thread); therefore, YOU are in sin of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3), so you do not know Who Jesus is.

additionally

your contrivance of eyheh being "I will be" indicates that you think that YHWH God did not exist but will become YHWH God at some time in the future after YHWH God speaks to Moses at the burning bush (Exodus 3:14) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #644 in this thread); in other words, you think that YHWH God had to be created! This is according to your words of "I will be" for eyheh.

additionally

you claim God's Wisdom was created by YHWH God who lacked Wisdom according to your twisted interpretation of Proverbs 8 (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #752 in this thread), so, in effect, your heart's treasure is that YHWH God started off as a stupid being.

additionally

you wickedly add your words directly into the words of the Apostle Thomas recorded in John 20:28 - an evil crime by itself (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #843 in this thread), yet in so doing, you plunge even further into your evil deception by you subtracting that which the Apostle John wrote about the dialog between Jesus and Thomas in John 20:26-29.

You are vacant of the Truth (John 14:6).

 

[Kermos]

New International Version
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

New Living Translation
I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.

English Standard Version
that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

New American Standard Bible
that they may all be one; just as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.


which sage said dont bother correcting the fool as its best to let them be and continue digging their hole?

The Word of God states "they may all be one" is a "one" referring to the people of God on the left hand side of "just as" in John 17:21-22; meanwhile, The Word of God states "You, Father, are in Me and I in You" (John 17:21) and "We are One" (John 17:22) is another "one" referring to the One True God on the right hand side of "just as" in John 17:21-22; therefore, Jesus clearly delineates tew different "one"'s in that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me" (John 17:21) and "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one" (John 17:22). You replied to a post that carefully explained this Truth (John 14:6), but your heart desperately wants "just as to be "and one and the same as" in John 17:21-22, so you are making yourself out to be greater than the Word of God because you evilly replace the sayings of the Word of God by way of your hearts treasure.

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Kermos]

2 spots in the NT where Ho Theos( true God) = capitol G, and plain Theos= small g god in the same paragraph. John 1:1-2 Cor 4:4-- the translating rule applies the same. Such a shame billions have been mislead by that translating error found at John 1:1--Jesus himself teaches how all need to serve the true God properly at John 4:22-24--It takes believing Jesus over error--the majority outright refuse. Again at John 17:3-Jesus is clear-the one who sent him= Father= THE ONLY TEUE GOD. BELIEVE JESUS.

You do not escape the fact that for your heart, John 1:1 reads "the Word was a god" resulting in Jesus being a separate god from YHWH God thus your "a god" is before YHWH God; therefore, YOU are in violation of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3).

Do not be deceived, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1) is the accurate translation as shown in this post to which you replied.

The Apostle John proclaims Jesus to be YHWH God with those words in John 1:1 for there is One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Rich R]

your contrivance of eyheh being "I will be" indicates that you think that YHWH God did not exist but will become YHWH God at some time in the future after YHWH God speaks to Moses at the burning bush (Exodus 3:14) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #644 in this thread); in other words, you think that YHWH God had to be created! This is according to your words of "I will be" for eyheh.

Not so fast my friend!

It is a linguistic fact that "I am" can be translated as "I will be." The Tyndale Bible (the first English translation from Hebrew & Greek) translates it that way. There are other versions that also translate it that way.

Understanding the nature of all the other gods in the Ancient Near East (ANE) will help to understand why God named Himself YHWH and why it is such a wonderful name. The gods of the ANE were more or less like humans in their actions and dispositions except they did everything much "bigger" than humans. They got angry, sad, afraid, confused. They were vindictive, holding grudges for eons. They were fond of sex orgies. They were selfish, caring only for their on good while caring little for humans. To these gods, humans were nothing more than playthings. meant to be used and abused. They would cause problems for people but never tell them why. If someone got sick or their crops failed, it was thought that some god or another was mad at them but they had no idea why nor what to do to regain the god's favor.

It is also noteworthy that the ANE gods had well defined and limited duties. The sun god made the sun rise and set and that's all he did. The storm god caused storms and that's all he did. The river god made the rivers to flow and that's all they did. I think you get the idea.

Along comes YHWH and shows Himself to be totally opposite from all other gods. Israel was fully aware of these gods so when YHWH told them His name their jaws probably dropped. His name told them that He was the only God they would need. He would do for them whatever needed to be done in whatever difficulty they might encounter. He would be whatever they needed Him to be, hence, "I will be." He alone would supply all they ever needed, regardless of their situation.

