A rather rhetorical question for the "Hell is FOREVER" crowd

[Ronald Nolette]

Many of you believe that our loving creator sends much of his creation to suffer horribly in Hell FOREVER. Here is my question. How many different forms of torture do you believe our loving creator uses to torture his creation?

Fire, brimstone, darkness and absence of His presence! Just like the bible says.

You need to remember that it is man who rebelled against god. And yes god is loving but never forget His highest attribute is He is perfect in holiness. His love cannot embrace what cannot stand in the presence of HIs holiness. If one rejects teh saviot the bible has made it clear that at death their eternity is sealed.

 

[marks]

It means abandoned is the field to defend the original assertion. FWIW, normally the OP is the original assertion in the thread, not the counter to the OP, as you imply here. I agree with the OP.

It gets confusing when you say original assertion by don't mean the OP but a poster's counter-assertion to the OP, yes?

Yes, I agree . . . sorry! . . . so then, that is, his assertion is not rendered false due to subsequent ad hominems, only that the ad hominem does not provide support for his assertion.

Much love!

 

[Bob Estey]

Since you admit this, then it should not be a problem to accept what the Bible says about Hell (the Lake of Fire). Ultimately it is not human opinions but the Word of God which is the final authority.

Actually, it is God who is the final authority, I believe.

 

[Enoch111]

Actually, it is God who is the final authority, I believe.

Sure God is the final authority and that is why we have His written Word. That is directly from God to you.

 

[Bob Estey]

Sure God is the final authority and that is why we have His written Word. That is directly from God to you.

Yes, God and Jesus are quoted frequently in the Bible.

 

[Charlie24]

@Wrangler

My posts were deleted, as they should have been. I'm not ignorant to the rules of these boards, so I have no excuse! The rules are necessary and I have crossed the line!

There's a fine line between the Scripture and the necessary rules of man on these boards. I suppose over the years that line has become blurry for me. I've opted for the boldness of those who penned the Scripture over the rules.

I know it's just a matter of time that the same will happen again, somehow, somewhere. It's become obvious to me that my time on these boards have come an end. I can no longer stay true to Scripture as I see fit, and at the same time obey the rules of man on these boards. It's a very touchy situation on the boards, and I am no longer able to abide by it.

I apologize for offending you, and hope to one day meet you in Glory!

 

[Patrick1966]

Yes, God and Jesus are quoted frequently in the Bible.

 

[Patrick1966]

I can no longer stay true to Scripture as I see fit, and at the same time obey the rules of man on these boards.

Be humble.

Be loving.

Be kind.

And follow the scriptures by following the authorities.

That's it.

 

[Taken]

Many of you believe that our loving creator sends much of his creation to suffer horribly in Hell FOREVER. Here is my question. How many different forms of torture do you believe our loving creator uses to torture his creation?

Regarding SOULS of Humans;

* A PORTION of Hell is a PLACE for Departed LIVING SOULS of individuals, WHO while their SOUL was IN their FLESH LIVING BODY:
Rejected Gods Offering to be WITH Him Forever.

* THAT PORTION:
IS VOID, of God to Hear their voice, prayers, acknowledgment.
IS VOID, of Light, Gods Blessings, Gods Gifts.
IS VOID, of pleasant sights, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching.
^^^^^ IS THE TORTURE a departed Living soul shall experience.
^^^^^ FOR “HOW LONG” SHALL a Departed Living soul Experience Separation FROM God? FOREVER!
^^^^^ FOR “HOW LONG” SHALL a Departed Living soul Experience
Torture? UNTIL, JUDGEMENT DAY!

* “WHAT” happens ON “THEIR” Judgement Day?
~ their body is raised from dust, TO Hell.
~ their living soul is returned to their body, IN Hell.
~ they SEE the Lord (their Judge) Standing Before them.
~ they BOW DOWN (Worship) Him.
~ The BOOKS of LIFE (evidence) are OPENED.
~ Their NAME is Blotted out of Gods Book of Life.
~ Their NAME was Never Entered into the Lambs Book of Life.
~ Their SENTENCE (based on the evidence), is eternal DEATH.
~ LIFE of their SOUL (Gods Breath) returns to God.
~ LIFE of their BODY (Blood) is already DEAD.
~ Their “LIFELESS” SOUL and BODY is thrown into the FIRE “PIT” in Hell.
~ They BURN to DUST, are FORGOTTEN, remembered NO MORE.

* HOW IS THAT ETERNAL “TORTURE” ?
(WHEN, they see, hear, taste, feel NOTHING?)

God IS JUST.
Every man SHALL BE with or without God FOREVER, as that individual man CHOSE.
Every angel SHALL BE with or without God FOREVER, as that individual angel CHOSE.

ETERNAL “TORTURE” ONLY” Applies to a “THING” that CAN NEVER DIE!

ETERNAL TORTURE APPLIES to “SPIRITS”....CELESTIAL created Spirits, THAT (by their own freewill) chose to GO AGAINST God.

Anti-GOD Flesh Body’s of TERRESTRIAL men, and Souls of those TERRESTRIAL men ARE DESTROYED WITHOUT HAVING EVER RECEIVED a FOREVER LIVING BORN AGAIN SPIRIT.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[St. SteVen]

I think it's more accurate to say that there will always be a hell for people who want to sin.

