A Study of Peter's sermon at Pentecost

[justaname]

So, in your mind living in the spirit is works of the flesh to be good. You don't know what it means to be led by the Spirit. You think it is doing works of the flesh. When did the flesh become the spirit?

You posted; "by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

That means you think you are being led by the spirit. That is to say your flesh is living by the spirit.

Gal 3:3
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

Let's look to how Paul explains himself rather than how you attempt to.

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. - Galatians 5:16-25


Rather plain and simple. What does he call works of the flesh here? In a word: sin. He teaches us to repent from such and walk by the Spirit.

Then he explains what it is to produce fruit of the Spirit, to live and walk in the Spirit. The key is if you are led by the Spirit, producing the fruit thereof you are not under the Law.

To speak of Galatians 3:3 contextually Paul is speaking about circumcision and the requirements of the Law. He clarifies this in 5:1-6. You are not applying that verse properly and are guilty of what you combat in the OP, ironic. Paul's entire argument is we are justified through our faith not through the requirements of the Law. Again this is not a license to sin because we are held to the Spirit and walking in it putting to death the deeds of the body.

The entire narrative of the Bible is clear and consistent. The children of God are to repent from sin. We are not under the Law rather held to walk in the Spirit. To be led by the Spirit is to avoid evil, repent from sin.

 

[justaname]

Edit.

 

[justaname]

It boggles my mind how anyone tries to justify works with Romans 8. The only way it can be attempted is by selecting a verse or two out of the chapter and ignoring the rest.

Paul says in that chaper that, " ...they that are in the flesh cannot please God, but ye are not in the flesh but in the spirit..." yet he wasn't writing to Roman ghosts; he was writing to living beings who were still in the flesh. And he said they weren't.

Thus.... When is says, "we are debtors to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh ye shall die..." its not talking about your efforts to stop sinning; its talking about grace covering your sins.

I have read I've Romans 8 intensively and do not conclude as you suggest. First you are confusing what it is to be in the flesh and in the Spirit. This is not a comparison of physical and non physical, rather spiritual and non spiritual. You also confuse works with repentance from sin; they are not equal.

Works are done to justify oneself attempting to keep the Law of Moses to be righteous (impossible).

Repenting from sin is to avoid evil. When he says "if you live after the flesh you will die" he means just that. We are not set free from sin to live for it, rather to live for Christ.

Just keep reading...Just keep reading...

9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
12 Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight.
17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."
20 To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head."
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:9-21

This is what it is to walk in the Spirit. If we are to follow commands such as these we will put to death the deeds of the flesh. To follow such commands are not works. This has nothing to do with the Law and there is no need to associate the two.

 

[H. Richard]

This is what it is to walk in the Spirit. If we are to follow commands such as these we will put to death the deeds of the flesh. To follow such commands are not works. This has nothing to do with the Law and there is no need to associate the two.

You can not put to death the deeds of the body. Only Jesus' work on the cross puts death to the deeds of the flesh.

Again you usurp the Work of Jesus by substituting your works.

We are saved by faith in what God has done. Not what we do. If you claim we are justified by our works the we must keep all of the Law of Moses. But it is obvious that no flesh can keep the law.

Gal 3:1-10
Justification by Faith (cf. Rom 4) 3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have you suffered so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain?
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? —
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."
9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
The Law Brings a Curse 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
NKJV

Now answer for yourself the question Paul asked in verses 2 an 3. My answer the verse 3 is NO. I place no confidence in the works of my flesh.


Phil 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
NKJV

 

[justaname]

You can not put to death the deeds of the body. Only Jesus' work on the cross puts death to the deeds of the flesh.

Again you usurp the Work of Jesus by substituting your works.

We are saved by faith in what God has done. Not what we do. If you claim we are justified by our works the we must keep all of the Law of Moses. But it is obvious that no flesh can keep the law.

Gal 3:1-10
Justification by Faith (cf. Rom 4) 3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have you suffered so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain?
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? —
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."
9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
The Law Brings a Curse 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
NKJV

Now answer for yourself the question Paul asked in verses 2 an 3. My answer the verse 3 is NO. I place no confidence in the works of my flesh.


Phil 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
NKJV

Why do you associate works of the Law with repentance from sin? It is by walking in the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh. Why would you call walking in the Spirit works?

Repenting from sin is not attempting to keep the Law, you are confused.

 

[H. Richard]

Why do you associate works of the Law with repentance from sin? It is by walking in the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh. Why would you call walking in the Spirit works?

Repenting from sin is not attempting to keep the Law, you are confused.

You have been posting much more than just repentance. You have posted a person has to keep from sinning in order to keep themselves saved. To me you are saying if we do not repent we lose our salvation. to me that is saying we are made perfect by what we do in repentance.

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

And that is why you ignored verse 3 in my post. You obviously believe you are made perfect by your act of repentance.

