A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

[Aunty Jane]

The question of what year it is has everything to do with celebrating birthdays. And you know it.

Do I? Perhaps you are confusing the fact that someone can turn a year older without actually celebrating it. What’s to celebrate?......and who said that we should?......especially by retaining the pagan customs that have remained the same since they were adopted from false worshippers. The God of Israel told them NOT to imitate the ways of the nations....since we worship the same God, should Christians do less? Has he changed?

You are relying on Old Covenant rules that never applied to Gentiles.

Gentiles were not free to retain the pagan elements of their former worship. All that had to be left behind. Just as it was when Gentiles chose to become worshippers of Jehovah in Israel. They had to abandon all former religious beliefs and involve themselves fully in Jehovah’s worship....they had to live as Jews lived and that entailed strictly obeying all the laws that God gave Israel. Becoming a Jewish proselyte meant leaving all forms of false religion behind.
Is that what we see with pagan celebrations dressed up as “Christian” festivals, or ones that come from false worship that are just now human tradition. Don’t forget that human traditions are what derailed Judaism...

In our culture, we honor people by celebrating their birthday.

Culture has little to do with it if we are talking about false religious practices.
Birthdays were originally celebrated only by pagans with clear links to astrology and divination. Just because those elements are not prominent in the way people celebrate today.....can’t we see that the elements or customs remain the same.

But that is for you to work out for yourself.....I haven’t celebrated a birthday since I was a teenager......and I do not miss them. When we had a party for our kids, it was never a birthday party, but simply a gathering of friends who were invited to have a nice time and to eat and drink and enjoy themselves with no one as the prominent one in the gathering. We always made sure that the one hosting the party had a small gift for all who were invited. The emphasis was always on giving, rather than receiving. True happiness is experienced this way.

Those who need an excuse for giving have lost the true spirit of it....

 

[Wrangler]

Perhaps you are confusing the fact that someone can turn a year older without actually celebrating it. What’s to celebrate?

You turning older has nothing to do with what year this is.

Gentiles were not free to retain the pagan elements of their former worship.

Celebrating people’s birthday’s has nothing to do with worship - in our culture.

 

[Wrangler]

Culture has little to do with it if we are talking about false religious practices.

There you go again, confusing a cultural tradition with a false religious practice.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Wow @Wrangler....you cannot see what is right under your nose.....birthdays were celebrated in paganism for spiritistic purposes....people still keep to the traditions as they were practised by the pagans centuries ago. Birthdays were inextricably linked to astrology and divination. You think God turns a blind eye because you want to hold to a tradition of men? On what basis can you do so?

Of course, you can do as you wish, but you can never say that no one told you God’s side of the story as it is presented in the Bible....we are told to “touch” nothing that is spiritually “unclean”....how did you *wash* it to make it acceptable to God?

There you go again, confusing a cultural tradition with a false religious practice.

If culture is based on false religion, then how does God feel about that? Was true religion not good enough?

As a Jew, Jesus would have refused to celebrate his own birthday because of obedience to God’s law....why would we invoke false religious practices to pretend that these are somehow now acceptable to a God who told us not to touch them. Justification works...but not on Jehovah. You cannot separate the tradition from its pagan roots. God knows where they come from...you can pretend that God doesn’t care....I won’t insult him that way.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, that is you applying scripture to those who disagree with what you want to believe....big difference.

That is your opinion- but wrong. If Scripture is clear on something we should speak it in love and boldly.

Whose lies are you believing? Could it be at all possible that satan has deceived the whole world? (1 John 5:19) What makes you immune? Those whom Jesus rejects at the judgment have no idea that their Christianity is nothing more than a satanic lie....you couldn’t possibly be among them...could you? (Matthew 7:21-23) This is something we all need to ask ourselves....what does it mean to BE a “Christian”?

No I am not immune. We all can fall prey to angel of light lies.

And no I cannot be among those whom Jesus says He never knew in Matt. 7. How can I be so sure? Because I know Jesus died for me and paid my sin debt before God and made me a new creature in Him and gave me eternal life, not temporary eternal life, like John said in His Epistles. I do not fear death, because I know in whom I believe in and serve.

Well I am away for 10 days. Tomorrow I take my wife on a vacation that for us is long overdue. she works in a hospital and covid has run her ragged.

 

[Dropship]

Aunty Jane said- "Does it not strike you as strange that Christendom does not have a single celebration that does not have pagan origins?
..The latest techniques have made blood transfusions basically obsolete. Alternative procedures save lives, transfusions do not.
..why does Yahweh (Jehovah in English) need a name? Because there are a multitude of “gods” worshipped in the world and he is the one who told us his name."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dropship replies-
1- I don't know any Christians who celebrate paganism or any other mickey mouse "religion"..
2- If JW's think blood business is a con, why don't they raise a stink about it so that everybody will know?
3- Only false "gods" need a name to tell each other apart, but our God doesn't need one because he's the only God there is..

