A Study of Peter's sermon at Pentecost

[FHII]

I think we are in agreement here except on the Romans 6 passage. But I would like to add it is not even OK if we sin because for one sin Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden and brought death onto all men. For one sin Moses was not able to enter the promised land. Because of a lie Ananias and Sapphira were taken from the land of the living.

I don't think either of you promote sin, but I want to stress that the smallest act of sin is as R.C. Sproul puts it, "cosmic treason", against our Holy God.

If you desire to continue dialogue regarding that Romans chapter 6 perhaps you could start a thread in the debate forum?

Yes, one act of sin does do all that, which is why we need grace through faith. Even the most "holiest" of us will sin.

I dislike the "what about you and your sins" arguement, but it is valid. Heaven is going to be emptier than the Liver and Onion Restruant at Disneyworld if we must stop sinning.

Its not a matter of if you should stop sinning or even if you can stop sinning.... God knows not a single person has or can live up to the law so he paid the price for us and removed the law for them with faith.

 

[FHII]

Honestly I am uncertain and that is why I ask rather than accuse. The accusations have come from his side if you read through all the posts. I do know that those attempting to continue a lifestyle of sin both want acceptance for living in that sin (it isn't so bad because everyone sins type of thinking) and desire the opposition to that sin to be silent.

"Attempting?!?!" that's like attemptin to breath! Its going to happen! Sure you can hold your breath for a little while, but eventually guess what happens?

Does Jesus accept our sins and our sinful lifestyle? Is he silent about it? I don't know but i do know he forgives it, he covers it and he doesn't impute it. So i kind of think he does accept it and doesn't speak out against it.

I do know that if you don't believe in him and what he's done he WILL speak out at the White Throne Judgement.

Be like Jesus!

 

[justaname]

"Attempting?!?!" that's like attemptin to breath! Its going to happen! Sure you can hold your breath for a little while, but eventually guess what happens?

Does Jesus accept our sins and our sinful lifestyle? Is he silent about it? I don't know but i do know he forgives it, he covers it and he doesn't impute it. So i kind of think he does accept it and doesn't speak out against it.

I do know that if you don't believe in him and what he's done he WILL speak out at the White Throne Judgement.

Be like Jesus!

There is a difference between struggling with sin and surrendering to sin allowing sin to dominate us. There is also a difference between living a lifestyle to sin and a lifestyle to Christ. God makes these dividing lines and decides who falls where, but the Christian is to help keep his brother from sinning.

The call is to repent from sin, not to sinless perfection.

Some have pet sins they desire to abide in (pornogrophy, drunkeness, slander, gluttony...etc.) rather than abiding in the self control the Holy Spirit gives us.

12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. - Romans 13:12-14

 

[FHII]

There is a difference between struggling with sin and surrendering to sin allowing sin to dominate us. There is also a difference between living a lifestyle to sin and a lifestyle to Christ. God makes these dividing lines and decides who falls where, but the Christian is to help keep his brother from sinning.

The call is to repent from sin, not to sinless perfection.

Some have pet sins they desire to abide in (pornogrophy, drunkeness, slander, gluttony...etc.) rather than abiding in the self control the Holy Spirit gives us.

12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.
13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. - Romans 13:12-14

1. We are not to struggle with sin nor to surrender to it. We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities (Eph 6:12). Those of the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, but those of the spirit, the things of the spirit. (Romans 8:6). God looks at the heart, not the flesh.

2. If you are in the flesh you are living a life of sin. They that are in the flesh cannot please God. (Rom 8). Paul also said the good he would do he did not, but the evil he would not, that he did. But it wasn't him but the sin in him. (Rom 7).

3. Yes, God does make the dividing lines and clearly told us what it was... "The just shall live by faith!" by grace ye are saved through faith, not of works lest any should boast (eph 2).
4. We are to keep our brother from sinning? Well certain verses like 1 tim 5:20 seem to suggest that. But not when Paul already said the law has passed away. So we aren't to condemn sins of the flesh, at least not as pertaining to salvation.

 

[mjrhealth]

There is a difference between struggling with sin and surrendering to sin allowing sin to dominate us

YEs yet we al ldo, even i struggle iwth it but than Christ died for all "ONCE". It is finished, His work as far as the cross is concerned is complete, nothing more to do. When I fall do I have to get up and beg for forgiveness, No, because I have a saviour who came "full of grace and mercY. and yet the staunch "sin" advocates would cry" you have to", thats because they dont know Christ and what he did that day The greaets sin today is as richard and I quiet agrre on even God, is unbelief, as those trying to stop themselves from sinning dont believe that Christ has finsihed what He started and somehow think they can perfect them sleves, you know this bit!

