A personal relationship

[mjrhealth]

r Protestant forefathers. Jesus established ONE Church - and YOU are outside of it.

Sorry BOL belong to Christ not mens religions why do you have such a problem with Him... His church existed since pentecost when the Holy Spirit fell upon those in the room, yours was not even a thought in the minds of men.

 

[mjrhealth]

Summing up the law by loving others - especially those you believe are in prison because they disagree with you is sanctification. Unless you are a perfect lover, you remain in your sin.

Still trying to justify your religion, I have spoken to many JWs. always trying, like you to con us, to join there religion, i would rather be joined to Christ. Dont care in they disagree with me, we mist agree with God, and Christ in them there is no lie. We all must seek out our own salvation, we must all choose teh path we walk, we must all choose whom we serve, we must all choose whom or what we are joined to. This bit,

1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co_6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

We know Mormans, walking in pairs down teh street, white shirt, tie black long pants, name tag, bible in hand, we know the catholics on this forum by what they preach, you become what you are joined to, the longer you remain in your religion teh more like your religion you will become. The more time you spend in Christ teh more like Him you will become. Do you want to be religious or Christ like. Your choice.

 

[aspen]

Still trying to justify your religion, I have spoken to many JWs. always trying, like you to con us, to join there religion, i would rather be joined to Christ. Dont care in they disagree with me, we mist agree with God, and Christ in them there is no lie. We all must seek out our own salvation, we must all choose teh path we walk, we must all choose whom we serve, we must all choose whom or what we are joined to. This bit,

1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co_6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

We know Mormans, walking in pairs down teh street, white shirt, tie black long pants, name tag, bible in hand, we know the catholics on this forum by what they preach, you become what you are joined to, the longer you remain in your religion teh more like your religion you will become. The more time you spend in Christ teh more like Him you will become. Do you want to be religious or Christ like. Your choice.

Have I demanded that you join my church, cause I must have missed it if I did....

I see you as the person who is constantly demanding that people ‘turn on, tune in and drop out’ of the Body of Christ and refusing to recognize that you are preaching radical individualism.....Hell holds to this doctrine.

 

[APAK]

Ummmmm, Jesus, who is GOD Himself ordained the ritual of the Lord's Supper - the Eucharist (Matt. 26:26-28, Luke 22:19-20).
Why you would say that rituals are strictly "man-made" is beyond me.

A Wedding ceremony is a ritual in which God IS present.
Why you would say that He is NOT is beyond me (Mark 10:9).

BreadOfLife:

Ok, I guess I was just reading what ByGrace posted to you concerning marriage…it was quite good actually. …

My bad. Take two…Let me make it clearer..

The wedding is the ritual ceremony that encompasses the ‘holy’ marriage ritual ceremony. The purpose of the wedding is to get married. We get two ritual ceremonies for the price of one. Both ritual ceremonies can be complex with pomp and parade. Some are more simple and humble in appearance.

Again, the bond of marriage is not a physical ritual ceremony, it's totally spiritual. It can only be completed spiritually in the presence of God and the two that love the Lord. There are no proxies involved…meaning no ‘holy’ men can unite anyone in the bonds of marriage that will be blessed by God. These nice men folks just facilitate the true holy proceedings in public for what is being processed and united in secret, in the spirit of God.

Do you get my point now?

Bless you,

APAK

 

[VictoryinJesus]

FULLNESS of Him

The fullness of Christ, is His people. In response to your post above: I am not sure what you mean by: the Eucharist. As I told you before I have only been in a Catholic Church once. I don't care for the pious ascension hat that makes a man appear taller or "higher" or "above" others.

Luke 12:25-26
[25] And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? [26] If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

Gold in Heaven is not ornamental bling. Gold in Heaven has been tried by the all-consuming fire of the presence of God and is precious in His sight. It has nothing to do with man's gold that makes man rich. It is a different kind of rich. Rich toward God. Do you not see how superficial it all is?