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Any who actually know God, knows 100% his justice scales make a literal eternal suffering an impossibility. Do you understand JUSTICE??????? All of Gods ways are justice-Deut 32:4-- he taught all justice= an eye for an eye= perfect balance. So for 70-100 years of unrepented sinful life God could not or would not condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of punishment to suffer. Only a sadist would do such a thing. Proving 100% you or your religions do not know God. It was symbolism. The true God=Deut 30:19--He set before all. life or death.

Actually anyone who knows God knows that perfect justice requires eternal reward and etrernal punishment---JUST AS HIS WORD SAYS.

GOD REWARDS ONE WHO FOR 70-80 YEARS LIVED BY FAITH, HE ALSO PUNISHES THOSE ETERNALLY WHO LIVE REJECTING CHRIST AND HIS PHYSICAL RESURRECTION.

You also need to learn progressive knowledge in the bible and that death has more than one meaning.

God told
Adam the day He ate the fruit, he would die. He didn't die physically. But because you have been taught to reject teh souland spirit of man- you cannot see beyond the edge of you rose on this.

Well come tomorrow I wll be offline for 10 days. I am taking my wife on a long overdue vacation. Covid has run her ragged and we have not had a break in over three years.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

He spoke those words to the little flock. 12,000 from the 12 tribes= symbolism. Literal Israel is cut off of being Gods chosen-Matt 23:38-39. Spiritual Israel, meaning Gods chosen is being spoken of in revelation. Those who lived back in Jesus day of the little flock were literal Israel at one point, until God cut Israel off for hating his son, then sending him to die. A new religion began-Acts 24:5--Jesus spoke to Churches( actually congregation is the correct translating of that Greek word) in Revelation, not synagogues.

As usual you are wrong. Paul made it clear Israel is not cut off in Romans. The Watchtower has deceived you into theinnking the 144,000 Jews of Revelation are the only ones to be born again.

And you still did not answer what the Watchtower conjures up as the meaning of that symbolism. God went to great length to describe the contents of the 144,000, but they just pooh-pooh it off.

Jesus said you must be born again, The Watchtower forbids you!

Now you have to do some thinking for yourself. In the archives of Watchtower material, we know they teach only the 144,000 can partake of communion. Well every year they would issue reports on how many partook. It was as high as 20,000+. Alos as the Watchtower publicly purged many of the so called 144,000 to make room for others that number is even higher.

NHow you have to think for yourself here. Do you really think that in nearly 2000 years since Jesus physically rose and then ascended to heaven there were less than 120,000 born again people, while in less than a century the Watchtower claims there about 25,000? Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church but the Watchtower implies much differently.

 

[Wrangler]

Wow @Wrangler....you cannot see what is right under your nose. birthdays were celebrated in paganism for spiritistic purposes

Wrong. I totally see. What WAS is not what IS. You are turning a blind eye to cultural appropriation.

The swatstika WAS in a different culture a symbol that means peace. People in the West no longer connect that meaning to that symbol. Same with the Confederate flag. Same with birthday celebration. Same with the word gay.

You cannot cite one verse in Scripture, especially the NT, that prohibits celebrating birthdays. And you still refuse to answer the question of what year it is.

 

[Wrangler]

If culture is based on false religion, then how does God feel about that?

Aren’t you the one who was lecturing about not going by feelings?

For some reason, you are equating or connecting things that are only connected by history. The cross WAS a tool of torture but Christian’s do not use that symbol to honor torture tools. It has taken on new meaning.

If you ask my grandkids what Christmas and Easter is about, they will answer culturally. It means getting candy and exchanging gifts. That’s what it means.

As they grow, they may connect it to Christianity but our culture does NOT connect it to the Pagan appropriation.

I think you realize opposing bearing the cross because it began as a tool of torture is foolish. Before I say more, please confirm how the cross stands with JW things to condemn?

 

[Wrangler]

@Aunty Jane, one more thing. Where in Scripture does it say celebrating birthdays is demonic?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Wrong. I totally see. What WAS is not what IS. You are turning a blind eye to cultural appropriation.

Jehovah was there when what WAS was celebrated.....and if we are told clearly NOT to fuse or blend true worship with false worship (2 Cor 6:14-18) then what IS becomes what WAS in God’s eyes...and his view is all that matters to us.

