I am hearing this more that our salvation hinges on surrendering/giving our lives. What does that mean? How do you know you have surrendered enough? Show me that from Paul please. We are saved by the redemption and shed blood of Christ. We just believe it. Show me where we need to surrender or lives.
A SURE SALVATION
- Thread starter Doug
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
There is a difference between Israel and Gentiles. Gentiles didnt receive the promises given to Israel. Gentiles didnt get the covenants made with Israel. Israel was promised a land Gentiles werent. Israel was promised to reign over the nations with Christ Gentiles werent.
Israel was promised to be a priesthood, sorry to say you wont be.
Sorry but you havent been grafted in either.
The Gentiles grafted in can be found in Acts...............[Acts 10:45 KJV] "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Yes we are to bear fruit
Yes a church member should be shown scripture to rebuke them.
Yes it could be done privately, but this verse says to rebuke before the church if they dont repent.............[1 Timothy 5:20 KJV] "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear."
Looked it up in the dictionary, surrender/yield/submit:
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:7
Possibly you will say that isnt Paul's writings so it is not for us?
If you read my original post, we must be WILLING to surrender. Everything takes time, and none will be perfect this side of Heaven.
You don't believe a person should be willing to submit/yield/surrender to their Lord?
I imagine not, as you believe it does not matter what sin a person commits who say they are a believer, they cannot be judged for their actions. Paul of course, disputed that in Gal5:21
Just clarifying that if you dont submit you will still be saved, right?
If you are not willing to submit to your Lord, do you not think something is wrong?
If you are not willing you obviously think you can act however you like. We all take time to see the outworking of submittance in our lives to varying degrees, we all find some things harder than others to let go, and therefore submit to our Lord concerning them.
Please just a simple answer......if you dont surrender/submit are you saved?
OK, I will give you an example. If a person who claims to be a believer then lives a lifestyle of the worst of sins, their lack of surrendering/yielding in this regard proves they are not saved and never were saved. And it is in that context I posted to you, for that is what we were discussing.
You need to accept Paul's message in its entirety:
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you USED(USED) to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance Rom6:16&17
So that's clear, if you are a slave to sin, as Paul uses that terminology it leads to death. The Romans USED(USED) to be slaves to sin but obviously were no longer. They USED to have a lifestyle of wilfull sin, not caring about it/sin dominated their lives but had changed by following Paul's gospel message.
When you WERE(WERE)slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! Rom6:20&21
That's clear too, if you are/remain a slave to sin as Paul uses the word it ends in death, not life.
Do I accept more of what Paul wrote than dispensationalists do?
Why are you unable/unwilling to answer a simple question?
Do you have to surrender to be saved?
I just saw this
You are saying that if one doesn't give Christ their life proves they werent saved.
That's a false gospel we are to only believe the gospel and place our faith in Christ and his redemption.
Did you not actually read what I wrote? Please read it again.
It refers to submission in respect of not living a wanton lifestyle of sin/not being as Paul describes a slave of sin.
Why do dispensationalists not believe as much of Paul's writings as non dispensationalists do?
Let me be clear, because I am sure you do not understand Paul's message as a complete package. The believer is justified by faith apart from obeying the law, their righteousness is faith in Christ. But Paul is writing to believers, new creations as he put it. People who have the indwelling Holy Spirit. And, even if you do not agree, Paul states the law is now in gentiles hearts, meaning, in a believers heart they desire to live as God wants them to live in their heart(the flesh is another matter)
It is impossible for such a person, to carry on living a wanton lifestyle of sin, and Paul confirms this for he preaches Holy living, gives warnings to believers as to their behaviour, tells people if they are a slave to sin it leads to death, and stresses by following the truth of his message sin shall no longer be a persons master. If you only want to pick and choose which of parts of Paul's message you want to accept and which parts you want to ignore, that is your right, but others refuse to join you
bdavidc
Well-Known Member
- Mar 31, 2025
- 1,133
- 1,105
- 113
- 67
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
Scripture draws a clear line here, and it does not leave this fuzzy. We do not judge hearts in the sense of declaring who God will save. But we are commanded to judge profession by fruit. Jesus said plainly, “Ye shall know them by their fruits” ~Matthew 7:16, and He was speaking about false professors, not pagans. John is even more direct: “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar” ~1 John 2:4. That is not mind reading. That is observable evidence.
Paul does the same thing. He says those who practice the works of the flesh “shall not inherit the kingdom of God” ~Galatians 5:21, and he tells the church to put away the one who bears the name of brother while living in open, unrepentant sin ~1 Corinthians 5:11. That requires evaluation of behavior. Not to condemn, but to protect the gospel and call to repentance.
So no, behavior does not justify anyone. Christ alone justifies. But behavior absolutely reveals whether regeneration has taken place. Scripture says so, and we do not get to soften what God made plain.
I did read
Yes we are made free from sin, but you say if we dont turn from sin and show it by our lives, we cant say we are saved. You are adding works to the gospel. That goes beyond just believing the gospel that Christ died for our sins and rose for our justification.
I was very specific in the examples I kept giving you. If three months after conversion nothing had changed in a persons life, they still lived a wanton lifestyle of sin, nothing had changed at all since they professed conversion, then you would know they are not saved. To believe anything else is Im afraid, failing to understand Paul's message, or what he believed
Similar threads