As far as ceremonies man repeat over and over in a pompous action before a congregation...I could be laying in a gutter, left for dead by man and I could still commune with God. If you want to speak of the marriage ceremony; then let us speak of it. The ceremony of two becoming one is done before others: a preacher/pastor and witnesses.

You do argue for man in focusing endlessly on the ceremony and never moving on from it to the relationship. We also become One with Christ. It is Spiritual. It is relationship. Not the ceremony of it. You reduce it to "ceremony" because "ceremony" keeps man performing over and over in others sight. I am sorry but it is about as vain as the hat. God has put all things underneath the feet of Christ...including manmade religion.

pi·ous
ˈpīəs/
adjective

1. devoutly religious.
   synonyms: religious, devout, God-fearing, churchgoing, spiritual, prayerful, holy, godly, saintly, dedicated, reverent, dutiful, righteous
   "a pious family"
   • making a hypocritical display of virtue.
     "there'll be no pious words said over her"
     synonyms: sanctimonious, hypocritical, insincere, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, pietistic, churchy;
     informalgoody-goody
     "pious platitudes"
   • (of a hope) sincere but unlikely to be fulfilled.
     synonyms: forlorn, vain, doomed, hopeless, desperate;

 

[BreadOfLife]

The fullness of Christ, is His people. In response to your post above: I am not sure what you mean by: the Eucharist. As I told you before I have only been in a Catholic Church once. I don't care for the pious ascension hat that makes a man appear taller or "higher" or "above" others.

Luke 12:25-26
[25] And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? [26] If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

Gold in Heaven is not ornamental bling. Gold in Heaven has been tried by the all-consuming fire of the presence of God and is precious in His sight. It has nothing to do with man's gold that makes man rich. It is a different kind of rich. Rich toward God. Do you not see how superficial it all is?

As far as ceremonies man repeat over and over in a pompous action before a congregation...I could be laying in a gutter, left for dead by man and I could still commune with God. If you want to speak of the marriage ceremony; then let us speak of it. The ceremony of two becoming one is done before others: a preacher/pastor and witnesses.

You do argue for man in focusing endlessly on the ceremony and never moving on from it to the relationship. We also become One with Christ. It is Spiritual. It is relationship. Not the ceremony of it. You reduce it to "ceremony" because "ceremony" keeps man performing over and over in others sight. I am sorry but it is about as vain as the hat. God has put all things underneath the feet of Christ...including manmade religion.

pi·ous
ˈpīəs/
adjective

1. devoutly religious.
   synonyms: religious, devout, God-fearing, churchgoing, spiritual, prayerful, holy, godly, saintly, dedicated, reverent, dutiful, righteous
   "a pious family"
   • making a hypocritical display of virtue.
     "there'll be no pious words said over her"
     synonyms: sanctimonious, hypocritical, insincere, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, pietistic, churchy;
     informalgoody-goody
     "pious platitudes"
   • (of a hope) sincere but unlikely to be fulfilled.
     synonyms: forlorn, vain, doomed, hopeless, desperate;

There you go again talking about me and other Catholics placing a mere man before God - and this is simply NOT the case.
Your posts are usually charitable and I enjoy talking to you so lease don't pervert them with falsehoods.

As for honoring and respecting our clergy - this is prescribed in Scripture:
1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Finally - as to the Wedding ceremony - I haven't "reduced" marriage to a ceremony. I was simply illustrating the efficacy of sacred ritual - that it is not simply man-made and a mere "substitute" for what God does. HE is the one who is joining the two (Mark 10:9).

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLife:

Ok, I guess I was just reading what ByGrace posted to you concerning marriage…it was quite good actually. …

My bad. Take two…Let me make it clearer..

The wedding is the ritual ceremony that encompasses the ‘holy’ marriage ritual ceremony. The purpose of the wedding is to get married. We get two ritual ceremonies for the price of one. Both ritual ceremonies can be complex with pomp and parade. Some are more simple and humble in appearance.

