A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

[Ronald Nolette]

Sadly you will find out the opposite.

We will both find out. If I am wrong according to the Watchtower, I will have lived a joyous life, filled with great joy and then just cease to exist.

If you are wrong according to teh Word of God, you will be judged for rejecting who Jesus really is, and what He did for you and be cast to suffer for eternity.

I am free of my responsibility to you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Some of the NT is to the little flock only. Like at the Lords supper, only members of the little flock were present and Jesus made that covenant with them. 1Cor 11:27--some are unworthy to eat and drink of the last supper.

And as Jesus said, if you do not eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man- you have no life in you!

Just out of curiosity, has the Watchtower ever defined what God meant by naming 12,000 from twelve tribes???

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Be careful....with the judgment that you give to others, you yourself will be judged....remember?
No one appointed you as judge of anyone unless your name is Jesus Christ......perhaps you think it is?

Read the whole passage....preferably in modern English....
John 3:25-36....
“Now a discussion arose between some of John's disciples and a Jew over purification. And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness—look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him.” John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him.’ The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. He must increase, but I must decrease.” He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true. For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (ESV)

We see the setting and can understand John’s words at the end.....the ones you are so fond of quoting out of context. “Believing” in the son of God doesn’t have the narrow meaning that you want to give it. It requires “obedience” to all of Christ’s teachings (not just the convenient ones). Those who disobey the son, disobey his Father, who assigned him his earthly mission. The Father “sent” his son and declares his love for him...he has “given all things into his hand”.....he has “given him authority over all things in heaven and on earth” (Matthew 28:18)

We have two separate beings here, and one is clearly superior to the other because if they were equals, none of what God gives his son would have been necessary....he would already possess all things and have all authority.

It is your own spiritual blindness that astounds me even in the face of the scriptures presented to you.....you cannot or will not admit that there are gigantic holes in your cherished belief system. But that is entirely your problem.....all will be revealed in its due time.
We will wait and see what Jesus has to say then....shall we?

First off, it is not my judgment, but the Word of God that is saying that!

Second off:

Believing is not what the lying Watchtower has indoctrinated you to believe! that is another gospel.

go look up the greek for yourself and learn that it is trusting in Jesus alone for your salvation.--believing!

Well as no one is obedient to all of Christs teachings all the time- according to your words here not even the pseudo 144,000 of the Watchtower will make it.

BTW: whatever happened to all the other 144,000 who have been purged by the Watchtower. Are they part of the great crowd or will just cease to exist. Just like the Catholics when they from time to time purge saints.

 

[Dropship]

If God's name is YHWH, mine is Mary Poppins..
"'I AM' was written in the Hebrew language and, the letters are a simple translation as yod, he, vav, he, which is not his "name".
He's TOO BIG to have a name slapped on him..

 

[Dropship]

If God's name is YHWH, mine is Mary Poppins..
In the Hebrew language that 'I AM' was written in, the letters are simply translated as yod, he, vav, he, which is not his "name".
He's TOO BIG to have a name slapped on him..

 

[Aunty Jane]

Glad to make you smile. The idea that celebrating birthdays goes against God’s word ought to be a justification that makes you smile big time. What year is it, sweetie?

Does God care about what year it is sweetie?

If it was not done in Bible times because of its connection to astrology, then what makes it acceptable to God now? What's changed? The connections are all still there. Do you think God just makes his rules for no reason, or that he fails to enforce them? Think back to the guy who tried to save the ark of the covenant from taking a topple off a wagon......God struck him dead for breaking his law....no human was to touch the ark for any reason.

Or, what about the guy who picked up sticks on the Sabbath....God struck him dead....same thing. He broke the rules. So even though it might seem to be a small thing....sometime we are tested in the small things to see how we will respond when the big things come....(Luke16:10)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Does God care about what year it is sweetie?

If it was not done in Bible times because of its connection to astrology, then what makes it acceptable to God now? What's changed? The connections are all still there. Do you think God just makes his rules for no reason, or that he fails to enforce them? Think back to the guy who tried to save the ark of the covenant from taking a topple off a wagon......God struck him dead for breaking his law....no human was to touch the ark for any reason.

