A Sword - Luke 22:36

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icxn

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Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."

Is it referring to the sword in Ephesians 6:17?
Absolutely! The Apostles did not conquer the world through violence, but through their Christ like virtues and their knowledge of God.

Quote:
Whoever possesses spiritual knowledge must always possess as well a rich store of virtue gained through his conduct. Scripture says, ‘He who has a purse,’ that is, spiritual knowledge, ‘let him take it, and his knapsack as well’ (Luke 22:36), that is, affluence of virtue with which he nourishes his soul. He who does not have a purse nor a knapsack, that is, knowledge and virtue, ‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword.’ By this Scripture means: let him give his own flesh (the garment) willingly to labors in pursuit of virtue, and for the sake of the peace of God let him wage war against passions and demons, wisely wielding the word of God (the sword) to discriminate (divide) between good and evil.
- Saint Maximos the Confessor, Two Hundred Texts on Theology​
 

Candidus

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Absolutely! The Apostles did not conquer the world through violence, but through their Christ like virtues and their knowledge of God.

Quote:
Whoever possesses spiritual knowledge must always possess as well a rich store of virtue gained through his conduct. Scripture says, ‘He who has a purse,’ that is, spiritual knowledge, ‘let him take it, and his knapsack as well’ (Luke 22:36), that is, affluence of virtue with which he nourishes his soul. He who does not have a purse nor a knapsack, that is, knowledge and virtue, ‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword.’ By this Scripture means: let him give his own flesh (the garment) willingly to labors in pursuit of virtue, and for the sake of the peace of God let him wage war against passions and demons, wisely wielding the word of God (the sword) to discriminate (divide) between good and evil.
- Saint Maximos the Confessor, Two Hundred Texts on Theology​
I am more of a spiritual giant that Maximus was! I can allegorize even better! Surely the knapsack was full of Pixie-Dust and Unicorn farts, since that would have been useful to the Apostles! I have just as much scriptural justification to say what was in that knapsack as the next guy with a wild imagination!

Allegorize this! ‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword.’ to mean that salvation is something merely bought and sold? That you can purchase the Spirit? The inconsistency of the allegorical approach of Maximus makes as much sense as adding Harry Potter to the cannon of Scripture.
 

Candidus

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Why do you fear this so much?

People with weapons in possession for self defense in their own homes have still died....
Do you lock the door on your house when you are home? How about when you are away?

Do you leave your car unlocked with the keys in it? Why not? Many houses that are locked get broken into, and many cars get stolen, even after being locked and no keys in the ignition.

Many people have a fire extinguisher in their house, and a fire still burns it down. In the U.S.A. wearing seatbelts while driving is the Law, yet thousands a year die while wearing seatbelts.

Why would anyone have a firearm as a means of defense?... Because God made all men free, and Colt made all men equal!
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Allegorize this! ‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword.’ to mean that salvation is something merely bought and sold? That you can purchase the Spirit? The inconsistency of the allegorical approach of Maximus makes as much sense as adding Harry Potter to the cannon of Scripture.

‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword’


Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Matthew 10:38-39 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. [39] He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Revelation 3:17-18 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: [18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

?
 
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Candidus

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‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword’
Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Let's go completely out of context and throw Scripture against the wall to see what sticks!
sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
First of all, it is a command to an individual, not every Christian! Secondly, it does not support selling to gain the Spirit or Salvation.

Matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.


Matthew 10:38-39 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. [39] He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Yes, Jesus spoke at times in parables, which are figurative. You cannot take something figurative, and translate every detail into something literal; that is not the intent of a parable. What I find interesting is that Jesus often tells us what He literally means by them! And the passage in Matthew does not disappoint! Go to 13:55 to see the point that Jesus says that He meant, "And He said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the Kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old." We can speculate... we can guess... we can add to or take away from what Jesus said, but when Jesus Himself tells us what He means by what He just said, speculating, adding to His meaning is arrogance and missing the point.

Revelation 3:17-18 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: [18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

The Book of John's Revelation is acknowledged to be the most figurative and mystical Books in the Bible. I find it interesting how people want to pick and choose what is literal, and what is figurative, mix them together and "Wha-Laa! Solid doctrine emerges!

A simple summary is that there is a "cost" to being a disciple of the Lord. To those that feel that they are rich, self-sufficient and do not need Christ, they are told that there is something even greater than what they already have, that what they have pales in comparison to what they still can gain. Giving up hope and trust in ourselves and our achievements and possessions is the "cost." Giving up that hope does not "buy" or "purchase" gold or white raiment, and worldly application of eyesalve will not allow you to see spiritually. Giving up our trust in ourselves and our riches does not "buy" salvation! Yet, the "conditions" of salvation have a "cost," and part of that cost is that you cannot literally buy it.

Yet because this is a metaphorical passage is in to way proof that what Jesus commanded in Luke 22:36, now does it!
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Allegorize this! ‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword.’ to mean that salvation is something merely bought and sold? That you can purchase the Spirit? The inconsistency of the allegorical approach of Maximus makes as much sense as adding Harry Potter to the cannon of Scripture.

Speaking of bag:
Luke 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.


sword or Sword of the Spirit
Curious Which would you rather: bags which wax old, moth eaten -and with holes ...or bags which wax not old, a treasure in heaven that fails not, where no thief approaches, neither moth consumes?
 

VictoryinJesus

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First of all, it is a command to an individual, not every Christian! Secondly, it does not support selling to gain the Spirit or Salvation.

is it not in Let His body have all things in common: One bag where thief does no approach, One purse, One Sword of the Spirit (One body), One voice, One Mind that is the Mind of Christ...
 
