A Discussion with Youth

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Justadude

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I've been lurking in the thread about Millennials, Gen Z's and why they're not going to church and/or leaving Christianity. Like many of you, I've seen the survey data on this issue, but it occurred to me that I haven't actually talked to any younger folks about it. So I decided to have my kids ask their friends about their experiences with Christianity and Christian churches. For background, the kids who answered (about 15 of 'em) ranged in age from 17 to 25. Some are Christians, some are "spiritual", some are "seeking", and some are not at all religious. Most of them are girls. Here's the gist of what they said.

The first thing that stood out to me was how many of them had quite similar backgrounds. They were raised in a Christian family, with Christian parents who regularly took them to a Christian church. Many attended preschool at their church. Only a few didn't have this experience because they were raised in a non-religious family. None of them were raised in a non-Christian faith.

Of the ones who were raised in a Christian environment, only two still consider themselves Christians and continue to attend church. The reasons they cited for doing so was that they felt their faith was important to them, was important to their family, provided them comfort and guidance, and helped them strive to be better people. One specifically cited a spiritual experience she'd had. They were asked if they had any issues with Christianity or their church, and both answered that yes, they didn't agree with everything their church taught but it wasn't important enough to leave over.

Of the ones who ended up leaving the church, the stories were surprisingly consistent. They spoke about how their church focused heavily on political and social issues, which they didn't like. Several said they felt the church was more about what they were against, rather than what they were for. They also said the culture at their church felt "toxic", "judgmental", "hypocritical", and "behind the times". Some were more specific and described how the church was "too hateful about LGBTQs" and "too close to the local Republican Party" (one had a pastor who is also a Republican State Rep). One girl described how nasty and judgmental people at the church were after she dyed a blue streak into her hair.

They also described how often the youth leaders (or Sunday School teachers) would delve into subjects they felt had "nothing to do with the point of Christianity", mostly science-related (evolution, global warming, big bang). A few used terms like "ridiculous", "dumb", and "lies" to describe some of what they were being told by the church on those subjects.

When asked if they ever looked into other Christian churches, surprisingly (to me) most had. They basically described how they got frustrated because it seemed like the ones that were less focused on political, social, and science issues were intellectually "empty". One said the pastor at a more liberal church gave sermons that were more like stand-up comedy routines. Another said a mega church she tried felt too impersonal and seemed like a money-making scheme. Interestingly, they also described how out of place they felt when the churches they tried out engaged in rituals that were different than what they'd been raised in. A few now consider themselves "spiritual" and feel they don't need to subscribe to a specific religion or attend a church. The rest essentially are no longer religious.

For those who were never raised in a religious setting, only one had any religious inclinations. The rest said religion simply wasn't important to them. The one who is "seeking" was looking into Christianity as well as other non-Christian religions. He said he liked the main message of Christianity, but also had problems with other parts of it (e.g., it's exclusivity and belief in hell). He said he also liked parts of Islam and Buddhism, but also disliked other parts of both.

Of course this isn't any sort of statistical sample and as such is very limited in its utility. I did find it interesting though how often their replies lined up with the results of actual surveys. Either way, I found the whole thing to be fascinating.
 
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Justadude

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Yes it is very interesting.
A question you don't seem to have asked is.
What are there views on the truth of Christianity?
Did Jesus rise from the dead? Is God knowable? Is there such a thing as ' sin ' ?
I can certainly ask. I'll let you know what I hear back.
 

Justadude

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And btw, if anyone else has questions they'd like me to ask, feel free to post them here. This is all via social media so it's easy to do.
 
