A Sword - Luke 22:36

[Josho]

Nice! I can see where you rip my words out of context like you do the words of Scripture!

Candidus, if it was a literal, wouldn't the physical sword have been mentioned more and emphasized more in the NT? .

 

[Candidus]

Candidus, if it was a literal, wouldn't the physical sword have been mentioned more and emphasized more in the NT? .

So, in Luke 10:4 Jesus commanded the Disciples to go out into the streets but not to not take their purse or their scrip, with them, (and this would include a knapsack).... that He only meant that they leave their "spiritual knowledge" at home? That they should not take the "affluence of virtue with which He nourishes the soul" and leave their "knowledge and virtue at home? We wouldn't want to take Jesus literally!

‘He who has a purse,’ that is, spiritual knowledge, ‘let him take it, and his knapsack as well’ (Luke 22:36), that is, affluence of virtue with which he nourishes his soul. He who does not have a purse nor a knapsack, that is, knowledge and virtue, ‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword.’ By this Scripture means: let him give his own flesh (the garment) willingly to labors in pursuit of virtue, and for the sake of the peace of God let him wage war against passions and demons, wisely wielding the word of God (the sword) to discriminate (divide) between good and evil.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Candidus, if it was a literal, wouldn't the physical sword have been mentioned more and emphasized more in the NT? .

When we see something only mentioned ONCE, -- I guess it's OK to ignore it. THAT'S A LOT OF SCRIPTURE!

Whew,
Bobby Jo

 

[bbyrd009]

well i think the doctrine of "Witness" is a decently established one?

Absolutely! The Apostles did not conquer the world through violence, but through their Christ like virtues and their knowledge of God.

Quote:

Whoever possesses spiritual knowledge must always possess as well a rich store of virtue gained through his conduct. Scripture says, ‘He who has a purse,’ that is, spiritual knowledge, ‘let him take it, and his knapsack as well’ (Luke 22:36), that is, affluence of virtue with which he nourishes his soul. He who does not have a purse nor a knapsack, that is, knowledge and virtue, ‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword.’ By this Scripture means: let him give his own flesh (the garment) willingly to labors in pursuit of virtue, and for the sake of the peace of God let him wage war against passions and demons, wisely wielding the word of God (the sword) to discriminate (divide) between good and evil.
- Saint Maximos the Confessor, Two Hundred Texts on Theology​

I am more of a spiritual giant that Maximus was! I can allegorize even better! Surely the knapsack was full of Pixie-Dust and Unicorn farts, since that would have been useful to the Apostles! I have just as much scriptural justification to say what was in that knapsack as the next guy with a wild imagination!

Allegorize this! ‘let him sell his garment and buy a sword.’ to mean that salvation is something merely bought and sold? That you can purchase the Spirit? The inconsistency of the allegorical approach of Maximus makes as much sense as adding Harry Potter to the cannon of Scripture.

i would be curious if there was any Support for those definitions in the Bible, like there is for "sword" and even "garment," which i dunno could be our own flesh, maybe; but im reminded of "garment of skins" in the Garden, which suggests otherwise

 

[bbyrd009]

Candidus, if it was a literal, wouldn't the physical sword have been mentioned more and emphasized more in the NT? .

interesting to me that Peter cuts off an ear with a sword, only for it to be put back on, after Peter is admonished, for using the sword

also, ive heard "we have two swords right here"
"it is enough" interpreted as (well ill be) here,
Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That's enough!” he replied. ... And He said to them, It is enough - not 'Two swords will suffice,' but 'Enough of this for the present'. Sell your cloak and buy a sword - Wikipedia

 

[bbyrd009]

Peter cuts off an ear with a sword

Peter cuts off the ear of Malchus,

The name Malchus: Summary

Meaning
King, Reigning
Etymology
From the noun מלך (melek), king.
Related names
• Via מלך (melek): Abimelech, Adrammelech, Ahimelech, Allammelech, Anammelech, Ebed-melech, Elimelech, Hammoleketh, Jamlech, Malcam, Malchiel, Malchijah, Malchiram, Malchi-shua, Malluch, Malluchi, Melchi, Melchizedek, Melech, Melecheth-hashamayim, Milcah, Milcom, Molech, Moloch, Nathan-melech, Regemmelech

interesting

 

[Josho]

interesting to me that Peter cuts off an ear with a sword, only for it to be put back on, after Peter is admonished, for using the sword

also, ive heard "we have two swords right here"
"it is enough" interpreted as (well ill be) here,
Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That's enough!” he replied. ... And He said to them, It is enough - not 'Two swords will suffice,' but 'Enough of this for the present'. Sell your cloak and buy a sword - Wikipedia

Hmm, in the modern translations, it would seem Jesus said it in such a way that it sounded like a short rebuke.

"That is enough!" exclamation mark.

It does seem like He wasn't too pleased about the two swords.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
"That is enough!" exclamation mark. ...

... and then HE said, WHO HAS MY PURSE? Get it and BRIBE THESE ASSASSINS.

