A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[Runningman]

NWT 1970 Heb 1 Let all God's angels WORSHIP him! Michael is an angel who worships Jesus! Jesus is God!

That doesn't mean Jesus is God either. When Jesus is bowed to in heaven, earth, or under earth he doesn't get any glory for it. The glory only goes to God who is the Father.

Philippians 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Jack]

I would also add that the kind of bowing down to that God ordered His angels to give to the Son was for the glory of the Father (Philippians 2:10,11) but the kind of worship that Jesus taught Christians to give was of the order of "spirit and truth" to the Father only in John 4:23,24.

So true Biblical worship actually has very little, if anything, to do with prostration. True worship is offering our bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is our spiritual service of worship. We do not be conform to this world, but are being transformed by the renewing of our mind.

So your argument is worship doesn't mean worship. Typical JW argument.

 

[Jack]

That doesn't mean Jesus is God either.

Yes it does. ONLY God is to be worshiped.

When Jesus is bowed to in heaven, earth, or under earth he doesn't get any glory for it. The glory only goes to God who is the Father.

Philippians 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Runningman]

So your argument is worship doesn't mean worship. Typical JW argument.

I am not a JW, but I do understand that those who just bow down are not actually worshipping in the way Jesus instructed them to. Bowing down with a heart far from God really means nothing. Does that make sense?

 

[Runningman]

Yes it does. ONLY God is to be worshiped.

Correct and Jesus was never worshipped as God, but bowed down to in honor. True worship is spirit and truth, not bowing. Jesus only taught Christians to worship the Father in spirit and truth, therefore Jesus was never worshipped as God. (John 4)

 

[Jack]

I am not a JW, but I do understand that those who just bow down are not actually worshipping in the way Jesus instructed them to. Bowing down with a heart far from God really means nothing. Does that make sense?

That's great that you're not JW but you still use a JW argument, 'the Bible doesn't mean what it says'. Do you also deny the ETERNAL Hell fire?

 

[Jack]

Correct and Jesus was never worshipped as God, but bowed down to in honor. True worship is spirit and truth, not bowing. Jesus only taught Christians to worship the Father in spirit and truth, therefore Jesus was never worshipped as God. (John 4)

John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my GOD"!

 

[Runningman]

That's great that you're not JW but you still use a JW argument, 'the Bible doesn't mean what it says'.

I am just using Biblical arguments. That's why I don't really have a problem with the JWs.

Do you also deny the ETERNAL Hell fire?

Is the fire eternal or is the punishment in hell eternal? Let's put it this way, the gospel is clear that only those who receive the gift of eternal life will live forever. Do you agree? Therefore, those in hell do not receive the gift of eternal life.

 

[Runningman]

John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my GOD"!

In John 20:17 Jesus said of his brothers (the disciples) that their God is the Father.

Therefore, when Thomas said "my God" in John 20:28 Thomas was referring to the Father, not that Jesus is God.

 

[Jack]

I am just using Biblical arguments. That's why I don't really have a problem with the JWs.

UTTER contradiction!

Is the fire eternal or is the punishment in hell eternal?

Absolutely! Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER!

Let's put it this way, the gospel is clear that only those who receive the gift of eternal life will live forever. Do you agree? Therefore, those in hell do not receive the gift of eternal life.

So you don't read the Bible!

 

[Jack]

In John 20:17 Jesus said of his brothers (the disciples) that their God is the Father.

Therefore, when Thomas said "my God" in John 20:28 Thomas was referring to the Father, not that Jesus is God.

Thomas was speaking directly to Jesus, calling Jesus "My Lord and my God"!

 

[Runningman]

UTTER contradiction!

Absolutely! Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER!

Who?

So you don't read the Bible!

You believe those in hell receive the gift of eternal life? One of us is indeed not reading the Bible.

 

[Runningman]

Thomas was speaking directly to Jesus, calling Jesus "My Lord and my God"!

But Thomas' God is the Father according to scripture. The Father is the only true God (John 17:3) and Thomas didn't say "You" are my God. So the context isn't about Jesus being Thomas' God. Jesus didn't say he's God, no one in the Bible believed Jesus is God.

Acts 4:24-27, Peter and John both prayed to God the Sovereign Lord and Creator and said Jesus is His servant. They didn't believe Jesus is God either.

 

[Jack]

Who?

So you agree Hell Fire is forever! Good.

You believe those in hell receive the gift of eternal life? One of us is indeed not reading the Bible.

You sure sound JW!

 

[Runningman]

So you agree Hell Fire is forever! Good.

Strawman.

You sure sound JW!

According to scripture, the gospel is for eternal life. Those with eternal life don't live forever in hell. Sorry, your presentation of your beliefs don't align with scripture.

 

[Jack]

But Thomas' God is the Father according to scripture.

Thomas said his God is Jesus!

The Father is the only true God (John 17:3) and Thomas didn't say "You" are my God.

Yes he did. lol

So the context isn't about Jesus being Thomas' God. Jesus didn't say he's God, no one in the Bible believed Jesus is God.

Paul did. Peter did. John did.

Acts 4:24-27, Peter and John both prayed to God the Sovereign Lord and Creator and said Jesus is His servant. They didn't believe Jesus is God either.

Yes they did!

 

[Runningman]

Thomas said his God is Jesus!

Jesus said Thomas' God is the Father in John 20:17.

Yes he did. lol

Please show us where the word "you" appears in John 20:28 lol

Paul did. Peter did. John did.

Where?

Yes they did!

Where?

 

[Jack]

Strawman.

Bible!

According to scripture, the gospel is for eternal life. Those with eternal life don't live forever in hell. Sorry, your presentation of your beliefs don't align with scripture.

Yes they do! Want Scripture?

 

[Runningman]

Yes they do! Want Scripture?

Oh this should be good. Please show us the scripture that contradicts the Bible's teachings on eternal life given to those who are saved.

 

[Jack]

Jesus said Thomas' God is the Father in John 20:17.

Thomas called Jesus GOD!

Jesus said Thomas' God is the Father in John 20:17.

And Thomas called Jesus "My GOD"!

Please show us where the word "you" appears in John 20:28 lol

See above.

Where?

Col 1 By Jesus all things were created!

Where?

John 1 The Word was God. The Word became flesh ... Peter said "Lord you know ALL THINGS"! ONLY God knows all things!

Please show us where the word "you" appears in John 20:28 lol

Where?

Where?