How unfortunate.
Everyone WANTS to sin. Is it not a struggle we all face?
Do you hope there is enough room for everyone?

What did Jesus say about it?

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

 

[St. SteVen]

We are told that there will be weeping and wailing and the gnashing of teeth.

Odd. That sounds like a salvation experience. (true repentance?)
But you think God will just look away? (and not save)

WE will all realise that God's judgement of those who hate him is perfectly just.

Anyone who claims to hate God hasn't met Him yet.

The use of emotive words like ' torture ' only shows a little,e of understand about God's Holiness and our sinfulness.
None of us deserve God's mercy and those who reject it are guilt of being sinners and guilty of despising God's offer of mercy.

Right, let's not get all emotional about human souls burning in agony for eternity with no hope of escape.
Just be glad it's not you, or your relatives. Oh wait... will you have relatives there?

We all know what torture is. You can't whitewash it by claiming it's not torture when God does it.
If there was a hell as described by the church, it would only take ten seconds to get the message.
An eternity of that would be pointless and sadistic torture.

I'm not willing to blame God for that. Consider this...

GOOGLE question; "when was the word hell invented?"

GOOGLE's answer;
About 17,400,000 results (0.46 seconds)

The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (first attested around 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period. cc: @Hillsage

 

[St. SteVen]

Since you admit this, then it should not be a problem to accept what the Bible says about Hell (the Lake of Fire). Ultimately it is not human opinions but the Word of God which is the final authority.

The doctrine of hell is a human opinion.
There are three biblical doctrines of the final judgment. (human opinions)
- Damnationism
- Annihilationism
- Ultimate Redemption (UR)

 

[St. SteVen]

So dramatic.

The original translation from Greek was botched, quite possibly on purpose.

There are countless verses from multiple Bible authors that demonstrate that ALL will be saved in the end.

Agree. Here's some info about that.

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

 

[St. SteVen]

Silly question. God does not "torture".

Do you have a better descriptor for a human soul burning forever with no hope of escape?
If that's not the most cruel and sadistic torture ever conceived, I don't know what is.
Please inform us.

Seems to me that hell was invented by the church, not God.
No human tyrant has done anything on the level that God is blamed for.
Makes the holocaust look like a Sunday School picnic in comparison.

 

[St. SteVen]

they send themselves there Don’t blame Jesus, He paid their debt, they rejected his gift.

Thanks for giving us the party line. Blame the victim.

 

[St. SteVen]

ETERNAL TORTURE APPLIES to “SPIRITS”....CELESTIAL created Spirits, THAT (by their own freewill) chose to GO AGAINST God.

Countless billions have gone into the afterlife with no knowledge of the gospel.

 

[Grailhunter]

Many of you believe that our loving creator sends much of his creation to suffer horribly in Hell FOREVER. Here is my question. How many different forms of torture do you believe our loving creator uses to torture his creation?

The Bible does not give us much information on Heaven or Hell.....that does not mean they are not real. Both are not physical places as our reality. Hell fire, can you cook on it? Spiritual fire? What is that like? Fire is the worst thing these people could understand.....what if it is actually 10 times worse?

In modern times we have settled into the live and let live mentality.....Good and evil....God has not joined the live a let live crowd.
Some might think that letting evil in Heaven would not be a bad thing? Live and let live? Heaven full of evil.

We do not know how many horrors are in Hell.

Birds of a feather flock together......People need to think long and hard about picking sides to being on good or evil.

 

[St. SteVen]

They don't want that. That's why they end up in the lake of fire. They do not want to be reborn.

Can anyone come to God that is not drawn by the Spirit? (nope)

The Elect were predestined to life, meaning those not elected were predestined to death,
if we are to believe the common doctrine about hell.

 

[St. SteVen]

Interesting post, thanks.

The Bible does not give us much information on Heaven or Hell.....

Agreed.

We do not know how many horrors are in Hell. ...
Fire is the worst thing these people could understand.....what if it is actually 10 times worse? ...

Perfect threat for spiritual extortion by the church. Do what we say, or else.

In modern times we have settled into the live and let live mentality.....Good and evil....God has not joined the live a let live crowd.
Some might think that letting evil in Heaven would not be a bad thing? Live and let live? Heaven full of evil.

Just to be clear, Christian Universalists do not claim that anyone gets into heaven full of evil.
Even Christians will need correction and restoration. Jesus said it best.

Matthew 21:31 NIV
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

Birds of a feather flock together......People need to think long and hard about picking sides to being on good or evil.

Are you claiming that those not on the side of a forever burning hell with no hope of escape are on the side of evil?

 

[St. SteVen]

Eternally Grateful said:
they send themselves there Don’t blame Jesus, He paid their debt, they rejected his gift.

I'd disagree. All who were not found written in the Lamb's book of life will be tossed into the lake of fire. It's done to them, decreed by God.

It will be righteous and true judgment.

Much love!

That's a great response actually. The "blame the victim" apologetic is false. God is responsible for his actions.
If there is a hell, he created it. (with malice and forethought) Or alternatively, God's mercies are never-ending.