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Rita

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I was thinking about this on the other thread. It’s actually not uncommon for that age range to want to rebel and go their own way, that is the same in nearly all generations since we developed ‘teenagers ‘ ( well most children went from childhood to adulthood very quickly and had to go to work at a much younger age )
They didn’t have time to rebel or complain as they had to pull their wait and survive. From the 1960’s - 1970’s that seemed to change, I was the first year that had to stay on to school until we were 16years old.
The teenagers started to want to be different from that of their parents ........and would see negatives about anything the older age group did. So can we honestly say this that younger people are just looking in and finding fault because that’s what they do at that age.............
Also it’s an age when they are endeavouring to figure things out for themselves, rather than just following what their parents believe and just accepting it......... I do think their is hypocrisy in the church, without a doubt....and a lot of self righteousness, and a holier than thou attitude from many Christians - but can some of the criticism be more about age and growing up than being constructive criticism.
Rita
 

farouk

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I was thinking about this on the other thread. It’s actually not uncommon for that age range to want to rebel and go their own way, that is the same in nearly all generations since we developed ‘teenagers ‘ ( well most children went from childhood to adulthood very quickly and had to go to work at a much younger age )
They didn’t have time to rebel or complain as they had to pull their wait and survive. From the 1960’s - 1970’s that seemed to change, I was the first year that had to stay on to school until we were 16years old.
The teenagers started to want to be different from that of their parents ........and would see negatives about anything the older age group did. So can we honestly say this that younger people are just looking in and finding fault because that’s what they do at that age.............
Also it’s an age when they are endeavouring to figure things out for themselves, rather than just following what their parents believe and just accepting it......... I do think their is hypocrisy in the church, without a doubt....and a lot of self righteousness, and a holier than thou attitude from many Christians - but can some of the criticism be more about age and growing up than being constructive criticism.
Rita
@Rita There's truth in what you say, indeed.

I do think that the culture of rebellion is overall negative. "Godliness with contentment is great gain."

Also I do think that the knee-jerk, negativity of people who are into cultural 'Churchianity' is not helpful when they seem determined to give young ppl a hard time.

(e.g., "Look that that rebellious young man with earrings!" Response: "Umm, my mom took me to the mall to have them done...")

("Look at that rebellious young woman with a tattoo!" Response: "Umm: it was my 18th birthday present from my dad...")

So often, the reality is far from that of the knee-jerk reaction of those who have evidently "theologized" cultural matters on the basis of subjective preferences from many years ago.
 
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Justadude

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I was thinking about this on the other thread. It’s actually not uncommon for that age range to want to rebel and go their own way, that is the same in nearly all generations since we developed ‘teenagers ‘ ( well most children went from childhood to adulthood very quickly and had to go to work at a much younger age )
They didn’t have time to rebel or complain as they had to pull their wait and survive. From the 1960’s - 1970’s that seemed to change, I was the first year that had to stay on to school until we were 16years old.
The teenagers started to want to be different from that of their parents ........and would see negatives about anything the older age group did. So can we honestly say this that younger people are just looking in and finding fault because that’s what they do at that age.............
Also it’s an age when they are endeavouring to figure things out for themselves, rather than just following what their parents believe and just accepting it......... I do think their is hypocrisy in the church, without a doubt....and a lot of self righteousness, and a holier than thou attitude from many Christians - but can some of the criticism be more about age and growing up than being constructive criticism.
Rita
Very good point, but I'm not so sure it's that much of a factor with these kids. Like I said, they're all 17-22 years old, and most rebellious behavior takes place a little earlier than that. Plus, I know all of them and I've only seen one exhibit any sort of rebellion against their parents (and even that was very mild). For the most part, they're all pretty close to their parents and very good kids. None of them have ever been in the slightest bit of trouble with the law, at school, or with other families. Both my kids are lifetime 4.0 students and have always hung around other kids who also value their education and stay out of trouble. The ones in their 20's are doing very well in college as well.