Exod 3:17,

And I have said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, unto a land flowing with milk and honey.
​

Look at the promise YHWH made to Israel. Unlike all the other capricious ANE gods, YHWH told them exactly what He was about to do. It can't be overstated how radical of an idea this was to the Jews.

I wish you could break out of tradition and see the real beauty of our Father and His only begotten son as told in the scriptures and nothing but the scriptures. There is nothing wrong with reading other sources, but all external writings must be compared with scripture. While there is plenty written by church Fathers about the trinity, the word itself is not in the scriptures, nor is there mention of "three" in connection with God's nature. YHWY is always referred to as being one. I can see you love God and His word, so I don't understand why you have to rely so much on external writings to arrive at your rule of faith and practice.

I think a really interesting experiment would be to find someone who never heard of the trinity (probably not really possible) and have them read the scriptures without preconceived ideas. I'm virtually certain that such a person would come away with the understanding that:

1 Cor 8:6,

But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
​

Sorry, but the son is simply not qualified to be the one God. The Father alone is God. As the scriptures declare some 35 times, Jesus is God's son and therefore not God.

Making Jesus God in one stroke obscures the brilliance of God's plan, the logos of John 1:1, to redeem mankind by a man, as well as the magnificent heroism of that man, Jesus Christ, who carried out that plan to perfection. Nothing is hard for God (Jer 32:27), so it would have been nothing for Him to obey Himself or to believe He'd raise Himself from the dead. Not so with the man Jesus Christ. The difficulty of the work Jesus did for us is beyond comprehension. Despite being tempted just like you and I (of course God can't be tempted), he never once succumbed to those temptations despite the grave bodily harm (a gross understatement) he suffered as a result of following the plan, the logos, of his Father to the letter. It's be like saying the war hero who sacrificed his life so others could be free meant little to nothing. How sad.

Rom 5:12 & 15,

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.​

What is so wrong with believing that?

 

[Keiw]

Our FATHER who is in Heaven
Holy is thy Name

Read John 17 = LORD Jesus Christ only prays to His Father and the Name YHWH is never mentioned.

You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life.
These are the very words that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.
I do not accept glory from men, but I know you, that you do not have the love of God within you.
I have come in My Father’s name, and you have not received Me;
but if someone else comes in his own name, you will receive him.
How can you believe if you accept glory from one another, yet do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
John ch5

Don't be like those who reject the LORD Jesus thinking they are worshipping YHWH - they are not.

Read the Gospel of John and Believe the Word of Elohim and pray at the feet of the LORD Jesus Christ to SEE.

His name doesnt have to be mentioned. Its the name of God in nearly 6800 places in the OT alone-- Most bibles are altered and had it removed. They had no right. That name belongs in the NT as well.

 

[Keiw]

You do not escape the fact that for your heart, John 1:1 reads "the Word was a god" resulting in Jesus being a separate god from YHWH God thus your "a god" is before YHWH God; therefore, YOU are in violation of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3).

Do not be deceived, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1) is the accurate translation as shown in this post to which you replied.

The Apostle John proclaims Jesus to be YHWH God with those words in John 1:1 for there is One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

If your version is correct, its you with more than 1 God because if the Logos( word) is God then your second line actually is reading--and God was with God. Making more than 1 God--god small g is not calling that one the true God.

 

[David in NJ]

His name doesnt have to be mentioned. Its the name of God in nearly 6800 places in the OT alone-- Most bibles are altered and had it removed. They had no right. That name belongs in the NT as well.

And the LORD Jesus Christ said that the Volume of the Book(Torah/Moses/Prophets/Scripture) is about Him = the LORD.
This is why the LORD Jesus said to the Jews = IAM = YHWH

This is why YHWH is never mentioned by LORD Jesus Christ, the LORD/YHWH only mentions His FATHER.

Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son,
that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment.
Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Now pay ATTENTION here so that you can be saved and DO NOT harden your heart or you will end up like the Jews.

"You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life."

 

[keithr]

And the LORD Jesus Christ said that the Volume of the Book(Torah/Moses/Prophets/Scripture) is about Him = the LORD.

It's "Lord Jesus", it's never printed as "LORD Jesus". The Old Testament Scriptures referring to Jesus are the verses referring to the promised Messiah, e.g. Daniel 9:25 (KJV):

(25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.​

Now pay ATTENTION here so that you can be saved and DO NOT harden your heart or you will end up like the Jews.

