A Sword - Luke 22:36

[Hidden In Him]

I was adding to your observation about a physical sword has significance, and expanding this on to how domination is a key description of how this world works. I hope you do not take this as opposing you position or suggesting you are taking one or another position, other than I was hoping to add a perspective to your observations.

God bless you

By the way, I find it helpful to add to someones observations that are similar to ones own, rather than picking a polarised view to seemingly oppose.

God bless, Follow Him. I take you to be a very good soul. I was just asking because I wasn't quite following you I guess.

And yes, teaching is often about adding to what people are already apt to receive. Thumbs up on that.

 

[icxn]

Consider: 1 Samuel 21:9 And the priest said, The sword of Goliath the Philistine, whom thou slewest in the valley of Elah, behold, it is here wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod: if thou wilt take that, take it : for there is no other save that here. And David said, There is none like that; give it me.

Good catch!

The spiritual Goliath's (the Devil's) sword was his scheme to kill Christ. But Christ's death (the sword) became his undoing - the cutting off of his head (Genesis 3:15, 1 Samuel 17:51). According to Saint Cyril of Alexandria the word ephod* interpreted means ransoming.

_____
* Also the priestly garment.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... I find it helpful to add to someones observations that are similar to ones own ....

Interesting that you prefer views which YOU LIKE, and disregard views which GOD LIKES.

Lke 22:36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.​

It seems the better choice would be the latter.

And as pointed out previously, when Corey ten Boom entered the Concentration Camp she SMUGGLED a Bible in with her, -- IN VIOLATION OF THE RUES --, because it's RIGHTEOUS to obey GOD over man. And some are afraid to purchase a gun because they obey man over GOD.

Bobby Jo

 

[FollowHim]

Interesting that you prefer views which YOU LIKE, and disregard views which GOD LIKES.

Lke 22:36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.​

It seems the better choice would be the latter.

And as pointed out previously, when Corey ten Boom entered the Concentration Camp she SMUGGLED a Bible in with her, -- IN VIOLATION OF THE RUES --, because it's RIGHTEOUS to obey GOD over man. And some are afraid to purchase a gun because they obey man over GOD.

Bobby Jo

I am encouraged you desire to listen to God. I fear though it's just justifying looking after yourself and not others.

I wonder if survivalists believe in community shelters and building food dumps for all. Those I have spoken with normally are these 5 people, that's it. In the war community shelters were a priority, but that is just too caring and obvious...... I think the world of Mad Max is what they are thinking of.

Imagine hospitals took this view about covid, only my family gets helped, they would be the first to complain ...... God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

It's interesting being told I am ignoring God's word, when I am desiring to listen and follow.

On the last day all will become clear, and so many claim to speak on God's behalf to others. I prefer to share and invite others to explore with God His truth. God defines it to each, I can only share God's speaking to my heart.

Ironically saying people are lying becomes just shouting. It is freeing to know only the elect listen to Jesus, praise God. The rest does not matter.

God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Did Satan kill Jesus?
No, it was evil men who could not cope if Jesus was God. So their only option was to get rid of Him.

The idea He was the Lord meant they were doomed, because repentance was not on their agenda.

Jesus would resurrect if He was God, so of course that was not going to happen. 2 months later the apostles declare exactly this. Saul watches as they stone Stephen. I mean they must be lying, people do not resurrect. Hard hearts and power blind people from the obvious. God bless you

 

[Giuliano]

What is the sword of Gideon?

"And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along.
And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host.
And it was so, when Gideon heard the telling of the dream, and the interpretation thereof, that he worshipped, and returned into the host of Israel, and said, Arise; for the LORD hath delivered into your hand the host of Midian" Judges 7:13-15

If the barley cake has something to do with the offering of the sheaf of barley for the Feast of Unleavened Bread, perhaps Gideon's sword stood for the avenging angel of Passover.

 

[amadeus]

If the barley cake has something to do with the offering of the sheaf of barley for the Feast of Unleavened Bread, perhaps Gideon's sword stood for the avenging angel of Passover.

I don't know. I am reading and considering what each one has said here,, but I really don't know. God's people were delivered in Egypt and from the Midianites. Those who are His now are, or are to be, delivered as well. The sword on the other hand kills those who are Not to be delivered...

 

[Bobby Jo]

I am encouraged you desire to listen to God. I fear though it's just justifying looking after yourself and not others. ...

If you heed GOD's World, you cover all bases. If you do what YOU want, all bets are off.

Bobby Jo

 

[Waiting on him]

I am encouraged you desire to listen to God. I fear though it's just justifying looking after yourself and not others.

I wonder if survivalists believe in community shelters and building food dumps for all. Those I have spoken with normally are these 5 people, that's it. In the war community shelters were a priority, but that is just too caring and obvious...... I think the world of Mad Max is what they are thinking of.

Imagine hospitals took this view about covid, only my family gets helped, they would be the first to complain ...... God bless you

Jesus didn’t seek to save His life, rather laid it down for others, fear causes cowards to commit extreme acts.
The author will step on the stage and determine who has the power to put off self, hopefully by the grace of God I’ll be numbered among them.