Who knows though? Maybe all that skews the results in other ways? Like I said, this wasn't intended to be any sort of statistical sample that provides solid insights into the larger trend of Millennials and Gen Zs leaving Christianity. It was more born of me noticing in the thread where you guys were discussing it, no one mentioned that they had actually talked to anyone from that generation and asked them what they thought. I knew I had the opportunity to do that, so I did. :)
 
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Rita

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Ok, that’s helpful to know ..........out of interest, can you ask them how they view Jesus ..I only ask because mine all kind of respect Him, see him different to many of his people - my youngest doesn’t see him as God ( but then he doesn’t believe in God ) ...........I didn’t really understand who Jesus was until I came to faith at 24years old - I went to church and Sunday school until I was teenager .........but never picked up on why he came or his role , only picked up on there being a God, and that he didn’t like us doing things wrong...........
My parents were not church goers or christian ( there is a difference ) So I went along to an Anglican Church linked to my school......
Thank you
Rita x
 
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farouk

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Ok, that’s helpful to know ..........out of interest, can you ask them how they view Jesus ..I only ask because mine all kind of respect Him, see him different to many of his people - my youngest doesn’t see him as God ( but then he doesn’t believe in God ) ...........I didn’t really understand who Jesus was until I came to faith at 24years old - I went to church and Sunday school until I was teenager .........but never picked up on why he came or his role , only picked up on there being a God, and that he didn’t like us doing things wrong...........
My parents were not church goers or christian ( there is a difference ) So I went along to an Anglican Church linked to my school......
Thank you
Rita x
@Rita: Put differently, I suppose it's the difference between head- versus heart-knowledge.
 

Justadude

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Yes it is very interesting.
A question you don't seem to have asked is.
What are there views on the truth of Christianity?
Did Jesus rise from the dead? Is God knowable? Is there such a thing as ' sin ' ?
Here's what I've heard back.

Unsurprisingly, the two who are still Christians answered "yes" to all of those.

Of those who had left their original church, visited other Christian churches but stopped going, the answers were mixed and in some cases, not really answers but were more like philosophical essays. Most weren't sure what the phrase "the truth of Christianity" specifically meant and felt it was too vague for them to answer. A few said something along the lines of "Christianity, like most religions, contains some truth". The most common answer to whether Jesus rose from the dead was mild skepticism, as in "I'm not completely sure, but I don't think so". A couple said "no" and a couple more said "I don't know". Almost all said they believed God is knowable, with a couple saying they didn't think so. The question about "sin" triggered the most discussion, mostly about what "sin" is. I won't transcribe everything here, but the overall view was that if sin is another way of saying "people do bad things", then yes it exists, but if sin means something more like "not doing what God says/not following God's rules", then no.

For those who weren't raised in a religious environment, the answers were basically "no", with the exception being the one person I think of as a "seeker". He also said that Christianity contains some truths, he wasn't sure about Jesus rising from the dead, God is knowable, and "it depends" on the existence of sin.
 

Justadude

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Ok, that’s helpful to know ..........out of interest, can you ask them how they view Jesus ..I only ask because mine all kind of respect Him, see him different to many of his people - my youngest doesn’t see him as God ( but then he doesn’t believe in God ) ...........I didn’t really understand who Jesus was until I came to faith at 24years old - I went to church and Sunday school until I was teenager .........but never picked up on why he came or his role , only picked up on there being a God, and that he didn’t like us doing things wrong...........
My parents were not church goers or christian ( there is a difference ) So I went along to an Anglican Church linked to my school......
Thank you
Rita x
I will ask. :)
 
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farouk

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...mine all kind of respect Him, see him different to many of his people - my youngest doesn’t see him as God ( but then he doesn’t believe in God ) ...........
@Rita: May their respect — through your prayer and Scripture led testimony — turn into saving faith, indeed...
 