The swatstika WAS in a different culture a symbol that means peace. People in the West no longer connect that meaning to that symbol. Same with the Confederate flag. Same with birthday celebration. Same with the word gay.

Appropriation does not change anything in reality...only in the minds of those who use association to define it in a different way.
The swatstika for example...”As a result of World War II and the Holocaust, in the West it continues to be strongly associated with Nazism, antisemitism,[20][21] white supremacism,[22][23] or simply evil.[24][25] As a consequence, its use in some countries, including Germany, is prohibited by law.Swastika - Wikipedia However, the swastika remains a symbol of good luck and prosperity in Hindu, Buddhist and Jain countries such as Nepal, India, Thailand, Mongolia, Sri Lanka, China and Japan, and by some peoples, such as the Navajo people of the Southwest United States. It is also commonly used in Hindu marriage ceremonies and Dipavali celebrations.” (Wiki)
So depending upon which nation and religion you belong to, it’s meaning remains as it always was.

You cannot cite one verse in Scripture, especially the NT, that prohibits celebrating birthdays.

Since it is well established that the celebration of birthdays had false religious origins, connected to astrology and spiritism, (both clearly condemned in God’s word) those origins are not forgotten by God just because humans want to continue to practice something they like.

The “angel of light” wants you to believe that these things are harmless.....like belief in an immortal soul.....it’s appealing to humans who don’t want to die, to imagine that their life continues somewhere else and that loved ones are waiting to reunite with them in heaven. That was never a Bible teaching. Heaven was never in God’s original purpose for mankind.

And the fact that “giving” is confined to special days dictated by a calendar makes the whole act contrary to the spirit of giving, which Jesus taught brings true happiness. You give because you want to...not because, on a certain date, people expect you to. The one thing that makes me disgusted is to hear someone say......”you can get me that for my birthday, or Christmas”.....that is not what the spirit of giving is. That is pure selfishness talking.

And you still refuse to answer the question of what year it is.

And why does it matter what year it is? You know, and so do I, so what is the mystery?
You keep going on about this, but I have no idea where you want to go with it.....
Come right out and say what you mean, and perhaps then we might have some dialogue about it.

 

[Aunty Jane]

For some reason, you are equating or connecting things that are only connected by history. The cross WAS a tool of torture but Christian’s do not use that symbol to honor torture tools. It has taken on new meaning.

The cross as a religious symbol pre-dates Christianity by centuries. For example, It was used as a “symbol of life” in Egypt. The ankh cross is featured in Egyptian art representing the act that creates life. It was a symbol of intercourse with the cross part representing the male reproductive organ and the loop at the top representing the female.

Phallic worship was rife in ancient times and in cultures who worshipped a multiplicity of gods.
Temple prostitution was practiced, and sex became something to indulge in whilst worshipping their gods. To venerate something with such grubby origins is to insult the one who sent Christ into the world. The manner of his death and the instrument used to torture him, was orchestrated by God’s enemy.
Add to that the veneration of the sacred tau which was a symbol of the god Tammuz (a cross like the letter “t” ) whose worship was adopted by apostate Israel. (Ezekiel 8:12-14)

Like the star on the Christmas tree, we see it as the devil’s tool and one certainly not to be venerated as it is in Christendom. Besides which fact, that as part of the Ten Commandments, “making an image of anything” was forbidden to God’s people. (Exodus 20:4-5)

If you ask my grandkids what Christmas and Easter is about, they will answer culturally. It means getting candy and exchanging gifts. That’s what it means.

As they grow, they may connect it to Christianity but our culture does NOT connect it to the Pagan appropriation.

I think you realize opposing bearing the cross because it began as a tool of torture is foolish.

And if there was no connection to false worship, Christmas and Easter would not be as offensive as it clearly must be to God. “Christ” was never in “Christ”mas.....and “Easter” was the name of a fertility goddess whose emblems (rabbits and eggs) still feature in her celebration today as they did back in ancient times. How could Jehovah condone such things?

Before I say more, please confirm how the cross stands with JW things to condemn?

I hope I have clarified that above.....

 

[Keiw]

Actually anyone who knows God knows that perfect justice requires eternal reward and etrernal punishment---JUST AS HIS WORD SAYS.

GOD REWARDS ONE WHO FOR 70-80 YEARS LIVED BY FAITH, HE ALSO PUNISHES THOSE ETERNALLY WHO LIVE REJECTING CHRIST AND HIS PHYSICAL RESURRECTION.

You also need to learn progressive knowledge in the bible and that death has more than one meaning.

God told
Adam the day He ate the fruit, he would die. He didn't die physically. But because you have been taught to reject teh souland spirit of man- you cannot see beyond the edge of you rose on this.