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Yet He had just condemned Himself. Christ didnt die so we would be free from sim He died so it would not condemn us. I am no longer in condemnation i am now alive in Christ. maybe one day when christainas actually ask God they might get an answer.

 

[FHII]

Justaname,

There are two more verses I'd like you to consider which really sum up my position on this topic. Paul is talked about most of the time -- and rightly so as he was Jesus's chosen ambassador on grace -- but he isn't the only one who acknowledged it:

1 John 2:1 KJV
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


This is John the Revelator, of course. He said don't sin, but if you do you have an advocate in Jesus. I agree as Paul did. Paul spoke of grace but he also had a moral code. He didn't like sin either but he acknowledged strongly that the law nor sin had no dominion over us (Rom 6&7).

2. 1 Peter 2:16 KJV
As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

From Peter. Now in a preceeding verse he said that we should abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul. We can discuss that in detail, but the context is the same as not letting yourself be brought under its power.

The verse i brought up however say don't let use your liberty for a cloke of malice. It says we do have liberty, but we aren't to abuse that liberty. I agree and again, this is exactly what Paul was rebuking the Corinthians about.

 

[justaname]

1. We are not to struggle with sin nor to surrender to it. We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities (Eph 6:12). Those of the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, but those of the spirit, the things of the spirit. (Romans 8:6). God looks at the heart, not the flesh.

2. If you are in the flesh you are living a life of sin. They that are in the flesh cannot please God. (Rom 8). Paul also said the good he would do he did not, but the evil he would not, that he did. But it wasn't him but the sin in him. (Rom 7).

3. Yes, God does make the dividing lines and clearly told us what it was... "The just shall live by faith!" by grace ye are saved through faith, not of works lest any should boast (eph 2).
4. We are to keep our brother from sinning? Well certain verses like 1 tim 5:20 seem to suggest that. But not when Paul already said the law has passed away. So we aren't to condemn sins of the flesh, at least not as pertaining to salvation.

1. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. - Ephesians 6:12-13

Spiritual forces of evil = sin. We do wrestle with sin, not with people. (Cf also Romans 13:12 where we are to put on the armor of light to combat these forces of evil).

2. You are correct that those of the Spirit mind the things of the Spirit, thus they follow the Spirit and make no provision for the flesh.

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. - Romans 13:14

3. Repenting from sin is not works. Repenting from sin is not the means for salvation rather it is apportioned to sanctification.

4. Read 1 Corinthians 5. We condemn sin, but not in regards to salvation. Also:

19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,
20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. - James 5:19-20

The wandering from truth is making a practice of sin contextually here.

 

[H. Richard]

Quite defensive...

Are you currently having issues with sin in your lifestyle?

You seem to be the one that has the issue with sin in your life. You seem to think that your repentance saves you from them but as for me, Jesus took care of that problem for me.

My issue with you is your idea that a person has to be sinless (caught up on their repentance rituals) to be saved and I disagree with it. That is our disagreement.

This idea of yours leads a person, who knows that he/she is sinful in the flesh to give up trying to trust in Jesus' work on the cross. It shuts the door on a person that has a problem with sin. In effect you are saying no one can be saved unless they become perfect and sinless in the flesh and a person can obtain that perfection if they repent. Neither you, or anyone else, can ever become perfect and sinless in the flesh.

You brought up Job. Wasn't it Job's religious friends telling Job that he had sin in his life and needed to repent? In my opinion of what you write you are like Job's religious friends telling people that they have sin in their life and must repent. In the end God was not pleased with Job's religious friends. The children of God answer to no one but God.

God has given every person a way to save his/her spirit (soul) and it is not by the works of the flesh. It is by faith, trust, and confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross. In my opinion, for a person to say it is by a person repenting of sin that has already been paid for is a slap in Jesus' face.

 

[justaname]

You seem to be the one that has the issue with sin in your life. You seem to think that your repentance saves you from them but as for me, Jesus took care of that problem for me.

My issue with you is your idea that a person has to be sinless (caught up on their repentance rituals) to be saved and I disagree with it. That is our disagreement.

This idea of yours leads a person, who knows that he/she is sinful in the flesh to give up trying to trust in Jesus' work on the cross. It shuts the door on a person that has a problem with sin. In effect you are saying no one can be saved unless they become perfect and sinless in the flesh and a person can obtain that perfection if they repent. Neither you, or anyone else, can ever become perfect and sinless in the flesh.

You brought up Job. Wasn't it Job's religious friends telling Job that he had sin in his life and needed to repent? In my opinion of what you write you are like Job's religious friends telling people that they have sin in their life and must repent. In the end God was not pleased with Job's religious friends. The children of God answer to no one but God.

God has given every person a way to save his/her spirit (soul) and it is not by the works of the flesh. It is by faith, trust, and confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross. In my opinion, for a person to say it is by a person repenting of sin that has already been paid for is a slap in Jesus' face.

Your assumptions here have led you astray in our discussion. The call to repent from sin is not the means of salvation, as I have continually argued. It is the initial response to the gospel that leads to faith in Christ and is also the continual response to Jesus's sacrifice for those who walk in the Spirit.

One must first recognize they are a sinner in need of a Savior. Then one places their faith in the death, burial, and resurrection for salvation. Then begins the sanctification and continual repenting from sin. Paul speaks of it as beating his flesh into submission.

I never once taught sinless perfection. I never once taught repentance saves you. I never once taught a ritual of repenting. The slap in Jesus' face is the believer turning to sin after Jesus has given His life for it. Again Jesus did not die on the cross so you abide in sin rather that you abide in Him. He is perfect in all His ways always doing what is pleasing to the Father. The believer is being confirmed into Jesus' image. That means it is a current, ongoing process. Part of that process is repentance from sin every time we are confronted with temptation.

To me it seems like you are saying, "Jesus already died for my sins so I can just go do whatever I want without consequences. God does not care if I sin because all my sins are covered." Correct me if I am wrong here.

I am here to say the Bible is explicit in that the saved Christian is to repent from sin, or to say it another way, to abstain from evil. Repenting from sin is not saying, "God I am sorry I sinned please forgive me." Repenting from sin is turning from it at the point of temptation.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. - 1 John 2:1

You seem to be teaching that because of what is written in Romans 7 we have no self control. Yet the Holy Spirit gives us self-control. God always gives us an out in temptation. Paul exhorts us to avoid sin at all costs, not for salvation, but as the true response to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross!

 

[H. Richard]

Your assumptions here have led you astray in our discussion. The call to repent from sin is not the means of salvation, as I have continually argued. It is the initial response to the gospel that leads to faith in Christ and is also the continual response to Jesus's sacrifice for those who walk in the Spirit.

One must first recognize they are a sinner in need of a Savior. Then one places their faith in the death, burial, and resurrection for salvation. Then begins the sanctification and continual repenting from sin. Paul speaks of it as beating his flesh into submission.

I never once taught sinless perfection. I never once taught repentance saves you. I never once taught a ritual of repenting. The slap in Jesus' face is the believer turning to sin after Jesus has given His life for it. Again Jesus did not die on the cross so you abide in sin rather that you abide in Him. He is perfect in all His ways always doing what is pleasing to the Father. The believer is being confirmed into Jesus' image. That means it is a current, ongoing process. Part of that process is repentance from sin every time we are confronted with temptation.

To me it seems like you are saying, "Jesus already died for my sins so I can just go do whatever I want without consequences. God does not care if I sin because all my sins are covered." Correct me if I am wrong here.

I am here to say the Bible is explicit in that the saved Christian is to repent from sin, or to say it another way, to abstain from evil. Repenting from sin is not saying, "God I am sorry I sinned please forgive me." Repenting from sin is turning from it at the point of temptation.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. - 1 John 2:1

You seem to be teaching that because of what is written in Romans 7 we have no self control. Yet the Holy Spirit gives us self-control. God always gives us an out in temptation. Paul exhorts us to avoid sin at all costs, not for salvation, but as the true response to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross!

************
You said it all when you said the following;
"One must first recognize they are a sinner in need of a Savior. Then one places their faith in the death, burial, and resurrection for salvation. Then begins the sanctification and continual repenting from sin. Paul speaks of it as beating his flesh into submission."

You believe in progressive sanctification. According to the scriptures it is the Holy Spirit THAT HAS ALREADY SANCTIFIED US. Why don't you go ahead and claim that salvation is progressive too as some do.

1 Cor 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

Sanctification is the work of God on the cross. It is not the work of man.

The only work a child of God performs is building their faith, trust, and confidence in what Jesus did on the cross. The flesh tries to sanctify it's self by what it does. The flesh just can not believe it's work will not be accepted by God. This is true in all religions just as it was true of Cain who, even though God told him that his sacrifice had to be blood, Cain demanded that God accept the work of his hands.

The religious today think the same way.

You think everyone that believes we are saved only by what Jesus did on the cross WANT to go out and sin all the time because they don't believe they have to spend hours repenting of sins that Jesus has already paid for. That is a strawman that the religious build. It has been my experiences in religions that show me that the religious make a show of repentance to others but never do it.

There is nothing that can satisfy God except a person trusting in His Son's work on the cross.

 

[justaname]

************
You said it all when you said the following;
"One must first recognize they are a sinner in need of a Savior. Then one places their faith in the death, burial, and resurrection for salvation. Then begins the sanctification and continual repenting from sin. Paul speaks of it as beating his flesh into submission."

You believe in progressive sanctification. According to the scriptures it is the Holy Spirit THAT HAS ALREADY SANCTIFIED US. Why don't you go ahead and claim that salvation is progressive too as some do.

1 Cor 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

Sanctification is the work of God on the cross. It is not the work of man.

The only work a child of God performs is building their faith, trust, and confidence in what Jesus did on the cross. The flesh tries to sanctify it's self by what it does. The flesh just can not believe it's work will not be accepted by God. This is true in all religions just as it was true of Cain who, even though God told him that his sacrifice had to be blood, Cain demanded that God accept the work of his hands.

The religious today think the same way.

You think everyone that believes we are saved only by what Jesus did on the cross WANT to go out and sin all the time because they don't believe they have to spend hours repenting of sins that Jesus has already paid for. That is a strawman that the religious build. It has been my experiences in religions that show me that the religious make a show of repentance to others but never do it.

More accusations from you here. I think you have made a straw-army by now.

I also notice you did not correct what I perceived you believe. Can I take that as your position then?

Finally do you believe we are in our eternal state right now? If you do then how do you explain we are to be changed in an instant? If you do not then you also believe in progressive sanctification and salvation.

Paul explains we were saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. Did you not read all of the Bible or are you simply ignoring those verses to hold to your position? Paul also explains we are being conformed into the image of Jesus Christ. Did you complete either of these? Again are you in your eternal state?

 

[tom55]

Peter's sermon on Pentecost:
-
I believe that Peter's sermon has been taken out of context and used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized. This article is my attempt to prove that it has to be read “IN CONTEXT.“
-
(was it to the Jews and the Gentiles, or just to the Jews?)
-
Acts 2:31-38 (NKJV)
31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
'Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'
-
-- In the above Peter is testifying to the “”Jews”” that Jesus is the promised Christ.
-
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
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37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
-
-- Peter tells the Jews they have crucified the Lord of Glory. The Jews wanted to know what they could do to atone """for crucifying Jesus."""
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38 ""THEN"" Peter said to “”THEM,”” (them = the Jews) "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
-
-- Note: Verse 38 is a DIRECT answer to the question in verse 37. The Jews were to repent of rejecting Jesus and having Him crucified. ---NOTE: It was not to repent of sins of the sinful flesh. Nowhere in the context of these scriptures has sins of the sinful flesh been mentioned.
-
-- The Jews were to fulfill a Jewish ritual of water cleansing (water baptism), a ritual under the Law of Moses, and at the same time they were to 'acknowledge' Jesus as the Christ by performing a water cleansing ritual (baptism) in His name.
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39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." --- Note, the promises were made to the Jews only.
-
-- Peter's sermon included verse 39 which was taken from Joel 2:28-29 and was about the ""promise of the Holy Spirit"" that was to be “”given to the Jews.”” Verse 39 was to assure the Jews that their sin of rejecting Jesus would be forgiven and that they would also be given the Holy Spirit (see verse 38). Joel 2:28-3:1
-
Many theologians teach that Peter was including the Gentiles in verse 39. But how can that be true since it was necessary for God, at a later date, to give Peter a dream to teach him that the Gentiles were included. Acts 10:9-16
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Although it was the Gentiles that actually killed Jesus they did it because the Jews insisted. The Gentiles did not need to repent for what the Jews did. Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles therefore the Gentiles had not rejected Him. (Matt 10:5-7) (Matt 15:23-24) (Rom 15:8)
-
Matthew 27:24-25 (NKJV)
24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it."
Note this verse:
25 And all the people answered and said, "His blood be on us and on our children."
-
-- Verse 25 above is important.
-
Peter's sermon has been used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized in many of the Christian Religious churches. It has become a “FORMULA” to be repeated in order to be saved. This formula is stated as a commandment in their theological statement.
-
I know that some will reject this writing. But IMHO, I don't think Peter's sermon is appropriate or valid for this age of grace and those that use it are preaching a sermon that was preached to the Jews, those that had Christ crucified, as if it also applies to the Gentiles. IMHO, that is a blatant falsehood because it is not the truth. IMHO = In my honest opinion.
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Then how is one saved in this age of God’s grace? Rom 10:8-13
-
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." NKJV
-
There is nothing in Rom 10:8-13 about an act of water baptism or repentance.