 

[justaname]

You have been posting much more than just repentance. You have posted a person has to keep from sinning in order to keep themselves saved. To me you are saying if we do not repent we lose our salvation. to me that is saying we are made perfect by what we do in repentance.

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

And that is why you ignored verse 3 in my post. You obviously believe you are made perfect by your act of repentance.

Really? Please show me where I said all of that.

I've never even suggested any of that. you have consistently attempted to present me in that light

 

[H. Richard]

Really? Please show me where I said all of that.

I've never even suggested any of that. you have consistently attempted to present me in that light

Turn around is hard to take isn't it.

 

[FHII]

I have read I've Romans 8 intensively and do not conclude as you suggest. First you are confusing what it is to be in the flesh and in the Spirit. This is not a comparison of physical and non physical, rather spiritual and non spiritual. You also confuse works with repentance from sin; they are not equal.

Works are done to justify oneself attempting to keep the Law of Moses to be righteous (impossible).

Repenting from sin is to avoid evil. When he says "if you live after the flesh you will die" he means just that. We are not set free from sin to live for it, rather to live for Christ.

Just keep reading...Just keep reading...

9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
12 Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight.
17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."
20 To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head."
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:9-21

This is what it is to walk in the Spirit. If we are to follow commands such as these we will put to death the deeds of the flesh. To follow such commands are not works. This has nothing to do with the Law and there is no need to associate the two.

When I read Romans 8 I do so in respect to the entire book. Paul's purpose in this book is to show us several things; one of them being that we are dead to the law and sin --even though we still do it-- isn't imputed to us.

I stand by what I said.

 

[justaname]

When I read Romans 8 I do so in respect to the entire book. Paul's purpose in this book is to show us several things; one of them being that we are dead to the law and sin --even though we still do it-- isn't imputed to us.

I stand by what I said.

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11 for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. - Romans 14:10-12

Again it is not mine to judge, yet we can judge for ourselves our actions in relation to our Holy God sins imputed or not.

And we are taught:

9 So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. - 2 Corinthians 5:9-10

We will all receive what is due. Without question we are called to repent from sin. This has been my only argument. John also agrees in plain language:

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. - 1 John 2:1-6

 

[H. Richard]

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11 for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. - Romans 14:10-12

Again it is not mine to judge, yet we can judge for ourselves our actions in relation to our Holy God sins imputed or not.

And we are taught:

9 So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. - 2 Corinthians 5:9-10

We will all receive what is due. Without question we are called to repent from sin. This has been my only argument. John also agrees in plain language:

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. - 1 John 2:1-6

Tell us how you please God. Don't you know that if you refuse to believe His Son, Jesus, you are certainly on the path to destruction.

Those that refuse to believe their sins were paid for by Jesus' shed blood on the cross are saying it doesn't do anything and I certainly don't think God likes it.

 

[justaname]

Tell us how you please God. Don't you know that if you refuse to believe His Son, Jesus, you are certainly on the path to destruction.

Those that refuse to believe their sins were paid for by Jesus' shed blood on the cross are saying it doesn't do anything and I certainly don't think God likes it.

Just because our sins are paid for does not mean we ought to continue sinning nor is repenting from sin refusing to believe Jesus paid for the sins of the world.

Job was able to please God in this manner:
There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil. - Job 1:1

Again Paul teaches us:

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? - Romans 6:15-16

And the Psalmist proclaims:

6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness;
7 you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions; - Psalm 45:6-7

 

[H. Richard]

Just because our sins are paid for does not mean we ought to continue sinning nor is repenting from sin refusing to believe Jesus paid for the sins of the world.

Job was able to please God in this manner:
There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil. - Job 1:1

Again Paul teaches us:

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? - Romans 6:15-16

And the Psalmist proclaims:

6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness;
7 you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions; - Psalm 45:6-7

I can't get over the idea that if you get on a forum and talk about sin it is the others that sin because, of course, the poster talking about sin has stopped sinning to hear them tell it.

What a bunch of hypocrites because they sin too. They think that they can get on a forum and talk about repenting and that makes it seem as if they repent.

But a person can post all the words in the world and they will not see all the sins they commit and don't even know they are doing them.

I suppose, for these, if they die without updating their repentance rituals they will die in their sins that they did not repent of. It makes me wonder how they see grace as being free since they have to keep their repentance card punched up to date.

 

[H. Richard]

Just because our sins are paid for does not mean we ought to continue sinning nor is repenting from sin refusing to believe Jesus paid for the sins of the world.

Job was able to please God in this manner:
There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil. - Job 1:1

Again Paul teaches us:

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? - Romans 6:15-16

And the Psalmist proclaims:

6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness;
7 you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions; - Psalm 45:6-7

So you have stopped sinning, right? If you are still committing sins of the flesh then you ought to stop saying that others should stop sinning. Stop being a hypocrite and let the children of God live in the freedom and peace that Jesus gave them.

You look to Job and quote scriptures and they talk about you because you are one of Job's religious friends that kept on judging him of sin.

