Because there came a time when those who disbelieve the Trinity overran the board with threads pushing that point. Many of them became contentious, so the topic was, at least for a time, banned.
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A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses
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Runningman
Active Member
Runningman
Active Member
That does seem to be the primary disagreement over the Trinity. Nope, 1 cannot be 3, and 3 cannot be 1, so, no Trinity. Except there are so many passages that just won't make any clear sense without recognizing that God is the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
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Truth may or may not be "infectious" as you claim, but this I do know, the anti-trinitarians were very contentious.
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Keiw
Well-Known Member
Catholicism altered certain passages in their translating to fit false council teachings. Every trinity translation is altered.
Many NT passages speak about God and Jesus always separate. Like Rev 1:1-A Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him. Did God say--here me have a revelation= No.
Don't the Greek lexicons you a referring to have both upper case and lower case lettering (unlike the original writings)?
The WatchTower ALTERED the most important doctrine in the Bible to change the perfectly clear meaning that Jesus is God! Just like Satan!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Oh, isn’t the most important doctrine what Jesus said is the most important commandment, the Sh’ma?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Jesus, THE Savior isn't the most important doctrine in the Bible??? WOW!
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Berean
Member
I wasn't aware the Scriptures taught a spirit anointed 2nd class Christian ... do tell.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
There is a single reason God is called Ton Theon when another is called Theon in the same paragraph Ton Theon = God, Theon = god. God is called Theon in many passages when by himself. Because one knows its speaking of God. The only word in Greek for God, god is Theon, the only way one could tell the difference when 2 are called Theon in the same paragraph, Ton preceded=God and plain Theon then = god. Just like occurs at 2 Cor 4:4 it occurs at John 1:1.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
It’s OK my brother.....Jesus will set them straight...we’ve tried, but you can’t get past the indoctrination...it’s been there for too long...ingrained over many centuries....you can tell it’s set in concrete....pity.
Many times. Occam’s Razor applies well here.
Who was Jesus’ God? Who did he worship? Yes, it is simple.
First off, I didn’t say it. A trinitarian Catholic priest said it.
You know, in your relatively short reply, you asked 7 questions. Many times I find that, in a debate, when the opposing side asks so many questions, the intent is to cloud the issue.
But really, I think Mr. McKenzie was quite clear: the text isn’t saying Jesus was God, but rather, as other translations have worded it, Jesus was a god, a god-like being, or a divine being.
Examples:
▪ 1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.
▪ 1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
▪ 1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
▪ 1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
▪ 1864: "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
▪ 1867: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
▪ 1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
▪ 1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
▪ 1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
▪ 1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
▪ 1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.
▪ 1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed (J. L. Tomanec, 1958)
▪ 1966, 2001: "...and he was the same as God" – The Good News Bible
▪ 1970, 1989: "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible
▪ 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
▪ 1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
▪ 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
Some use the term "divine." (1) Trinitarian Moffatt's popular New Translation of the Bible and (2) trinitarian Smith-Goodspeed's An American Translation both say that the Word "was divine." The translations by (3) Boehmer, (4) Stage, and (5) Menge all say the Word was "of divine being."
Late 2nd or early 3rd century CE “and a god was the Word” - The Sahidic Coptic Version (an early Egyptian text based on the Greek alphabet)
1768 “and was himself a divine person” - Edward Harwood, A Liberal Translation of the New Testament
There are more that agree with the above.
The Gospel of John was written in Koine, or common Greek, which has specific rules regarding the use of the definite article. Biblical scholar A. T. Robertson avers that if both subject and predicate have articles, “both are definite, treated as identical, one and the same, and interchangeable.” Robertson considers as an example Matthew 13:38, which reads: “The field [Greek, ho a·grosʹ] is the world [Greek, ho koʹsmos].” The grammar enables us to understand that the world is also the field.
What, though, if the subject has a definite article but the predicate does not, as in John 1:1? Citing that verse as an example, scholar James Allen Hewett emphasizes: “In such a construction the subject and predicate are not the same, equal, identical, or anything of the sort.”
To illustrate, Hewett uses 1 John 1:5, which says: “God is light.” In Greek, “God” is ho the·osʹ and therefore has a definite article. But phos for “light” is not preceded by any article. Hewett points out: “One can always . . . say of God He is characterized by light; one cannot always say of light that it is God.” Similar examples are found at John 4:24, “God is a Spirit,” and at 1 John 4:16, “God is love.” In both of these verses, the subjects have definite articles but the predicates, “Spirit” and “love,” do not. So the subjects and predicates are not interchangeable. These verses cannot mean that “Spirit is God” or “love is God.”
So, it would be inaccurate to say “this is a construction by JW’s”
Regarding your comment on “Gods many and Lords many”…. please read the Apostle Paul’s words at 1 Corinthians 8:5,6.
So there are other gods & lords, which people accept for themselves. But to clarify: who did Paul mention was the “one God” for him and other Christians?
I ask again: Don't the Greek lexicons you a referring to have both upper case and lower case lettering?
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