A polite question for pretribbers

[Marilyn C]

1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Hi ewq,

Now Jay said - Everybody, whether saint or sinner, is resurrected to face the final judgement.

That is what I was referring to. And yes, we are `judged` on whether we operated in the Spirit or in the flesh. (1 Cor. 3: 12 - 15)
However, the judgment is NOT whether we will live or be condemned.

 

[Marilyn C]

No, it doesn't.

God`s word says differently.

First resurrection - is to LIFE.
Second resurrection - is to condemnation. (John 5: 29)

The law of first mention applies. So, whenever someone is resurrected it can be ONLY to life or to condemnation. It means the TYPE of resurrection not an order. Always good to see how God explains what He means.

What is hard to understand about what God has written there in John 5: 29?

 

[Jay Ross]

Those in the Body of Christ DO NOT face judgment. That is what the Lord did for us. That is our salvation. saved from judgment!!!!!!

Daniel is talking about Israel.

`At that time Michael shall stand up, the great Prince who stands watch over the SONS OF YOUR PEOPLE:...` (Dan. 12 1)

Always good to read the CONTEXT.

But that is your opinion as to what the verses state. I just have a very different opinion. The question that I have is, "Is there a contextual connection between verse 1 and verses 2-3 as you are suggesting.

It seems to me that you are reading these three verses to come to the conclusion you are desiring.

So be it.

Have a good day now.

 

[ewq1938]

God`s word says differently.

I said:

Yes they do and I have already proven it. "first resurrection" and "rise first" is speaking of the same exact event of the dead in Christ coming back to physical life.

You said:

God`s word says differently.

You remain wrong.

 

[Jay Ross]

The question is, "Why aren't all of them that sleep in the ground raised then? Why MANY of them?"

That is a good question.

Perhaps the context in the original Hebrew is a little different. Daniel 12:1 is applicable only to the righteous descendants of Israel, whereas Daniel 12:2-3 is a reference to the many nations and their people who will be blessed through the Israelite nation. Of the many Gentiles who sleep in the dust of the earth, some will be raised up to everlasting life, while the rest will experience shame and everlasting horrors.

It is just a thought on my part.

 

[Marilyn C]

But that is your opinion as to what the verses state. I just have a very different opinion. The question that I have is, "Is there a contextual connection between verse 1 and verses 2-3 as you are suggesting.

It seems to me that you are reading these three verses to come to the conclusion you are desiring.

So be it.

Have a good day now.

The Body of Christ revelation was not revealed until the Lord ascended, was made Head of His Body and then sent the Holy Spirit to reveal the revelation to the Apostle Paul. (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)

Thus, Daniel could NOT have been talking about the Body of Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

The question is, Why aren't all of them that sleep in the ground raised then. Why MANY of them?

Because not all the dead rise at the same time. See Rev 20, where the saved are of the first resurrection while "the rest of the dead" didn't rise until after the thousand years.

 

[Jay Ross]

The Body of Christ revelation was not revealed until the Lord ascended, was made Head of His Body and then sent the Holy Spirit to reveal the revelation to the Apostle Paul. (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)

Thus, Daniel could NOT have been talking about the Body of Christ.

Marilyn, you have just proved my point, with your Darwinian proposal on the revealing of God's to the people of the planet. Christ Himself told His disciples that their salvation was based on a covenant that had been in existence since the time of Adam, but which had been retweeted/refurbished by Him.

Have a good day now, you hear me?

 

[Truth7t7]

That is a good question.

Perhaps the context in the original Hebrew is a little different. Daniel 12:1 is applicable only to the righteous descendants of Israel, whereas Daniel 12:2-3 is a reference to the many nations and their people who will be blessed through the Israelite nation. Of the many Gentiles who sleep in the dust of the earth, some will be raised up to everlasting life, while the rest will experience shame and everlasting horrors.

It is just a thought on my part.

Daniel was speaking of the last day resurrection and final judgement of all, John 5:28-29 and Revelation 20:11-15 are parallel readings of this same event

You will closely note the book of life has been opened, this is the final judgement

Same Event Of Tge Last Day Resurrection And Final Judgement

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, you have just proved my point, with your Darwinian proposal on the revealing of God's to the people of the planet. Christ Himself told His disciples that their salvation was based on a covenant that had been in existence since the time of Adam, but which had been retweeted/refurbished by Him.

Have a good day now, you hear me?

?????

 

[Truth7t7]

?????

I Agree, ????????

 

[ewq1938]

?????

I Agree, ????????

You are both wrong:


??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I had to look up what that word means. No, I'm really not. But, whatever.

Oh, I don’t really know what spitfire means. I may be thinking it means something it doesn’t.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The Body of Christ revelation was not revealed until the Lord ascended, was made Head of His Body and then sent the Holy Spirit to reveal the revelation to the Apostle Paul. (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)

Thus, Daniel could NOT have been talking about the Body of Christ.

A quick examination of that makes it make no sense to me…
Something can be concealed but not yet revealed.

Which doesn’t make your assertion wrong necessarily. I just don’t think it’s a strong argument FOR your assertion.

 

[Nancy]

Oh, I don’t really know what spitfire means. I may be thinking it means something it doesn’t.

"What does calling someone a Spitfire mean?
a quick-tempered or highly emotional person"
Or: an old British fighter plane. I'm no plane but guess I could be called a "spitfire"

 

[stunnedbygrace]

"What does calling someone a Spitfire mean?
a quick-tempered or highly emotional person"
Or: an old British fighter plane. I'm no plane but guess I could be called a "spitfire"

You COULD be a plane if you got that scooter goin’ fast enough.
jazzys’ ears would act as wings then.

 

[Nancy]

You COULD be a plane if you got that scooter goin’ fast enough.
jazzys’ ears would act as wings then.

Lol...can't wait till next Spring as I really want to get her on it. She is sure small enough to just fasten around my waste...even have goggles for her! Hahaha.

 

[Jay Ross]

It seems the Spitfire plane was named because: -



Oh well, seems that at present the thread has gone off in the wide blue yonder and has become lost. Hope the pilot of the plot has a map to work out where she is and can bring/return to the OP.

 

[marks]

A quick examination of that makes it make no sense to me…
Something can be concealed but not yet revealed.

Which doesn’t make your assertion wrong necessarily. I just don’t think it’s a strong argument FOR your assertion.

The argument is in the meaning of mysterion, translated mystery, which means, something hidden, unable to be understood or discerned, until it is revealed. There wasn't previous revelation, not even a little. Daniel did not reveal the church, and his prophesies are not about the church, that is, the body of Christ. It's how the word was used.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Meh, I don’t know. I don’t think I see gathered believers in the OT as so different from gathered believers in the NT.
A gathering, a congregation, a meeting group of the elect/chosen of God, a covenant people, a royal priesthood, a peculiar treasure of Gods, a chosen generation.

It could maybe be argued that the church previously concealed can now be seen in, I will make a new covenant with my people and write My law on their hearts.

But I’m certainly not going to get into an in-depth conversation on it as I’ve never gone searching to see if I find any or many hidden references and it’s of no great importance to me.