 

[Bobby Jo]

It's interesting being told I am ignoring God's word, when I am desiring to listen and follow. ...

Lke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.​

You can practice DOING WHAT YOU WANT, but the outcome may not be as successful. And the Clock is counting down to when you WON'T be able to provide for yourself.

We ALL Choose ...
Bobby Jo

 

[FollowHim]

Lke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.​

You can practice DOING WHAT YOU WANT, but the outcome may not be as successful. And the Clock is counting down to when you WON'T be able to provide for yourself.

We ALL Choose ...
Bobby Jo

Not sure what you are saying. I cannot provide for myself, I live by grace alone and all the blessing God gives me.
When He calls me home, amen, and until then I will just praise His Holy Name.

You seem to be living in a different kingdom and world to me. In the Kingdom, Jesus reigns and Him we serve.
I see you are suffering from projection, projecting your ideas onto other people and telling them what they are doing and what they should be doing. And no matter what such people respond, they are only speaking the truth if they agree or lying if they do not.

Unfortunately insanity is defined when we make up the world around us to conform to our ideas about it. For some their brains create delusions and hallucinations, while others it is just projections on to others.

What I have learnt is the only thing that matters is the truth, seeing and responding to it. Jesus described this as the truth setting us free.
Whether others see it or not does not change the reality, and in the end only affects them, so it is to their benefit if they see the truth also, but if not, it is never our loss. It is like when you see a tree in a garden, one does not expect the tree to understand the garden or ones perspective, it would be stupid to try and get the tree to accept ones perspective. And because you know how to tell whether a tree is safe or not, its thoughts actually are not important. It is why when people get angry or come with serious invented accusation on a forum, it simply does not matter, they can do nothing, the environment is totally neutral and secure. Unfortunately some get very upset and hurt, and want real retaliation, but then they wanted something else which the other parties could neither deliver or were interested in other than causing upset.

So I share this love and security in Jesus and the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. It is the most precious thing anyone can share and I wish you well, God bless you

 

[Bobby Jo]

... You seem to be living in a different kingdom and world ...

Please change your statement to: ... GOD seems to be living in a different kingdom and world ... -- HE wrote Lke 22:36, not me.


And I have NO CLUE why you have SUCH A PROBLEM rejecting GOD's Word. It's SIMPLE: you say you don't AGREE, and then you go your own way. -- Is that so HARD?!? So do it. Tell GOD that HE's an IDIOT and YOU'RE SO MUCH SMARTER, and then see if it's true.

The PROOF is in the pudding.
Bobby Jo

 

[FollowHim]

Please change your statement to: ... GOD seems to be living in a different kingdom and world ... -- HE wrote Lke 22:36, not me.


And I have NO CLUE why you have SUCH A PROBLEM rejecting GOD's Word. It's SIMPLE: you say you don't AGREE, and then you go your own way. -- Is that so HARD?!? So do it. Tell GOD that HE's an IDIOT and YOU'RE SO MUCH SMARTER, and then see if it's true.

The PROOF is in the pudding.
Bobby Jo

There is a strange application you have made. A historical story is written of what Jesus and the apostles did.
In Luke 22:36-37

36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
37 It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
Luke 22:36-37

Jesus specifically is addressing the group he is speaking to. I asked you to do this, in the past, now I am asking you to do something else because it will demonstrate I am numbered with the transgressors. He links this action to the fulfillment of His ministry.

Now the interpretation you are referring to takes this passage as a command for us to take up swords to defend ourselves.
That is not what is being described here. On the literal basis of this interpretation every christian should always be carrying a sword with them. Now the specific situation it is referring to is actually answered in the passage.

38 The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords.That is enough," he replied.
Luke 22:38

So Jesus asks the question about swords. The disciples respond and say we have two swords here. Jesus responds then that is enough.
Now if them having two swords is enough to answer Jesus's request, how can you now suggest I have to fulfil this command today by having a sword now with me? Now you could argue, we are always transgressors who should always defend ourselves and our property against evil people except Jesus said this

39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
41 If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Matt 5:39-42

So I suggest if one extrapolates one scripture to suggest an extreme approach to others that contradicts the approach and intention of Jesus, that extrapolation is wrong.

There is a theology that supports revolution, the right of individuals to overthrow evil oppressors. The problem with this you have to invert the priorities of the Kingdom where love always overrides possessions and rights. Judas wanted a king to overthrow the Romans, except Jesus is the King that in the Kingdom to come overthrows all powers and authority, but not here and now. Here and now we follow Jesus's example

20 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory.
Matthew 12:20

We are His people and follow His example.

 

[Waiting on him]

There is a strange application you have made. A historical story is written of what Jesus and the apostles did.
In Luke 22:36-37

36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
37 It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
Luke 22:36-37

Jesus specifically is addressing the group he is speaking to. I asked you to do this, in the past, now I am asking you to do something else because it will demonstrate I am numbered with the transgressors. He links this action to the fulfillment of His ministry.