"You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life."

John 5 (WEB):

(39) “You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and these are they which testify about me."
(40) Yet you will not come to me, that you may have life.
(41) I don’t receive glory from men.
(42) But I know you, that you don’t have God’s love in yourselves.
(43) I have come in my Father’s name, and you don’t receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
(44) How can you believe, who receive glory from one another, and you don’t seek the glory that comes from the only God?
(45) “Don’t think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you, even Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
(46) For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me.
(47) But if you don’t believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”​

These are words that Moses wrote, referring to Jesus, Deuteronomy 18:15-22 (WEB):

(15) Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from among you, of your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him.
(16) This is according to all that you desired of Yahweh your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, “Let me not hear again Yahweh my God’s voice, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I not die.”
(17) Yahweh said to me, “They have well said that which they have spoken.
(18) I will raise them up a prophet from among their brothers, like you. I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him.
(19) It shall happen, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
(20) But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.”
(21) You may say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?”
(22) When a prophet speaks in Yahweh’s name, if the thing doesn’t follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him.
​

This is confirmed by Peter after he healed the lame man, in Acts 3:13-26 (WEB):

(13) The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.
(14) But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you,
(15) and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, to which we are witnesses.
(16) By faith in his name, his name has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which is through him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
(17) “Now, brothers, I know that you did this in ignorance, as did also your rulers.
(18) But the things which God announced by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled.
(19) “Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, so that there may come times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord,
(20) and that he may send Christ Jesus, who was ordained for you before,
(21) whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God spoke long ago by the mouth of his holy prophets.
(22) For Moses indeed said to the fathers, ‘The Lord God will raise up a prophet for you from among your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him in all things whatever he says to you.
(23) It will be that every soul that will not listen to that prophet will be utterly destroyed from among the people.’
(24) Yes, and all the prophets from Samuel and those who followed after, as many as have spoken, they also told of these days.
(25) You are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘In your offspring will all the families of the earth be blessed.’
(26) God, having raised up his servant Jesus, sent him to you first to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your wickedness.”
​

 

[David in NJ]

It's "Lord Jesus", it's never printed as "LORD Jesus". The Old Testament Scriptures referring to Jesus are the verses referring to the promised Messiah, e.g. Daniel 9:25 (KJV):

(25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah ​

And the Scripture you posted is only HALF the TRUTH as it only pertains to the HALF of Scripture = "the WORD became flesh."
You only have the "Flesh" Half of TRUTH and even that part you struggle to comprehend.

the LORD Jesus said Moses wrote about HIM, including when the WORD appeared to Moses = IAM.

How do we know this is TRUTH = the LORD Jesus said so = John ch8 = "before Abraham IAM"

the LORD Jesus said this to the Jews many times in different ways and that is why the sought to stone HIM.

Which leaves you on the same doorstep as the unbelieving Jews = "you will not come to ME that you may have Life."

Speak up and present your case—(keithr)
yes, let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago?
Who announced it from ancient times?
Was it not I, the LORD?
There is no other God but Me,
a righteous God and Savior;
there is none but Me. Turn to Me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth;
for I am God,
and there is no other. By Myself I have sworn;
truth has gone out from My mouth,
a word that will not be revoked:
Every knee will bow before Me,
every tongue will swear allegiance. = Isaiah 45:21-23 = Philippians 2:5-11

If you are not kneeling before the LORD Jesus Christ and confessing that HE is LORD = you do not know HIM.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God
something to be grasped, but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross. Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place
and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[jaybird]

The Word of God states . . .

wow, how many different versions did i post, guess it doesnt matter, the scripture can be shown to you a million times, but you are not gonna let that come between you and your manmade doctrines. thats messed up.

so why do you refuse to accept scripture?

 

[keithr]

If you are not kneeling before the LORD Jesus Christ and confessing that HE is LORD = you do not know HIM.

Repeating those Scriptures:

Deuteronomy 18:19 (WEB):

(19) It shall happen, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.​

Acts 3:22-23 (WEB):

(22) For Moses indeed said to the fathers, ‘The Lord God will raise up a prophet for you from among your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him in all things whatever he says to you.
(23) It will be that every soul that will not listen to that prophet will be utterly destroyed from among the people.’​

You need to listen to what Jesus said:

John 17:1,3

(1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, ...
(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

John 20:17

(17) Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”​

Revelation 3:12

(12) He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.​

Jesus is not YHWH (LORD), he is our Lord - he is not God (YHWH):

Philippians 2:11

(11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

Romans 10:9

(9) that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.​

Jesus never claimed to be God, but he did claim to be the son of God - listen to him!

