Jesus died as the supreme sacrifice for our sins, and as the way to God...that does not mean we can go on wilfully sinning as per Hebrews 6.4-6 if one continues sinning wilfully there is no further sacrifice available for forgiveness of sins....1st John says sin is transgression of the law. also Hebrews 10 deals with this subject as well..
A Study of Peter's sermon at Pentecost
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Exactly
No it does not. But that is your "reasoning" for keeping the law, which by all accounts keeps you in sin because you believe the following-
No it is not, unless that law is love, that is why love fufills all the law.
As for the law
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Because of teh above there was this which achieved nothing
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
And so came Christ
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Because nothing man could do could take away sin
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Again as for the lgrace
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Which is what you are doing, for teh law you choose to keep still requires a blood sacrifice, and since you have rejected grace for teh law, that blood will be yours. The law has no leniency it Kills thas is all it ever did.
Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Which again is what you are doing, but if you are keeping the law, than you are without sin which makes you a liar
1Jn_1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Which means you just broke the law. Sad isnt it
Rom_10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believet
Are you so sure that the sinning talked about is breaking the law? I believe it is not believing in what Jesus did on the cross. The scriptures plainly teach that Jesus' work on the cross paid for the sins of the whole world. If sins of the flesh have all been paid for then the only sin that is left is to not believe in what Jesus did for mankind on the cross. Since the only sin that condemns us under grace is the sin of unbelief then the sin spoken of is that sin. If a person does not believe in what Jesus did on the cross then there is no other way to pay for that person's sins.heretoeternity said:
Perhaps a better understanding of Romans 7 would help with this.
H.Richard,
The scriptures plainly teach that Jesus' work on the cross paid for the sins of the whole world.
The words are correct though not literally written in Scripture but the meaning you are attaching to them may not be. Jesus died because there is sin in the world and not for his own deeds for "the wages of sin is death". His death purchased each individual who believes from slavery to sin and allows them to become servants of righteousness. (Romans 6) The one that violates the Law is a slave to sin as anyone that sins is a servant to sin. (John 8:34) The one that walks according to the Spirit does not violate the Law for violation of the Law is the fruit of the flesh.
The scriptures plainly teach that Jesus' work on the cross paid for the sins of the whole world.
The words are correct though not literally written in Scripture but the meaning you are attaching to them may not be. Jesus died because there is sin in the world and not for his own deeds for "the wages of sin is death". His death purchased each individual who believes from slavery to sin and allows them to become servants of righteousness. (Romans 6) The one that violates the Law is a slave to sin as anyone that sins is a servant to sin. (John 8:34) The one that walks according to the Spirit does not violate the Law for violation of the Law is the fruit of the flesh.
Yes sin is breaking the God's law...it is Apostle john who said it in 1st John....Sin is transgression of the law'...You do know what transgression means right? Or mayvbe not.
Why do you insist that we are under the law? We are not Jews. Have you not read where it says we are dead to the law?heretoeternity said:
Rom 7:3-4
3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another — to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
NKJV
You said "not literally written in Scripture" oh but it is written in scripture.kerwin said:
1 John 2:2
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
NKJV
2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
NKJV
Col 2:20-23
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations —
21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
22 which all concern things which perish with the using — according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
NKJV
You continue to think we are under the law. Have you not read where it says if you break one of the laws you are guilty of breaking the whole law because breaking one of the laws is breaking the law. Only a sinless person can claim they keep the law. Are you that sinless person?
You posted "The one that walks according to the Spirit does not violate the Law for violation of the Law is the fruit of the flesh." but I don't think you understand it. A person lives in a body of sinful flesh and will sin, period. If that person thinks he/she is condemned by their flesh then they are not living in the spirit. Living in the spirit is living in faith. God does not see the fleshly sins of the children of God because they are ""in Christ"" and He (Jesus) has paid for the sins of that person.
God's spirit helps you to keep the law....if you still want to disobey the the ten commandments after you think you are "saved" then you do not have God's spirit in you...as God said in Hebrews...I will write my laws on their hearts and minds, and I will be their God, and they will be my people"....if you do not want to follow God's laws then who do you belong to? It is not God..but maybe the god of this world called satan, who is a master of deception...right from the garden of Eden until now, leading people such as yourself astray from God's true word.
Why would He, if helped you keep teh law, than you would be perfect like Christ, than all His good works would account for nought, for your salvation would have being by the law, and not by grace and so instead of Christ receiving teh glory you would and He would be put to shame, yet you do not keep the law for no man could thats why Christ died for us, something you simply seem to forget.
Again this man
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Who was teh one tha tChrist approved of
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Why do you insist that I must WANT to sin? Like I have said, people really ought to read Romans 7. Every child of God wants to be saved from their sinful bodies. None of them want to sin. But they live in bodies with a sinful nature that sins.heretoeternity said:
Okay, so no one will look it up here it is;
Rom 7:13-25 Law Cannot Save from Sin
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV
Verse 24 does not say he makes a person sinless. It says we have been delivered from the condemnation of the sinful flesh by His blood on the cross which paid for the sins of the whole world
H.Richard,
That is not literal though some is a paraphrase of your interpretation of what you said and therefore gives me more idea of what you meant.
There was no need for Jesus to die for the propitiation (atonement) of sins since that was done by the sacrifice of animals under the OT. (Exodus 29:36)
There is more to those passages and I plan to go through them to see what it is.
One key part to consider is that they state Jesus is the atonement for the whole world. Do your believe in universal salvation?
That is not literal though some is a paraphrase of your interpretation of what you said and therefore gives me more idea of what you meant.
There was no need for Jesus to die for the propitiation (atonement) of sins since that was done by the sacrifice of animals under the OT. (Exodus 29:36)
There is more to those passages and I plan to go through them to see what it is.
One key part to consider is that they state Jesus is the atonement for the whole world. Do your believe in universal salvation?
Not so, if that was teh case Christ would never of had to die, except to remove teh sacrifices.
Heb_10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
And this spoken by someone who does not believe any Jewish authors...yes John was a Jew, and he saaid in 1st John "sin is transgression of God's law", but you said you ignore it because he is a Jew...and as I pointed to you James, Peter and Paul and all the Apostles were Jerws so you appear to ignore them too...and Jesus is a Jew, so you seem want to ignore his teachings as well....satan is happy with you!mjrhealth said:
mjrheath;
Heb_10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
That would mean that atonement does not mean take away sins.
Sanctify is what I a certain means take away sins as I know of no where it is written that the blood of bulls and goats sanctified those that made the offering.
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Remittances do not please him even if you seek Jesus Christ as one. As John the Baptist stated to the religious people "put fruit to your repentance". I believe you already know there is no atoning without repentance. Sacrifice is a means to that or God would not have required it.
Heb_10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
That would mean that atonement does not mean take away sins.
Sanctify is what I a certain means take away sins as I know of no where it is written that the blood of bulls and goats sanctified those that made the offering.
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Remittances do not please him even if you seek Jesus Christ as one. As John the Baptist stated to the religious people "put fruit to your repentance". I believe you already know there is no atoning without repentance. Sacrifice is a means to that or God would not have required it.
H.Richard,
2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
NKJV
"reconciling the world to Himself" is about being unified in the Spirit with God and not about universal salvation since the gospel is the word of reconciliation. He gets rid of the wicked to do that reconciliation with the world though the gospel is available to all.
Ephesians 4:1-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;3 endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
NKJV
"reconciling the world to Himself" is about being unified in the Spirit with God and not about universal salvation since the gospel is the word of reconciliation. He gets rid of the wicked to do that reconciliation with the world though the gospel is available to all.
Ephesians 4:1-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;3 endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Clutching at straws, if what you said was true you would not be so angry, because the truth sets you free, and you have proven to us all that you are a servant to the law, not Christ, you can only serve one master, which will it be.
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