Now the interpretation you are referring to takes this passage as a command for us to take up swords to defend ourselves.
That is not what is being described here. On the literal basis of this interpretation every christian should always be carrying a sword with them. Now the specific situation it is referring to is actually answered in the passage.

38 The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords.That is enough," he replied.
Luke 22:38

So Jesus asks the question about swords. The disciples respond and say we have two swords here. Jesus responds then that is enough.
Now if them having two swords is enough to answer Jesus's request, how can you now suggest I have to fulfil this command today by having a sword now with me? Now you could argue, we are always transgressors who should always defend ourselves and our property against evil people except Jesus said this

39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
41 If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Matt 5:39-42

So I suggest if one extrapolates one scripture to suggest an extreme approach to others that contradicts the approach and intention of Jesus, that extrapolation is wrong.

There is a theology that supports revolution, the right of individuals to overthrow evil oppressors. The problem with this you have to invert the priorities of the Kingdom where love always overrides possessions and rights. Judas wanted a king to overthrow the Romans, except Jesus is the King that in the Kingdom to come overthrows all powers and authority, but not here and now. Here and now we follow Jesus's example

20 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory.
Matthew 12:20

We are His people and follow His example.

Excellent post!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Now the interpretation you are referring to takes this passage as a command for us to take up swords to defend ourselves.

Good post. All of it and (imo) see how it applies to being numbered with the transgressors. Considering when Peter was asked were you not with them, did we not see you with Him and Peter denied knowing Him. Yet then do not see how ‘as a command to take up swords to defend ourselves’ becomes taking up arms (guns, or maybe carrying a literal sword in a sheath which I haven’t seen many do today) becomes the command over
2 Corinthians 10:3-6 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If the barley cake has something to do with the offering of the sheaf of barley for the Feast of Unleavened Bread, perhaps Gideon's sword stood for the avenging angel of Passover.

was reading last night an odd passage and do not know if it applies, but consider:
1 Chronicles 21:13-17 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the Lord ; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man. [14] So the Lord sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men. [15] And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the Lord beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the Lord stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. [16] And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the Lord stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces. [17] And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O Lord my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.

1 Chronicles 21:22 Then David said to Ornan, Grant me the place of this threshingfloor, that I may build an altar therein unto the Lord : thou shalt grant it me for the full price: that the plague may be stayed from the people.

John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

1 Chronicles 21:27-30 And the Lord commanded the angel; and he put up his sword again into the sheath thereof. [28] At that time when David saw that the Lord had answered him in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite, then he sacrificed there. [29] For the tabernacle of the Lord, which Moses made in the wilderness, and the altar of the burnt offering, were at that season in the high place at Gibeon. [30] But David could not go before it to enquire of God: for he was afraid because of the sword of the angel of the Lord.

Yet ...having boldness to come before God instead of ‘could not go before it to enquirer of God’ and perfect love cast out fear Romans 8:31-35 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? [32] He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? [33] Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. [34] Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. [35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (For I am come to set a man at variance...)

Revelation 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

 

[Waiting on him]

was reading last night an odd passage and do not know if it applies, but consider:
1 Chronicles 21:13-17 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the Lord ; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man. [14] So the Lord sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men. [15] And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the Lord beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the Lord stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. [16] And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the Lord stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces. [17] And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O Lord my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.

1 Chronicles 21:22 Then David said to Ornan, Grant me the place of this threshingfloor, that I may build an altar therein unto the Lord : thou shalt grant it me for the full price: that the plague may be stayed from the people.

John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

1 Chronicles 21:27-30 And the Lord commanded the angel; and he put up his sword again into the sheath thereof. [28] At that time when David saw that the Lord had answered him in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite, then he sacrificed there. [29] For the tabernacle of the Lord, which Moses made in the wilderness, and the altar of the burnt offering, were at that season in the high place at Gibeon. [30] But David could not go before it to enquire of God: for he was afraid because of the sword of the angel of the Lord.

Yet ...having boldness to come before God instead of ‘could not go before it to enquirer of God’ and perfect love cast out fear Romans 8:31-35 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? [32] He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? [33] Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. [34] Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. [35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (For I am come to set a man at variance...)

Revelation 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Hide me I’m naked.

 

[Waiting on him]

Good post. All of it and (imo) see how it applies to being numbered with the transgressors. Considering when Peter was asked were you not with them, did we not see you with Him and Peter denied knowing Him. Yet then do not see how ‘as a command to take up swords to defend ourselves’ becomes taking up arms (guns, or maybe carrying a literal sword in a sheath which I haven’t seen many do today) becomes the command over
2 Corinthians 10:3-6 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Some will pervert scripture to say anything, to condone disobedience and cowardice.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hide me I’m naked.

2 Corinthians 5:2 Lexicon: For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,

2 Corinthians 5:3 Lexicon: inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.
...put off the old man with his deeds; [10] And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


2 Corinthians 5:4 Lexicon: For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Lexicon: Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, ...1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Colossians 3:9-11 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; [10] And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: [11] Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: