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Featured A Sword - Luke 22:36

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Josho, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    @Bobby Jo @FollowHim

    Anyone else feel free to participate or answer, I just saw some chatter about the sword in the anti-mask thread though.

    Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."

    Is the sword mentioned in Luke 22:36 a physical weapon?

    Or is it referring to the sword in Ephesians 6:17?

    13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  2. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    As I have said before, there's not actually a single account in the New Testament of the original apostles having to defend themselves with a sword from persecution in the New Testament.
     
  3. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Let's see, -- The Money Bag (PURSE) is LITERAL; the Knapsack (BAG) is LITERAL; the Garment (CLOAK) is LITERAL; but the Sword is FIGURATIVE?

    WHO HAS AN AGENDA?!? ANYONE?!? -- WE CAN'T BE CHRISTIANS IF WE HAVE A SWORD. CAN SOMEONE HELP DISPUTE WHAT SCRIPTURE TELLS US TO DO SO THAT OUR RELIGIOSITY CAN SUPERSEDE SCRIPTURE?!?


    Really? Is this where the church is today? So bent on religious expectations that we REFUSE facts in Scripture?
    Bobby Jo
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  4. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I think it was a physical sword. Then the question is why would Jesus first tell his disciples to get swords only to tell Peter later not to use his?

    The context is key. This was shortly before the crucifixion and Jesus knew the Jewish leaders wanted to see him dead. If you read the Gospel of John carefully, you see how John knew about things that happened in the inner circles of the Sanhedrin. He tells us things that the other Gospels don't. It seems fairly clear that Nicodemus was his source. How else could John know about his meeting with Nicodemus? Either Jesus or Nicodemus had to tell him about it. When you read about how the Sanhedrin sent out spies and had them report back, I think John knew about it because Nicodemus kept him informed -- and then John told Jesus what he had heard from Nicodemus.

    Perhaps one of the worst things that could have happened would have been if they could hired one or two assassins to kill Jesus privately. That would derailed Heaven's plan since Jesus was meant to be crucified publicly and by the Roman system of justice. He had told Nicodemus years before that he was meant to be lifted up as Moses had lifted up the serpent on the pole. If Jesus had been assassinated instead of being crucified, Satan would have won the round. That is the context; and if someone had tried to kill Jesus unlawfully, I feel confident the swords would have been used in self defense.

    There was a plot to kill him unlawfully.

    Matthew 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
    3 Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,
    4 And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him.
    5 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.


    Judas would have been present, and he would have known about two swords anyway. We aren't told that Judas informed the Sanhedrin that Jesus' disciples were armed, but I figure they discussed it. The plot to assassinate in some secluded area probably wouldn't be carried out. If they wanted Jesus dead, they'd probably have to arrest him without killing him and turn him over to the Romans.

    Note now that the Sanhedrin sent a group of servants who were armed with swords and staves instead of assassins. They didn't have the right to put people on trial and impose the death penalty; but they could have used their swords if Jesus had resisted arrest and had his disciples use their swords.

    Peter was not informed about all the details. He thought he should use his sword. Yes, they were outnumbered; and a brawl could have led to Jesus and the eleven disciples being killed. Peter didn't care. He was willing to die fighting. That would have pleased the Sanhedrin, but it wasn't what Jesus wanted. It would also have been wrong to resist arrest. Jesus then mocks them a little, asking them why they didn't arrest him when it would have been so much easier when he was teaching in the Temple. He knew why, and they knew why. They didn't want to risk arresting him publicly, preferring to assassinate him; and now that he wasn't resisting arrest, they still couldn't kill him without breaking the Roman law themselves.

    It was important that Jesus be condemned under Roman law. All authority originates from God, and the Roman authority had. It was pagan however and needed to be replaced. God does not bring down governments unless they abuse their authority egregiously the way Pharaoh had when he ordered innocent babies killed. Here it was Pilate abusing his authority by knowingly condemning someone he knew was innocent to death. Governments are meant by God to protect the innocent. When they don't, they cease being legitimate governments. They no longer have God's backing. So Jesus, by allowing himself to be executed unjustly, set in motion a process that ended with the elimination of the pagan system of the Romans. Every Christian put to death unjustly by the Romans helped topple the pagan system. There is a good reason for God's servants to be willing to die. Evil can be erased from the earth -- but the cases must be very clear. One side must be guilty and the other completely innocent. If there is guilt on both sides, even minor guilt on one side, Heaven will not act. If two people want to fight, don't interfere.