Luke 22:70

(70) They all said, “Are you then the Son of God?” He said to them, “You say it, because I am.”​

John 3:17-18

(17) For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.
(18) He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.​

John 10:36

(36) do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God?’​

even death on a cross. Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place

Yep, God exalted Jesus, therefore Jesus cannot be God!

 

[David in NJ]

Repeating those Scriptures:

Deuteronomy 18:19 (WEB):

(19) It shall happen, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.​

Acts 3:22-23 (WEB):

(22) For Moses indeed said to the fathers, ‘The Lord God will raise up a prophet for you from among your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him in all things whatever he says to you.
(23) It will be that every soul that will not listen to that prophet will be utterly destroyed from among the people.’​

You need to listen to what Jesus said:

John 17:1,3

(1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, ...
(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

John 20:17

(17) Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”​

Revelation 3:12

(12) He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.​

Jesus is not YHWH (LORD), he is our Lord - he is not God (YHWH):

Philippians 2:11

(11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

Romans 10:9

(9) that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.​

Jesus never claimed to be God, but he did claim to be the son of God - listen to him!

Luke 22:70

(70) They all said, “Are you then the Son of God?” He said to them, “You say it, because I am.”​

John 3:17-18

(17) For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.
(18) He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.​

John 10:36

(36) do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God?’​

Yep, God exalted Jesus, therefore Jesus cannot be God!

Good Morning keithr,

ALL the Scriptures you posted here are = YEAH and AMEN = they speak of Elohim Son coming in the flesh

In the OT the word for God is Elohim and it signifies the Plurality of Elohim = Elohim Abraham Elohim Isaac Elohim Jacob
Which is the ONE(Echad) True Elohim = FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT = "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"

In the NT God is referring to the FATHER of our LORD Jesus Christ
When the LORD came in the flesh = YAHshuah (YHWH came down and/or YHWH humbled Himself) = Philippians 2:5-9
Now that YAHshuah came down = the LORD Jesus Christ only spoke of His FATHER = "who are in Heaven"
According to the unbelieving Jews, when Jesus said "before Abraham IAM" they instantly recognized who HE was claiming to BE.

without THREE you cannot SEE............remove any One and you have no GOSPEL

 

[tigger 2]

Third clear challenge to the trinity doctrine

I have enlarged an important part of the second challenge above for those who have significant problems reading English:

(B) Please show where in scripture God is ever described using the word "three."

Now for part C

(C) Please find a clear, direct, undisputed scriptural statement equivalent to clear, undisputed scriptures) which declares:

'YHWH is the Son,' or 'YHWH is the Firstborn,' or, 'YHWH is the Messiah (or "Christ"), or any other equally clear, undisputed statement (or personal name) that 'Jesus is YHWH' (the only God according to scripture).

In challenge (A) above we find that All the visions and dreams in all scripture which show God, show him as one person only, and in challenge (B) we discover that the word "three" is never used in describing God anywhere in clear, undisputed scripture.

The next challenge, (C) above, is mostly confined to the OT Scriptures, since it requires use of the only personal name of God: YHWH (transliterated ‘JEHOVAH’ – Ps. 83:18, KJV or "Jehovah" - Ex. 3:15, ASV; NEB; MLB; LB; KJIIV and MKJV; Byington; Young’s; and Darby or ‘Yahweh’ – Ex. 3:15, AT; JB; NJB; World English Bible).

God is named YHWH, which is improperly rendered in most English Bibles as "LORD" (all capitals). 'Yahweh,' and/or 'Jehovah' are used more properly as transliteraions into English in some Bibles. The KJV uses 'JEHOVAH' at Ps. 83:18, but 'LORD 'in nearly all the other 6000+ places it is found in the Hebrew manuscripts.

There is no other God but YHWH (Is. 45:5, 45:21; 46:9; Ps. 83:16-18).

There are clear direct, undisputed statements that YHWH is the Father (e.g., Isaiah 64:8 "But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand." - ASV). There are a number of personal names in scripture which mean "God is YHWH" (Elijah); "YHWH is God" (Joel).