Again, the bond of marriage is not a physical ritual ceremony, it's totally spiritual. It can only be completed spiritually in the presence of God and the two that love the Lord. There are no proxies involved…meaning no ‘holy’ men can unite anyone in the bonds of marriage that will be blessed by God. These nice men folks just facilitate the true holy proceedings in public for what is being processed and united in secret, in the spirit of God.

Do you get my point now?

Bless you,

APAK

First, let me say that I'm grateful for this charitable exchange.

As for the bond of marriage NOT being a physical reality - Scripture disagrees:
Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become ONE flesh.

You ARE correct about the ceremony and the marriage itself being confected by God Himself.
That's my whole point about rituals. They're not worthless, man made events - but have Spiritual significance.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sorry BOL belong to Christ not mens religions why do you have such a problem with Him... His church existed since pentecost when the Holy Spirit fell upon those in the room, yours was not even a thought in the minds of men.

Matt. 12:30
"Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."

This is YOU in a nutshell . . .

 

[APAK]

First, let me say that I'm grateful for this charitable exchange.

As for the bond of marriage NOT being a physical reality - Scripture disagrees:
Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become ONE flesh.

You ARE correct about the ceremony and the marriage itself being confected by God Himself.
That's my whole point about rituals. They're not worthless, man made events - but have Spiritual significance.

BreadOfLife:
I would like examine and discuss Gen 2:24 further with you, although the mutual positive note struck here is more important to me.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLife:
I would like examine and discuss Gen 2:24 further with you, although the mutual positive note struck here is more important to me.

Bless you,

APAK

Sounds good.
What would you like to discuss about Gen. 2:24?

 

[APAK]

Sounds good.
What would you like to discuss about Gen. 2:24?

BreadOfLife:

I do not want to lose sight of what I wrote previous concerning the insignificance of a physical ritual over the invisible nature of God’s presence representing these rituals in our lives.

I just spoke of a ritual as being a physical outward process or ceremony. In Gen 2:25 it is no different. The physical aspects with the union of a man and woman are the result of the spiritual process(es) or activities that came first. Before the act marriage ritual, the spiritual activity was already in motion and established.

In Gen 2:25 first is the spiritual movement of attraction to both the man and woman by God. Then it is transformation into the union of marriage, blessed by God. The physical ritual ceremony of any physical contact, the physical union of a man and woman, is the byproduct of the emotional and spiritual union of love, that comes came from God that continues throughout their lives.

Bless you,


APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLife:

I do not want to lose sight of what I wrote previous concerning the insignificance of a physical ritual over the invisible nature of God’s presence representing these rituals in our lives.

I just spoke of a ritual as being a physical outward process or ceremony. In Gen 2:25 it is no different. The physical aspects with the union of a man and woman are the result of the spiritual process(es) or activities that came first. Before the act marriage ritual, the spiritual activity was already in motion and established.

In Gen 2:25 first is the spiritual movement of attraction to both the man and woman by God. Then it is transformation into the union of marriage, blessed by God. The physical ritual ceremony of any physical contact, the physical union of a man and woman, is the byproduct of the emotional and spiritual union of love, that comes came from God that continues throughout their lives.

Bless you,
APAK

I would have to disagree.

The physical aspect is a vital component of marriage. God doesn't say that the two become one spirit - but one flesh.

When the Bible speaks of the flesh being "wicked" - it is NOT talking about our actual flesh, blood, bones and tissue. It is talking about fleshly thinking. This is why Jesus said, in the Bread of Life discourse:
John 6:63
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

The crowd couldn't understand what Jesus meant by eating His flesh and drinking His blood because they were thinking like humans and not like God. If they simply would have asked Him - He would have explained about the Sacrament of the Eucharist - but they chose to not believe and walk away (John 6:66).

 

[Dcopymope]

So now the me're act of a ritual is seen in a negative light by some. So is love itself a ritual since its supposed to be practiced repeatably?

 

[APAK]

I would have to disagree.

The physical aspect is a vital component of marriage. God doesn't say that the two become one spirit - but one flesh.