Or, what about the guy who picked up sticks on the Sabbath....God struck him dead....same thing. He broke the rules. So even though it might seem to be a small thing....sometime we are tested in the small things to see how we will respond when the big things come....(Luke16:10)

Boy to bad you serve a harsh and unforgiving God. Yes in the OT He was harsh, but as Jesus taught us- we ougth to forgive as God forgives. Jesus told Peter 70X7 in a day! Too bad your image of God doesn't measure up to teh bible stance on Gods mercy, patience, grace, forgiveness and love because of the death and physical resurrection of Jesus that paid our sin debt.

 

[Wrangler]

If it was not done in Bible times because of its connection to astrology, then what makes it acceptable to God now?

I see you ask questions but do not answer them.

Just because it was not done in ancient cultures does mean it is prohibited under the new covenant.

 

[Wrangler]

If God's name is YHWH, mine is Mary Poppins..
"'I AM' was written in the Hebrew language and, the letters are a simple translation as yod, he, vav, he, which is not his "name".
He's TOO BIG to have a name slapped on him..

Wow! Never read Ex 3:15 huh? God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: Yahweh,[a] the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.
This is my eternal name,
my name to remember for all generations.

 

[Wrangler]

Or, what about the guy who picked up sticks on the Sabbath....God struck him dead

Old covenant does not apply to Gentiles.

 

[Aunty Jane]

1- Christianity took over Christmas and Easter, thereby stamping out any silly pagan beliefs..
2- "The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Cor 1:18)
3- Why are blood banks crying out for donors if there's an alternative to blood?

Do you really think anyone can stamp out pagan beliefs by simply changing the name?
Does it not strike you as strange that Christendom does not have a single celebration that does not have pagan origins? Why did they not choose different dates and customs to honour their god? How could he possibly be honoured by adopting pagan festivals and such, and just calling them something else? God was there when the originals were observed, and he abhorred them then...what makes you think he would he accept them now? God does not change to suit the whims of flawed humans.

Blood banks are businesses....multi-million dollar businesses....in case you didn’t know.......and I have shown you proof, that blood is not the safe and effective medical procedure that it was once thought to be.

Blood is a cash cow for those who are in the blood industry....do you know how much it costs for a unit of blood? Google it. No one is going to let the truth stand in the way of their profits. Any doctor worth his salt will know this. The latest techniques have made blood transfusions basically obsolete. Alternative procedures save lives, transfusions do not.

Do you understand that someone else’s DNA is infused into another person’s bloodstream or even with multiple donors putting who knows what into another human body? The medical profession is now not so eager to transfuse because they know that blood transfusions cause more death and unwanted outcomes than any other standard medical procedure. More people die after a blood transfusion than those who refuse one. What you read in the newspapers is something to sell....not necessarily the truth.

Medicine these days is about profit, not health. Hasn’t the recent pandemic proved that?

Another thing- why do JW's call God 'Jehovah'?
Trying to 'humanise' him by slapping a name on him is surely a bit disrespectful and reduces him to the ranks of other named "gods" like this egyptian freak show?-

Good grief....why does Yahweh (Jehovah in English) need a name? Because there are a multitude of “gods” worshipped in the world and he is the one who told us his name. He told the Israelites what his name was and what it meant (Exodus 3:13-15)......it was not just a statement of his existence because they already knew who He was....the meaning put to his name extended beyond his existence to what he would “become” in order to fulfill his purpose by means of them.....they would produce his Messiah....and he would keep them in existence through many defections, until that purpose was fulfilled.

When Elijah made a test of the false god Baal, he told the people to make their choice.....if Yahweh was the true God, then serve Him.....but if Baal was the true god them go and serve him, because they could not serve both. (1 Kings 18:21) As Paul said, you can’t blend false worship and true worship because, false worship contaminates true worship....it pollutes and corrupts it. (Cor 6:14-18) That description fits the entirety of a sadly disunited Christendom who have fooled themselves into thinking that it doesn’t matter to God what they believe......but Jehovah has proven time and again that it matters a great deal because he is a God of truth.

