So, you do not accept the scriptures as written then, that they set out a timeline from the time of Adam's creation to the final judgement of just over 7,000 years.
A Spirit of Unbelief
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So, you do not accept the scriptures as written then, that they set out a timeline from the time of Adam's creation to the final judgement of just over 7,000 years.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
he who believes is not condemned,
he who does not believe is condemned already
he who dies as a non believer is in a spiritually dead state, he will be delivered to the great white throne.. judged for his works. and found wanting because his work could not save him.
there is no living at the great white throne (spiritually speaking)
which is why they suffer the second death.
Those who die as a believer will be risen BY christ, and judged to see what reward (if any) they will recieve for those works done in Christ.
The above is just your opinion. The statements you have made sound like they are from scripture, but whether or not they are is questionable.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I already showed that death and hades were delivered to Jesus in revelations
It also says death and hades is cast into the lake of fire.. They are the same group
it also says it is the second death. Because they are already dead.
also. I 1 cor 12. at the bema seat. it says even the one who has all their reward is burned. they are still saved, even as through fire
finally, since he who believes is not condemned.. they are saved, they are also born again, which means they were dead, but they were made alive 9eph 2)
and he who does nto believe is condemned already, they are still dead. thus if they die having never repented. they will be delivered to Christ.
so while it may be opinion.. it is based on what the bible says..
Once again you wrongly attribute this to me. That's not my basis for disagreement.
Much love!
it is time that you speak plainly. What exactly is the basis of your disagreement with the post other than what you are taking personally.
The second death is what people become a candidate of because of their unrepentant sin. However, if people will repent then they will live.
Gee, I thought I was being plain.
Allow me to try again.
Revelation 20:12 KJV
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
In this passage John saw "the dead" standing before God, and "the dead" were judged according to their works. This is the judgment of "the dead".
Ephesians 2:1-5 KJV
1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
We who are in Christ, we were dead, but we've been made alive. And again, that judgment is the judgment of "the dead".
This is a simple thing for me. There is no need to attribute my understanding to anything else, I'm simply accepting the simple statements made in these passages.
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The second death is given to those who are condemned, which is the same as those who are dead
those who are condemned are those who do not believe
yes, if they repent of their unbelief and receive Christ in this lifetime, They will be born again, they will never perish and God Weill give them eternal life.. just like Jesus promised in John three
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
thats right . POINT TO JESUS CHRIST Till the last breath .
Perhaps, a better paraphrase of this verse would be: -
And I saw the dead/those that had died a physical death, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead/those who had died a physical death, were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
As for those who become a candidate for dying the second death, do so because of their sinning nature.
If they will humble themselves and repent, then they will live.
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It seems to me that your understanding of Genesis 2:17 is not in sink with the context of this verse.
I would paraphrase this verse in this manner: -
Genesis 2:17: - but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die/ shall die the second death.”
This verse was pointing to the future destiny for people at the time of the final judgement if they do not repent of their sins.
Ezekiel 18 provides an explanation of what happen with respect to a person's choices.
Shalom
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Well if you want to add the second death, feel free.
that would be spiritual death, not the second.
and is the reason WHY we need born again..
if your not born again, You will suffer the second death
I will just stick to the gospel.
he who believes is not condemned
he who does not believe is condemned already
this is WHY we must be born again.
I am not sure why you think you need to go to the OT.. Just listen to the words of Jesus
Not if you consider the Greek word used for a dead person in the verse. What the verse is telling us is that all the people who have physically died, will stand in the GWTH before Christ and they will be judged, and as Daniel tells us in Daniel 12:2-3
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting [a]contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
All I have done is amplified what is written to remove any doubt about what John had written.
You can leave it the way it has been translated, but the translated text does not clearly indicate the state of the person when they are resurrected to stand before Christ. Some will already be a candidate for the Second Death, while others will be recognised for their righteousness.
Shalom
Feel free to believe what you want about what was written in Genesis 2:17.
While a person is a candidate for the second death because of their decisions and choices, they are still able to humble themselves and repent. If they do humble themselves and repent, they will live and no longer be a candidate for the Second Death. The ability to humble themselves and to repent is only available to them while they still drawn breath. Their choices up and until that time then become binding on them.
The Renewed/refurbished Covenant has not changed the Salvation covenant, from the time of Adam.
Shalom
tous nekrous. The lexical form is ho nekros. The dead ones. The same word is used here,
Romans 6:13 KJV
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
"alive from among the dead ones"
This is not simply people who have died, this are "dead ones". Those wh are at that time dead, not alive. They stand before God having remained dead in sin. When we are baptized into Christ, we are raised to ne life from among the dead ones.
We see the same here,
1 Corinthians 15:42 KJV
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
The dead are raised to life, or they are not, remaining the dead ones. And there are many places like this.
Much love!
Mark feel free to interpretate this verse any way you like. I am comfortable with what I have posted.
Shalom
I don't quite think that's the way. The Bible means a certain thing, and we should accept what it says.
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
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