When the Bible speaks of the flesh being "wicked" - it is NOT talking about our actual flesh, blood, bones and tissue. It is talking about fleshly thinking. This is why Jesus said, in the Bread of Life discourse:
John 6:63
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

The crowd couldn't understand what Jesus meant by eating His flesh and drinking His blood because they were thinking like humans and not like God. If they simply would have asked Him - He would have explained about the Sacrament of the Eucharist - but they chose to not believe and walk away (John 6:66).

BreadOfLIfe:

Yes, I agree with you that the ‘one’ flesh in marriage means joint or ‘one’ fleshly thought(s) or their human nature in the same thought, their outer mind are as ‘one.’ This encompasses my definition of 'physical' as used in rituals, as both the actions of the outer mind and actions of the physical body. It is both components that work together and not just the natural mind.

This perfect 'one' flesh state is never actually a stable state though, as it drifts in and out and not always in congruence in life.

If this married couple are believers in Christ they also share the SAME 'one' spirit of God that united them in the first place, and then they continue to work as ONE spirit with the spirit of God. This greatly increased the stability of the 'one' flesh state.

This type of marriage and couple are both in Christ and the Father. That is why you will find most of the ‘strongest’ believers as married couples, not singles.

The spiritual God presence moves FIRST and then comes the state of ‘one’ flesh, SECOND.

I’m of the belief that many marriages never become ‘one’ flesh because they were never as ‘one’ spirit FIRST. They were not believers (or at least one is not) and the spirit of God could not guide them…together.

(Joh 6:63) It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. (ESV)

Yes, the verse above is well-fitting The spirit is everything and the flesh of the outer natural mind cannot bring eternal life, ever. It supports and synopses my writings well.


Bless you,


APAK

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There you go again talking about me and other Catholics placing a mere man before God - and this is simply NOT the case.
Your posts are usually charitable and I enjoy talking to you so lease don't pervert them with falsehoods.

As for honoring and respecting our clergy - this is prescribed in Scripture:
1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Finally - as to the Wedding ceremony - I haven't "reduced" marriage to a ceremony. I was simply illustrating the efficacy of sacred ritual - that it is not simply man-made and a mere "substitute" for what God does. HE is the one who is joining the two (Mark 10:9).

I would rather be charitable than right, so I am sorry. My heart is to lift you higher and to encourage you; not beat you or your church down. I'll try my best to not make any further snide comments that discourage your mission. No matter where we disagree; we both love the Lord and His people. Philippians 1:18 [18] What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Yet, I am still left with one major frustration this morning. A large portion of tithes(what is brought into Gods storehouse) and His people money goes to the maintaining of administrative positions and the up keep of a building(dead structure). The church near us openly shares they are sitting on a million dollars. This is a small town church. The savings(reserves) are to build a bigger building( a dead structure). Last night, one of the church's members, hung himself. This man did the walk of religion; on the surface He appeared polished and put-right. He attended the meals and fellowship...yet no one saw his continual pretenses and desperation....Hunger and Thirst. My frustration is that so many resources go into the maintenance of a building, instead of those resources being spent on the maintenance of His body(the people) which is the temple of God. (A LIVING Structure)

That is not intended for any one denomination...in fact, why do we have denominations...when WE are ONE?

 

[Helen]

@VictoryinJesus Good.

Great, moving, interesting and also very sad...post. ✟

Bless you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLIfe:

Yes, I agree with you that the ‘one’ flesh in marriage means joint or ‘one’ fleshly thought(s) or their human nature in the same thought, their outer mind are as ‘one.’ This encompasses my definition of 'physical' as used in rituals, as both the actions of the outer mind and actions of the physical body. It is both components that work together and not just the natural mind.

This perfect 'one' flesh state is never actually a stable state though, as it drifts in and out and not always in congruence in life.

If this married couple are believers in Christ they also share the SAME 'one' spirit of God that united them in the first place, and then they continue to work as ONE spirit with the spirit of God. This greatly increased the stability of the 'one' flesh state.

This type of marriage and couple are both in Christ and the Father. That is why you will find most of the ‘strongest’ believers as married couples, not singles.