1 Peter 3:21 Baptism...now saves you. Did the Gentiles need saving?
Acts 2:39 ...the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call. Are the Gentiles not considered "all"?

When Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit". Did NO ONE mean the Jews only?

 

[H. Richard]

1 Peter 3:21 Baptism...now saves you. Did the Gentiles need saving?
Acts 2:39 ...the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call. Are the Gentiles not considered "all"?

When Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit". Did NO ONE mean the Jews only?

The Gentiles were considered to be dogs by the Jews. So I don't think Peter had the Gentiles in mind when he said that.

As a matter of scripture revelation Peter did not know the Gentiles were to be saved until he had a vision that they were, and that was several years after the Pentecost sermon. Therefore, in my opinion, those afar off were the Jews in other countries.

As for your last statement, I wrote a study about "water baptism" and it is here on this forum a few OPs down. I see no need to repeat what was said in the study.

 

[tom55]

The Gentiles were considered to be dogs by the Jews. So I don't think Peter had the Gentiles in mind when he said that.

As a matter of scripture revelation Peter did not know the Gentiles were to be saved until he had a vision that they were, and that was several years after the Pentecost sermon. Therefore, in my opinion, those afar off were the Jews in other countries.

As for your last statement, I wrote a study about "water baptism" and it is here on this forum a few OPs down. I see no need to repeat what was said in the study.

Your "opinion" doesn't answer a my very valid and logical questions: Did the Gentiles need saving? Are the Gentiles not considered "all"?

 

[H. Richard]

Your "opinion" doesn't answer a my very valid and logical questions: Did the Gentiles need saving? Are the Gentiles not considered "all"?

Not by the Jews. All through OT the Gentiles, with very few exceptions, were the enemies of the Jewish people. As for the idea that the Jews considered the Gentiles to be dogs look at the scriptures.

Matt 7:6
6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
NKJV ----- spoken to the Jews

Matt 15:26-27
26 But He answered and said, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the little dogs."
27 And she said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters' table."
NKJV

Mark 7:28
28 And she answered and said to Him, "Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs under the table eat from the children's crumbs."
NKJV

I have answered your questions. That ends it for me.

 

[tom55]

Not by the Jews. All through OT the Gentiles, with very few exceptions, were the enemies of the Jewish people. As for the idea that the Jews considered the Gentiles to be dogs look at the scriptures.

Matt 7:6
6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
NKJV ----- spoken to the Jews

Matt 15:26-27
26 But He answered and said, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the little dogs."
27 And she said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters' table."
NKJV

Mark 7:28
28 And she answered and said to Him, "Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs under the table eat from the children's crumbs."
NKJV

I have answered your questions. That ends it for me.

So the gentiles needed saving and they are considered ALL which means scripture is meant for everyone....gentile or Jew....which destroys your theory.....That ends if for me also.

 

[kerwin]

H.Richard.

Many theologians teach that Peter was including the Gentiles in verse 39. But how can that be true since it was necessary for God, at a later date, to give Peter a dream to teach him that the Gentiles were included. Acts 10:9-16

The answer is there is only one gospel and it is for both Jews and Gentiles. You are mixing up customs with the gospel. The gospel never teaches that following customs are necessary to the message of salvation beyond the need of a clear conscious.

Of course Scripture also teaches the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius were also immersed in water so your question misses that context.

 

[FHII]

Folks, i must semi retire from this conversation. I work for the public school system (as well as a second job) and don't have time to properly reply.

 

[H. Richard]

Folks, i must semi retire from this conversation. I work for the public school system (as well as a second job) and don't have time to properly reply.

This thread is important so I will keep it alive by posting on it again since there are a lot of later posts that say water baptism is what saves a person.

 

[tom55]

This thread is important so I will keep it alive by posting on it again since there are a lot of later posts that say water baptism is what saves a person.

LATER posts that say water baptism is what saves a person? How about the FIRST post...2000 years ago....Peter 3:21

If baptism is only symbolic then why is 'this thread so important that YOU need to keep it alive?' I would think that those of us who have proven that baptism is NOT symbolic would have more interest in keeping it alive so that you non-believers might eventually realize the truth.