    Notice also how Pilate allowed himself to cater to the Jewish leaders, mixing religion and politics. He corrupted Roman justice, and the Jewish leaders were corrupting their religion by playing "the whore" with the government. It is fine. Let them kill the saints, let them get drunk on the blood of the saints. Salvation can follow after the whore is brought down to desolation by the very lovers she consorted with.
     
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  5. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    It means a LITERAL PHYSICAL SWORD.

    Luke 22:38
    38 And they said, "Lord, behold, here are two swords." And He said unto them, "It is enough."
    KJV


    His disciples were sent on the open road where there would be thieves, murderers, and wild animals. God gave man the right to defend himself. The turn the other cheek command was in regards to those who are offended by the preaching of The Gospel, not about the thief or murderer coming at you with a knife to try and kill you.

    This is why the U.S. Constitution founders spoke of the 2nd Amendment right of the people to bear arms as an inalienable God given right.
     
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  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I think it's literal as well, Josho, but it's an interesting question as to why the Lord would command this of them.

    The text is as follows:

    47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him. 48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss? 49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? 50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. 51 And Jesus answered and said, "Suffer ye thus far." And he touched his ear, and healed him.

    I think what He meant by, "Suffer this much" was "Allow them to crucify me, but do not simply allow them to arrest and/ or kill all of you." I think there might have been the possibility of this, had the Lord not prepared them in advance to arm themselves.
     
  7. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Hidden In Him Interesting to reflect that the Lord Jesus had the authority to wield a sword, but, going to the Cross, did not use it.
     
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  8. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Peter had been a Zealot, the revolutionary military arm of the Jews against the Roman occupation. Most likely that is why he still carried a sword. The fact that two disciples each held up a sword they had also points to going armed in those days was a common theme because of the times, and not necessarily as rebellion against a political correctness doctrine.
     
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  9. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Josho Good point...
     
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  10. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    A weapon for self-protection is useless if one doesn't have it when it's needed. Not having used it yet doesn't mean there's no need.
     
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  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. The context makes that clear.
    No. The Sword of the Spirit is the written Word of God, the Bible.

    Are Christians allowed to defend themselves and their loved ones with weapons? Absolutely. Whether or not they prefer to avoid weapons is another matter.

    Does God approve of the executioner's sword? Absolutely. The New Testament allows for capital punishment for heinous crimes. Today there is no executioner's sword, but the death penalty is still valid.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  12. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    If someone threatens the safety of me or my family, it'll be like carrying a Spare and having to change a tire. Something I'd rather not have to do, but can as necessary.

    Bobby Jo
     
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  13. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    Again as an outsider of the USA, I do not get it, as you will see my reasoning in post #2.
     
  14. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    But then what do people do these days? Buy the written word of God, or someone else who buys it, gives it to them.

    Back then did they buy a copy of the scriptures from the scribes?
     
  15. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    Why do you fear this so much?

    People with weapons in possession for self defense in their own homes have still died....
     
  16. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    ... can cause bad people to think twice, or to stop thinking altogether ...

    Bobby Jo
     
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  17. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    Can also cause people to overreact and go too far with domestic violence.
     
  18. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    This is quite a response, but sword or no sword, God's plan wouldn't have allowed Jesus to die another way anyway, as the prophesies had to be fulfilled.
     
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  19. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    Perhaps the swords were just for an earthly sense of security for the disciples while Jesus was arrested.
     
  20. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    I believe the Sword is Literal.

    They were first sent, without purse, without script.

    Scribes were writing NT script.
    A Treasury of the disciples was established.

    Thereafter they went out to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ....
    With Script;
    With Purse.

    And: Jesus' impending Crucifixion was sure to make, the Disciples Preaching, more and more difficult.
    The Jews Against Jesus, became more hostile, IMO- Jesus having been Crucified, gave Jews a sense, they were justified to be bolder Against the disciples.

    I believe the Sword, common and visible, type weapon, was a show of Personal willingness to Defend what they were Preaching...

    Reflecting...
    Matt 26:
    [52] Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    Taking a Sword...is not drawing a Sword... and Jesus did tell them...
    Buy a Sword, if you do not have one;
    Basically, keep it in its Sheath.

    In short...
    As Jesus, could have called out to God for a league of angels and stop the soldiers from taking Him...He went willingly.
    (Matt 26:53)

    It is OTHERS knowing, the Disciples could Defend themselves, but THEY like Jesus were willing to Give Their LIFE, for the Word of God...

    And OTHERS, would See, they have a Sword, but would never draw it.

    Others would SEE their willingness to Die, For the Word of God.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
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