Well come tomorrow I wll be offline for 10 days. I am taking my wife on a long overdue vacation. Covid has run her ragged and we have not had a break in over three years.

Enjoy your vacation, Pray for Jehovah to guide you and show you his truth. Listen to Jesus as he told all to do--Matt 6:33--therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his ( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality) then one can accomplish this important truth from Jesus-John 4:22-24, if they dont do Matt 6:33 they cannot accomplish John 4:22-24--and the other plus is they wont go without, Jesus promised his Father would provide all 3 things if they applied Matt 6:33--but few do. Why you ask? Because the false religions teach to seek Jesus righteousness first because they do not listen to him.

 

[Keiw]

As usual you are wrong. Paul made it clear Israel is not cut off in Romans. The Watchtower has deceived you into theinnking the 144,000 Jews of Revelation are the only ones to be born again.

And you still did not answer what the Watchtower conjures up as the meaning of that symbolism. God went to great length to describe the contents of the 144,000, but they just pooh-pooh it off.

Jesus said you must be born again, The Watchtower forbids you!

Now you have to do some thinking for yourself. In the archives of Watchtower material, we know they teach only the 144,000 can partake of communion. Well every year they would issue reports on how many partook. It was as high as 20,000+. Alos as the Watchtower publicly purged many of the so called 144,000 to make room for others that number is even higher.

NHow you have to think for yourself here. Do you really think that in nearly 2000 years since Jesus physically rose and then ascended to heaven there were less than 120,000 born again people, while in less than a century the Watchtower claims there about 25,000? Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church but the Watchtower implies much differently.

Again you fail to apply Jesus who spoke to churches( congregations), not synagogues.
The renting of the banner the moment Jesus died signified Israelite religion is cut off.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Enjoy your vacation, Pray for Jehovah to guide you and show you his truth. Listen to Jesus as he told all to do--Matt 6:33--therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his ( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality) then one can accomplish this important truth from Jesus-John 4:22-24, if they dont do Matt 6:33 they cannot accomplish John 4:22-24--and the other plus is they wont go without, Jesus promised his Father would provide all 3 things if they applied Matt 6:33--but few do. Why you ask? Because the false religions teach to seek Jesus righteousness first because they do not listen to him.

I know not Jehovah. That is a made up word. We do not know the real divine name as teh Hebrews took out the vowel points for YHWH.
For all we know it can be yuhwoh, yihwih, yohwoh etc.

And I have taught for over forty years that we do not need to seek Jesus' righteousness- because it has already been imputed to our account when we accepted His death and physical resurrection from the dead as the full payment for our sin.

But I know this promise well! I have seen my heavenly Father provide over and over and over and over again because though far from perfect I diligently try to seek first the kingdom.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Again you fail to apply Jesus who spoke to churches( congregations), not synagogues.
The renting of the banner the moment Jesus died signified Israelite religion is cut off.

Well I conditionally agree with yo0u. Simply because I do not know what else is lurking behind that statement that Watchtower Central may have filled your mind with.

Judaism is dead. Christianity was borne to take its place., But the covenants God made with Israel are eternal covenants except one- the Mosaic Covenant or the law!

Teh gathering of Jew and gentile into one body called the church (which is an organism and not an organization) was prophesied in the Old and is being fiulfilled now.

Once the full number of the gentiles have been brought into the church, as it declares in Romans 11 God will once again turn His attention to Israel and save the survivors of the tribulation-ALL of the Jews left.

God has been gathering Israel back to the Land He covenanted to give them. He has been gathering them in unbelief as is prophesied to prepare them to pass under teh rod of His judgment as prophesied and to purge out from them the unbeliever and rebel as prophesied.

This will all come to pass because God said in His WOrd "and it shall come to pass..."

 

[Wrangler]

Jehovah was there when what WAS was celebrated.....and if we are told clearly NOT to fuse or blend true worship with false worship

Celebrating, honoring a person is no kind of worship. I don’t know why you cannot understand that.

 

[Wrangler]

Appropriation does not change anything in reality.

Sure it does! The Bible clearly says if you do not do what your conscious is telling, it is a sin. The reverse is also true. This explains why John the Baptist did not drink but Jesus did.

Appropriation is from appropriate. Doing what is appropriate is not a sin. The JW rules are stifling. The rationalizations you go to claim celebrating and honoring someone is astounding! Yet you STILL cannot answer what year is it.

 

[Wrangler]

So depending upon which nation and religion you belong to, it’s meaning remains as it always was.

EXACTLY like celebrating birthdays!