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Justadude

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Ok, that’s helpful to know ..........out of interest, can you ask them how they view Jesus ..I only ask because mine all kind of respect Him, see him different to many of his people - my youngest doesn’t see him as God ( but then he doesn’t believe in God ) ...........I didn’t really understand who Jesus was until I came to faith at 24years old - I went to church and Sunday school until I was teenager .........but never picked up on why he came or his role , only picked up on there being a God, and that he didn’t like us doing things wrong...........
My parents were not church goers or christian ( there is a difference ) So I went along to an Anglican Church linked to my school......
Thank you
Rita x
So I only got a few responses back on this. The two Christians gave the standard answer you'd expect....God's only begotten Son, sent as a sacrifice to atone for our sins. The "seeker" said he believed Jesus was a sort of radical Rabbi who was persecuted by the Jewish establishment of that time (but not a deity, or demigod). One of the non-Christians said she wasn't sure Jesus even existed. No one else replied.

I believe that's the end of the exercise. One person wanted to know where I was posting their answers and I sent her a link to this forum and thread. She said it looked to her like the people here at CB didn't seem very interested in the whole thing, so since she had more important things to do, she was done answering questions. The rest of the group saw that and basically agreed.
 
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Rita

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Thanks for asking, and please thank those who responded.......Kind of sad that one said they didn’t think Jesus even existed........okay, got to ask....do you think he existed ?
What do you think about him ? ( just curious ) .
Rita
 

Justadude

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Thanks for asking, and please thank those who responded
Will do!

Kind of sad that one said they didn’t think Jesus even existed........okay, got to ask....do you think he existed ?
What do you think about him ? ( just curious ) .
I figure there was an actual "Jesus Christ" who existed, healed people, preached, and spoke in prophetic terms. My understanding is that at that time and place in history, figures like that were pretty common (one historian noted that what made Jesus unique is that he didn't seek payment for his healing and it didn't always work the first time). I think it's likely he had a small following, that in the years after his death, created an evolving narrative about him rising from the dead and ascending into heaven (similar to how the stories about Mohammed ascending into heaven came from his followers).
 
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There is an account in one of the gospels of a healing that took two attempts, it was to restore a mans sight , but he couldn’t ‘ see clearly ‘ so Jesus did more- I think it is a metaphor for being partially spiritual sighted, it sometimes takes more than one attempt !!
Well I figure I am one of those followers, over the span of time, that believes he rose and ascended.....but you probably already figured that out given that I am a Christian on a Christian forum !!! Lol
Thanks for answering my question - appreciated xx
Rita
 
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Justadude

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There is an account in one of the gospels of a healing that took two attempts, it was to restore a mans sight , but he couldn’t ‘ see clearly ‘ so Jesus did more- I think it is a metaphor for being partially spiritual sighted, it sometimes takes more than one attempt !!
That may very well be what the historian was referencing.

Well I figure I am one of those followers, over the span of time, that believes he rose and ascended.....but you probably already figured that out given that I am a Christian on a Christian forum !!! Lol
LOL...how unusual! ;)

Thanks for answering my question - appreciated xx
Rita
No problem. Thanks for engaging. It's been fun. :)
 
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I just had one of those random memories come to mind, I was talking to my oldest son quite a few years ago about my faith, the bible and Jesus ect.....he said ‘ well I think I need to be zapped like you mum ........’
He is still waiting to be zapped !!
Can I ask you something else .....what made you come to a Christian forum, given the fact that their are endless forums out there to choose from....why this one ?
I was going to ask if you have always been agnostic, but I am not entirely sure what an agnostic believes.......you must believe in something, other wise you would be an atheist ........or is that too simplistic.
Rita
 

Justadude

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Can I ask you something else .....what made you come to a Christian forum, given the fact that their are endless forums out there to choose from....why this one ?
Here's what I think: Is this good for Christianity?
I was going to ask if you have always been agnostic, but I am not entirely sure what an agnostic believes.......you must believe in something, other wise you would be an atheist ........or is that too simplistic.
Rita
I can't recall a time in my life where I've ever believed much of anything about gods. Whenever I've given it much thought, I immediately wonder what a "god" even is, and eventually conclude that the word is so vague and fluid, it's not really meaningful, which renders the question "do gods exist" pointless IMO.