But more important, there are a number of personal names in scripture which mean "YHWH is the Father" (e.g., Abijah; Abia; Joab). These names are also clear, direct undisputed statements of who YHWH, the only God, is: the Father.

So my scriptural challenge here, (C), is to

Please find a clear, direct, undisputed scriptural statement which is equivalent to 'Jesus is the Christ' or 'YHWH is the Father' (which really are found repeatedly in clear, undisputed scriptures) which declares:

'YHWH is the Son,' or 'YHWH is the Firstborn,' or, 'YHWH is the Messiah (or "Christ"), or any other equally clear, undisputed statement (or personal name) that 'Jesus is YHWH' (the only God according to scripture).

Yes, it would most likely be found in the OT, but that is where the scriptures are which we have referred to! The OT is, of course the largest part of the Bible and was the only scripture known to Jesus and his followers during his lifetime on earth. (To understand the lack of God’s personal name in the later Septuagint copies and in the NT itself, see Examining the Trinity: Bar Kochba and the Christians .)

Nevertheless, it could still be found in personal names in the NT (as it was in the OT), since the only uses of God’s personal name found in still-existing NT manuscripts are in personal names and the phrase ‘Hallelujah’ (‘Praise Jehovah.’):

Some of the names in the NT which contain God's personal name: Uriah; Abijah ('The Father is Jehovah') NKJV, ASV; RSV, NRSV, JB, etc.; Jehoshaphat; Jehoram; Uzziah; Hezekiah; Josiah; Jeconiah; Ananias ['Jehovah is Gracious'] - "a common Jewish name, the same as Hananiah." - Today's Dictionary of the Bible, (Ananias, 'high priest at Jerusalem, A.D. 60' - Young's) - Acts 23:2; 24:1. So people (including a high priest) were still being given personal names which had YHWH's personal name as part of their meaning in NT times. Also 'Elijah' (which means ‘God is Jehovah’ is used 30 times in the NT);

And in Luke 1:5 Zechariah; and Abijah NKJV, ASV; NASB; RSV; NRSV; JB; etc. This is the name of one of the 24 priestly divisions and named by Luke as such in the NT in connection with Zechariah the priest, John the Baptist's Father. This priestly division of Abijah (which means 'The Father is Jehovah') existed until the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.).

Therefore, there is no reason why personal names, even in the NT, should not have had the meaning of "The Son is YHWH" or the "Holy Spirit is YHWH" (just as so many were named "The Father is YHWH"). Except of course, the obvious one:

No Christian or Jew believed such a thing!

There are no such statements or meanings of personal names in any of the scriptures!

The one true Most High God simply has not revealed himself in any scriptural vision, representation, or dream as anything but a single person, the Father. The Jews never understood him in any other way. Jesus did not reveal him in any other way. The NT writers did not reveal him in any other way (other than by generalizations, "mystery" solving, allegorical interpretations, or disputed translating of trinitarian theologians). And the very first Christians (up to the second century A.D. at least) did not understand God in any other way.

If God were truly three persons, it would have been revealed clearly and repeatedly from the beginning. This is essential knowledge of God, and all worshipers of the true God have needed such knowledge from the beginning. God would not have withheld it from his chosen people throughout the thousands of years of his prophets and inspired scripture writers.

 

[Keiw]

And the LORD Jesus Christ said that the Volume of the Book(Torah/Moses/Prophets/Scripture) is about Him = the LORD.
This is why the LORD Jesus said to the Jews = IAM = YHWH

This is why YHWH is never mentioned by LORD Jesus Christ, the LORD/YHWH only mentions His FATHER.

Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son,
that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment.
Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Now pay ATTENTION here so that you can be saved and DO NOT harden your heart or you will end up like the Jews.

"You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life."

YHWH = LORD all capitols--The LORD( YHWH) said to my Lord( Jesus) proves 100% Jesus is not YHWH. You wont believe facts.

 

[David in NJ]

YHWH = LORD all capitols--The LORD( YHWH) said to my Lord( Jesus) proves 100% Jesus is not YHWH. You wont believe facts.

Where does the LORD Jesus ever call His Father, YHWH?

JESUS always refers/prays to His FATHER and never to YHWH.

 

[David in NJ]

YHWH = LORD all capitols--The LORD( YHWH) said to my Lord( Jesus) proves 100% Jesus is not YHWH. You wont believe facts.

Who is "the First and the Last" in Revelation ch1?