 

[Wrangler]

Does it not strike you as strange that Christendom does not have a single celebration that does not have pagan origins?

No. It’s the consequence of cultural appropriation.

Why do you think it is important to separate celebrations?

 

[Aunty Jane]

First off, it is not my judgment, but the Word of God that is saying that!

No, that is you applying scripture to those who disagree with what you want to believe....big difference.

Second off:

Believing is not what the lying Watchtower has indoctrinated you to believe! that is another gospel.

Whose lies are you believing? Could it be at all possible that satan has deceived the whole world? (1 John 5:19) What makes you immune? Those whom Jesus rejects at the judgment have no idea that their Christianity is nothing more than a satanic lie....you couldn’t possibly be among them...could you? (Matthew 7:21-23) This is something we all need to ask ourselves....what does it mean to BE a “Christian”?

go look up the greek for yourself and learn that it is trusting in Jesus alone for your salvation.--believing!

Yet “the demons “believe” and shudder”....(James 2:19) So, it’s not just about “believing”.....one has to demonstrate by their conduct that they live their faith...not just talk about it.

Greek studies are very enlightening. But one has to approach them without bias so that things are not read into the Greek scriptures that were concepts inserted by biased translators.

How did Jesus teach his disciples to preach? Did he tell them to sit in a building preaching to the choir......or did he tell them to go out to the people and search for the worthy ones? (Matthew 10:11-14)

Last time I looked Matthew 28:19-20 was a *command* from the Master to “Go and make disciples of people of all nations, teaching them to observe all the things“ that he had commanded them. Does that describe you or your church’s activities?

Christendom has no idea what Jesus taught....they don’t know what God’s kingdom is, or what it will do for mankind on this earth.....they are too busy imagining their life in heaven to understand that this was never in God’s original purpose for this earth and for human kind upon it. God did not go to all this trouble just to provide a training ground for heaven.....he already has a large family of “sons” to serve him there. None of them needed to live here first.

Well as no one is obedient to all of Christs teachings all the time- according to your words here not even the pseudo 144,000 of the Watchtower will make it.

Imperfect humans mirror the apostles who were also flawed in their character at time....God does not demand perfection because he knows what sin has done to us.....Jesus knows first hand from living among imperfect men and understands our plight. What he will not forgive is the temerity to judge another as unworthy of life. He gave us instructions to teach from God’s word as he did...and as he trained his disciples to do. Judging others is not our job.....we can present our truth as we understand it, but in judging individuals as unworthy of life is to disqualify ourselves....so be careful how you judge, so that you may not receive the same judgment upon yourself.

BTW: whatever happened to all the other 144,000 who have been purged by the Watchtower. Are they part of the great crowd or will just cease to exist. Just like the Catholics when they from time to time purge saints.

Again that is for God to judge.....Jehovah has never shown favor to defectors.....even nations on earth take a dim view of those who betray their country and side with the opposition. It is punishable by death.

The difficulty for us is, who is teaching an unpopular truth as Jesus was, and who is accepting and promoting the convenient lies, planted by the devil so long ago, that no one noticed when the defection took place. The devil’s deception is complete....he awaits his own fate knowing full well what that will be....but he will take pleasure in taking as many down with him as he can......Jesus said that it will be the majority who find themselves on the road to destruction, whereas only the faithful “few” will even find the “narrow gate” to enter the “cramped” road to life. (Matthew 7:13-14) Jesus told us to expect opposition for upholding his truth.....(John 15:18-21) Who’s side are you on in that situation?

We can let what the Bible says take place......our confidence is meaningless however, because only on that day of judgment will we know if we have put our faith and loyalty in the right place. It will be a day of great joy for the “few”, and a day of extreme anxiety for the “many” who allowed themselves to be deceived. The mouth speaks what is in the heart.

 

[Keiw]

We will both find out. If I am wrong according to the Watchtower, I will have lived a joyous life, filled with great joy and then just cease to exist.