The spiritual God presence moves FIRST and then comes the state of ‘one’ flesh, SECOND.

I’m of the belief that many marriages never become ‘one’ flesh because they were never as ‘one’ spirit FIRST. They were not believers (or at least one is not) and the spirit of God could not guide them…together.

(Joh 6:63) It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. (ESV)

Yes, the verse above is well-fitting The spirit is everything and the flesh of the outer natural mind cannot bring eternal life, ever. It supports and synopses my writings well.

Bless you,

APAK

I can see your point, although I don't agree with you fully.
Your statement above in RED - I totally disagree with.

Paul was one of the strongest examples of faith in the NT and he was single. In fact he recommended the single life as a more excellent way to serve the Lord (1 Cor. 7:25-40). Jesus also recommended the celibate life for those who were able (Matt. 19:11).

 

[BreadOfLife]

I would rather be charitable than right, so I am sorry. My heart is to lift you higher and to encourage you; not beat you or your church down. I'll try my best to not make any further snide comments that discourage your mission. No matter where we disagree; we both love the Lord and His people. Philippians 1:18 [18] What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Yet, I am still left with one major frustration this morning. A large portion of tithes(what is brought into Gods storehouse) and His people money goes to the maintaining of administrative positions and the up keep of a building(dead structure). The church near us openly shares they are sitting on a million dollars. This is a small town church. The savings(reserves) are to build a bigger building( a dead structure). Last night, one of the church's members, hung himself. This man did the walk of religion; on the surface He appeared polished and put-right. He attended the meals and fellowship...yet no one saw his continual pretenses and desperation....Hunger and Thirst. My frustration is that so many resources go into the maintenance of a building, instead of those resources being spent on the maintenance of His body(the people) which is the temple of God. (A LIVING Structure)

That is not intended for any one denomination...in fact, why do we have denominations...when WE are ONE?

For starters - building maintenance costs are a reality of this world. You can't ask a congregation to meet in a field every week. Anyway, they would have to own and maintain the field.

Now, if this is aimed at the Catholic Church, which I'm not saying it is - the Catholic Church is perceived as being "filthy rich" - but the reality is quite different. For one - the Catholic church is THE largest single charitable organization in the world - dwarfing the charitable expenses of most countries:

- Charities run by the Church include 5,305 hospitals including 1694 in the Americas and 1,150 in Africa.
- The Church also has 18,179 clinics including 5,762 in the Americas and 5,312 in Africa 3,884 in Asia.
- It also manages 17,223 homes for old people, the terminally ill and the handicapped – most of them (8,021) in Europe and the Americas (5,650).
- It also runs 9,882 orphanages – a third of them in Asia.

This is just a PART of what the Church does with it's donations.

Finally - as to the man who hung himself - you can't blame a church for every action of one of its congregants or leaders. There are pople of ALL faiths and ALL walks of life who will despair.

One of my closest friends, who was more like a brother to me and an elder of his Protestant Church - shot himself a few years back. He was a godly man with a family, no drug or alcohol problems, he made good money - but for some reason, he despaired and took his life. I cannot blame his church for that. Something inside of him caused him to just give up.

Finally - why are there so many denominations?
That's a question that can be answered by going back to the 16th century . . .

 

[APAK]

I can see your point, although I don't agree with you fully.
Your statement above in RED - I totally disagree with.

Paul was one of the strongest examples of faith in the NT and he was single. In fact he recommended the single life as a more excellent way to serve the Lord (1 Cor. 7:25-40). Jesus also recommended the celibate life for those who were able (Matt. 19:11).

BreadOfLife:

Yes, I agree, those men were 'strong' the Lord, I agree. I would not set any wager on the men of today having the same spirit and determination or zeal for the Lord. Of course there are many exceptions.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLife:

Yes, I agree, those men were 'strong' the Lord, I agree. I would not set any wager on the men of today having the same spirit and determination or zeal for the Lord. Of course there are many exceptions.

Bless you,

APAK

Now, that I agree with.
Celibacy and the single life is not for everyone - but, neither is marriage.