The children of God only have to answer to Jesus, not you.

 

[FHII]

Just because our sins are paid for does not mean we ought to continue sinning nor is repenting from sin refusing to believe Jesus paid for the sins of the world.

Job was able to please God in this manner:
There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil. - Job 1:1

Again Paul teaches us:

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? - Romans 6:15-16

And the Psalmist proclaims:

6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness;
7 you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions; - Psalm 45:6-7

Justaname,

I agree that while we are under grace we shoukd not sin. I would never encourage anyone to sin. On another thread I asked H. Richard about that and he agreed... He's not encouraging anyone to sin either. The difference is that I acknowledge I am a sinner and will continue to sin. I need grace so God won't impute sin to me. That's from Romans's 4 and it also says our sins are covered (not absent).

As for repentance, i probably have a slightly different view than Richard does, and I've already written a post about it.

I have no poblem with the the job verse or from psalms. But then again, I hate to say it but it was before the age of grace through faith in Christ.

The Romans 6 reference however is being misapplied. This is one chapter that perhaps needs to have a debate thread about because people quote it out of context. 6:15 is the second time paul addresses the question. Both times Paul is explaining we can't sin because we died WITH Christ and we are no longer under the law.

A better verse for you to make your point would be 1 cor 6:12 where Paul says all things are lawful, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Even here Paul isn't saying you must not sin; he's saaying don't let lusts of the flesh (of any kind, not just sexual) control you.

Again, i don't think anyone should sin, and i don't encourage it. And if you want to abstain fine. Just don't think you are even the slightest bit righteous for it nor believe you are helping God out by making it easier to be forgiven.

 

[justaname]

I can't get over the idea that if you get on a forum and talk about sin it is the others that sin because, of course, the poster talking about sin has stopped sinning to hear them tell it.

What a bunch of hypocrites because they sin too. They think that they can get on a forum and talk about repenting and that makes it seem as if they repent.

But a person can post all the words in the world and they will not see all the sins they commit and don't even know they are doing them.

I suppose, for these, if they die without updating their repentance rituals they will die in their sins that they did not repent of. It makes me wonder how they see grace as being free since they have to keep their repentance card punched up to date.

You have made quite a few assumptions here...nothing here applies to me though. Lol!

 

[justaname]

So you have stopped sinning, right? If you are still committing sins of the flesh then you ought to stop saying that others should stop sinning. Stop being a hypocrite and let the children of God live in the freedom and peace that Jesus gave them.

You look to Job and quote scriptures and they talk about you because you are one of Job's religious friends that kept on judging him of sin.

The children of God only have to answer to Jesus, not you.

Quite defensive...

Are you currently having issues with sin in your lifestyle?

 

[FHII]

Quite defensive...

Are you currently having issues with sin in your lifestyle?

Come on, Justaname.... That's uncalled for. If he's like me he's just defending grace through faith.

 

[justaname]

Justaname,

I agree that while we are under grace we shoukd not sin. I would never encourage anyone to sin. On another thread I asked H. Richard about that and he agreed... He's not encouraging anyone to sin either. The difference is that I acknowledge I am a sinner and will continue to sin. I need grace so God won't impute sin to me. That's from Romans's 4 and it also says our sins are covered (not absent).

As for repentance, i probably have a slightly different view than Richard does, and I've already written a post about it.

I have no poblem with the the job verse or from psalms. But then again, I hate to say it but it was before the age of grace through faith in Christ.

The Romans 6 reference however is being misapplied. This is one chapter that perhaps needs to have a debate thread about because people quote it out of context. 6:15 is the second time paul addresses the question. Both times Paul is explaining we can't sin because we died WITH Christ and we are no longer under the law.

A better verse for you to make your point would be 1 cor 6:12 where Paul says all things are lawful, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Even here Paul isn't saying you must not sin; he's saaying don't let lusts of the flesh (of any kind, not just sexual) control you.

Again, i don't think anyone should sin, and i don't encourage it. And if you want to abstain fine. Just don't think you are even the slightest bit righteous for it nor believe you are helping God out by making it easier to be forgiven.

I think we are in agreement here except on the Romans 6 passage. But I would like to add it is not even OK if we sin because for one sin Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden and brought death onto all men. For one sin Moses was not able to enter the promised land. Because of a lie Ananias and Sapphira were taken from the land of the living.

I don't think either of you promote sin, but I want to stress that the smallest act of sin is as R.C. Sproul puts it, "cosmic treason", against our Holy God.

If you desire to continue dialogue regarding that Romans chapter 6 perhaps you could start a thread in the debate forum?

 

[justaname]

Come on, Justaname.... That's uncalled for. If he's like me he's just defending grace through faith.

Honestly I am uncertain and that is why I ask rather than accuse. The accusations have come from his side if you read through all the posts. I do know that those attempting to continue a lifestyle of sin both want acceptance for living in that sin (it isn't so bad because everyone sins type of thinking) and desire the opposition to that sin to be silent.