If you are wrong according to teh Word of God, you will be judged for rejecting who Jesus really is, and what He did for you and be cast to suffer for eternity.

I am free of my responsibility to you.

Any who actually know God, knows 100% his justice scales make a literal eternal suffering an impossibility. Do you understand JUSTICE??????? All of Gods ways are justice-Deut 32:4-- he taught all justice= an eye for an eye= perfect balance. So for 70-100 years of unrepented sinful life God could not or would not condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of punishment to suffer. Only a sadist would do such a thing. Proving 100% you or your religions do not know God. It was symbolism. The true God=Deut 30:19--He set before all. life or death.

 

[Keiw]

And as Jesus said, if you do not eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man- you have no life in you!

Just out of curiosity, has the Watchtower ever defined what God meant by naming 12,000 from twelve tribes???

He spoke those words to the little flock. 12,000 from the 12 tribes= symbolism. Literal Israel is cut off of being Gods chosen-Matt 23:38-39. Spiritual Israel, meaning Gods chosen is being spoken of in revelation. Those who lived back in Jesus day of the little flock were literal Israel at one point, until God cut Israel off for hating his son, then sending him to die. A new religion began-Acts 24:5--Jesus spoke to Churches( actually congregation is the correct translating of that Greek word) in Revelation, not synagogues.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Old covenant does not apply to Gentiles.

The principles of all of God’s commands apply to everyone. The Pharisees were told that they were sticklers for the law but never truly understood the principles behind them, therefore their strict obedience was for all the wrong reasons, and in applying the law, they neglected mercy and compassion on an individual basis.

The new covenant was not a licence for Gentiles to break God’s laws. Jesus said that there were only two laws that his disciples needed to follow and that these two summed up the whole law....to “love Jehovah with our whole heart, mind and soul, and to love our neighbor as ourselves”. We cannot violate any law of God without breaking either one or both of those commandments.

If God forbade the adoption of false religious beliefs and customs in Bible times, what makes us think he has changed his mind on those things. Everything the pagans held as part of their religion was to the service of other gods.....something God’s laws made clear, were unacceptable to Jehovah. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

If you can read Paul’s words at 2 Cor 6:14-18 and still want to cling to pagan celebrations then what more can be said? Justification only works on the one justifying......it doesn’t work on God or his Christ, who is our appointed judge. “Faithful in what is least” is a test on whether we will be faithful in the bigger things....if we can’t fulfill the smaller obligations that are easy, then we will find a way to justify the big things when the going gets really tough as Jesus said that it must. (Matthew 23:21) We are in training.....the big test is coming.

 

[Wrangler]

If God forbade the adoption of false religious beliefs and customs in Bible times, what makes us think he has changed his mind on those things.

What year is it? It’s telling that you cannot answer such a simple question.

Celebrating someone’s birthday is not prohibited in Scripture and has nothing to do with false religion.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What year is it? It’s telling that you cannot answer such a simple question.

Celebrating someone’s birthday is not prohibited in Scripture and has nothing to do with false religion.

I am suspicious of the question Wrangler.....what does the year have to do with what is under discussion?
It’s the celebration of pagan festivals and practices that God forbade his people to adopt. Was it just Israel that these were applied to.....or does it apply to all his worshippers no matter what nation or era they find themselves in?

Celebrating anything with pagan origins and practices is clearly condemned in God’s word, unless you want to justify it to yourself. It’s not a difficult thing to do when you want to retain something that isn’t right or that has been challenged.....you find ways to do so, but does making these things acceptable to yourself, make them acceptable to God who was there observing the original...does he separate them? You have to answer that for yourself.

 

[Wrangler]

I am suspicious of the question Wrangler.....what does the year have to do with what is under discussion?

The question of what year it is has everything to do with celebrating birthdays. And you know it.

 

[Wrangler]

It’s the celebration of pagan festivals and practices that God forbade his people to adopt.

You are relying on Old Covenant rules that never applied to Gentiles.

In our culture, we honor people by celebrating their birthday.