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Candidus

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is it not in Let His body have all things in common: One bag where thief does no approach, One purse, One Sword of the Spirit (One body), One voice, One Mind that is the Mind of Christ...
Nice! I can see where you rip my words out of context like you do the words of Scripture!
 

icxn

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I am more of a spiritual giant that Maximus was! I can allegorize even better! Surely the knapsack was full of Pixie-Dust and Unicorn farts, since that would have been useful to the Apostles! I have just as much scriptural justification to say what was in that knapsack as the next guy with a wild imagination!
The word knapsack comes from the word knapped which means to eat and sack for bag. In other words, it was used for storing food, especially by soldiers. Christ said that His food (John 4:34), and therefore that of His soldiers (the Apostles), was to do the will of His father. Virtue is nothing else but to know and do God's will.

A purse is used for storing money and other valuables such as pearls. Such a valuable item is wisdom, knowledge, understanding (Proverbs 20:15, Ecclesiastes 7:12)... things that pertain to spiritual knowledge.

In other words, the associations Saint Maximus is making are not arbitrary but scriptural. Christ spoke is parables all the time (Matthew 13:34), so it's not unreasonable to offer such an interpretation.
Allegorize this! ‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword.’ to mean that salvation is something merely bought and sold? That you can purchase the Spirit? The inconsistency of the allegorical approach of Maximus makes as much sense as adding Harry Potter to the cannon of Scripture.
The parable of the talents makes such a metaphor. Of course God is the one that provides the capital (it's not a matter of us purchasing our salvation) and expects a return on His investment on us.
 
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Candidus

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Speaking of bag:
Luke 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.


sword or Sword of the Spirit
Curious Which would you rather: bags which wax old, moth eaten -and with holes ...or bags which wax not old, a treasure in heaven that fails not, where no thief approaches, neither moth consumes?
This does not change that fact that in Luke 18:22, Jesus is speaking to an individual. There is no command that is applied to anyone else.

Luke 12:22..."And He said to His disciples..." Luke 12:41... "And Peter said, "Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?" Peter understood context! Jesus does not answer the question. Yet in context we know that Jesus was only addressing the disciples; that is a fact. Looking at what Jesus said in this dialog, one should look to what is said as to whether He speaks of a Universal Principle, or a Specific Application to just those He is peaking to. I can see many Universal Principles that would apply to believers for all time in what He said. Yet, I do know that the expectation to live penniless and wandering is not a Universal Principle, but applied to the Twelve.
 
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Candidus

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The word knapsack comes from the word knapped which means to eat and sack for bag.
To derive a meaning by reverse engineering English etymology and saying that it is equivalent to Greek, is not a sound method of finding Biblical meaning. The Greek word merely means "bag" that is certainly not the same thing as "purse" which you are correct. What was carried in that bag would have not been limited to food, but any other essentials for travel/survival. You can point to anyone carrying a modern Backpack (Knapsack), and all you can do is play the odds and make a guess as to what was in that bag. Is it food, a nuclear device, a teddy bear or condoms? To assume would not be anything to build decisions upon. The point that Jesus was telling the Disciples is that He was sending them out without any means or support whatsoever.

In other words, the associations Saint Maximus is making are not arbitrary but scriptural.

No, it is merely assuming what is in a bag. While the context would imply that food and other essentials were likely in that bag, it does not make his assumptions "Scriptural."
 
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Bobby Jo

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Perhaps the swords were just for an earthly sense of security for the disciples while Jesus was arrested.
I think it's literal as well, Josho, but it's an interesting question as to why the Lord would command this of them.

The text is as follows:
... 49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? ....

TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS. One was when we go into the world to take a PURSE, BAG, and SWORD. The second didn't use a PURSE or BAG. -- Don't confuse the two.

Bobby Jo
 

Davy

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Again as an outsider of the USA, I do not get it, as you will see my reasoning in post #2.

The point is, Peter would not have been carrying a sword if he didn't recognize a need for it, other than chopping fruit of course.
 

Davy

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Can also cause people to overreact and go too far with domestic violence.

You just don't get it. A weapon does not have a brain. It is but a tool. If someone is off in the head and wants to resort to violence, it doesn't have to be a gun, they could use just about anything to do violence with. So what will you do then when someone kills with a pencil? Will you then scream to ban pencils??? Your anti-gun argument is silly and ignorant, you just don't realize it yet.
 
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FollowHim

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I think it's literal as well, Josho, but it's an interesting question as to why the Lord would command this of them.

The text is as follows:

47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him. 48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss? 49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? 50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. 51 And Jesus answered and said, "Suffer ye thus far." And he touched his ear, and healed him.

I think what He meant by, "Suffer this much" was "Allow them to crucify me, but do not simply allow them to arrest and/ or kill all of you." I think there might have been the possibility of this, had the Lord not prepared them in advance to arm themselves.

For me the theme of the kingdom is service and meeting needs over domination and subservience to the powerful.

The sword represents force of arms to get ones will over people by obey or I kill you, as opposed to, listen to me and follow because you love and desire to know my ways. Jesus's command not to resist the evil person, is about not fighting for value by exerting ones will on others, rather by seeing need in others and giving as one can to meet it. So the roman soldier could force a person to carry their goods and stuff for one mile, but Jesus encourages us to take it two miles, to show meeting the need matters more than not maintaining ones own rights.

I have met on forums some who literally want to take away my right to believe as I do, to silence me, to do everything to show I am evil and wrong, while I am happy to help them and listen to their point of view and get to know them in the position they hold. I sincerely believe they believe for a good reason, and I want them to experience the love Jesus brings to our hearts through the cross and His words. One member did specifically say they wanted me silenced, and felt I was a lying deceiving evil person. What was ironic, when one of this group were exposed for their true behaviour and language, it was I who was evil is showing who they actually were. I think this defines the core of the problem of domination and the gospel of service and love. God bless you
 
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