But it didn't work. So then HE said, WHO HAS MY BAG? Give it to me and stop stealing the SNICKERS BARS®. Those are for ME!


And then he was taken away.

Of course this "exchange" is only documented in the "Josho AMPLIFIED Version".
Bobby Jo

 

[Hidden In Him]

For me the theme of the kingdom is service and meeting needs over domination and subservience to the powerful.

The sword represents force of arms to get ones will over people by obey or I kill you, as opposed to, listen to me and follow because you love and desire to know my ways. Jesus's command not to resist the evil person, is about not fighting for value by exerting ones will on others, rather by seeing need in others and giving as one can to meet it. So the roman soldier could force a person to carry their goods and stuff for one mile, but Jesus encourages us to take it two miles, to show meeting the need matters more than not maintaining ones own rights.

I have met on forums some who literally want to take away my right to believe as I do, to silence me, to do everything to show I am evil and wrong, while I am happy to help them and listen to their point of view and get to know them in the position they hold. I sincerely believe they believe for a good reason, and I want them to experience the love Jesus brings to our hearts through the cross and His words. One member did specifically say they wanted me silenced, and felt I was a lying deceiving evil person. What was ironic, when one of this group were exposed for their true behaviour and language, it was I who was evil is showing who they actually were. I think this defines the core of the problem of domination and the gospel of service and love. God bless you

Ok. Not quite sure how to take this since you addressed it to me.

Without suggesting I'm taking offense, why were sharing this with me? Was this directed at me as being "the powerful," or were you wanting my thoughts on it as one who shares your position or your thoughts on the issue.

God bless, and wishing you the best.
Hidden

 

[charity]

@charity what do you reckon?

'And He said unto them,
"When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? "
And they said, "Nothing."
Then said He unto them,
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip:
and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in Me,
'And He was reckoned among the transgressors:'
for the things concerning me have an end."
And they said,
"Lord, behold, here are two swords."
And He said unto them, "It is enough."
( Luke 22:35-38 )

Hello @Josho,

You have had many interesting thoughts expressed in response to your OP, so there is little that I can add. However I do believe that it was a literal sword in Luke 22. For while the Lord was with them He kept them in the Father's Name (John 17:12), and when they were sent out in His Name, without purse etc., they testified that they had 'lacked nothing'. However, He now refers His disciples to Isaiah 53:12:-

'Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great,
and He shall divide the spoil with the strong;
because He hath poured out His soul unto death:
and He was numbered with the transgressors;
and He bare the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.'​

* His soul was to be poured out unto death very shortly. He would no longer be with them physically, to defend them. He prayed for them, that the Father would, 'keep them from the evil,' that was in the world (John 17:15). Yet, though they would undoubtedly be kept from the evil that was in the world; history shows that many would be killed because of their testimony concerning the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Lord had said:-

'But all these things will they do unto you for My Name's sake,
because they know not Him that sent me.'
(John 15:21)

* Throughout their ministry the disciples would be travelling through dangerous terrain, they were to equip themselves, and ensure that they had the means to provide for their physical safety and for their daily needs.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[amadeus]

well i think the doctrine of "Witness" is a decently established one?


i would be curious if there was any Support for those definitions in the Bible, like there is for "sword" and even "garment," which i dunno could be our own flesh, maybe; but im reminded of "garment of skins" in the Garden, which suggests otherwise

What is the sword of Gideon?

"And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along.
And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host.
And it was so, when Gideon heard the telling of the dream, and the interpretation thereof, that he worshipped, and returned into the host of Israel, and said, Arise; for the LORD hath delivered into your hand the host of Midian" Judges 7:13-15

 

[amadeus]

Peter cuts off the ear of Malchus,

The name Malchus: Summary

Meaning
King, Reigning
Etymology
From the noun מלך (melek), king.
Related names
• Via מלך (melek): Abimelech, Adrammelech, Ahimelech, Allammelech, Anammelech, Ebed-melech, Elimelech, Hammoleketh, Jamlech, Malcam, Malchiel, Malchijah, Malchiram, Malchi-shua, Malluch, Malluchi, Melchi, Melchizedek, Melech, Melecheth-hashamayim, Milcah, Milcom, Molech, Moloch, Nathan-melech, Regemmelech

interesting

Not time yet to remove the ruling king of darkness from among men.

"...for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." Gen 15:16

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die;...
A time to kill, and a time to heal;...
time to rend, and a time to sew;...
...a time of war, and a time of peace." Ecc 3:1-3,7-8

 

[icxn]

What is the sword of Gideon?

The sword of Gideon represents spiritual labors undertaken for the sake of repentance. They are likened to a barley bread, which is food for beasts and not the perfect bread of doing the will of God out of love and gratitude, but it still nourishes the soul. When such labors gain momentum they tumble into and overturn the lust/passion (tent) of fornication (Midianites). It should be obvious why the Midianites are a type of the demons of fornication.

 

[Waiting on him]

This is quite a response, but sword or no sword, God's plan wouldn't have allowed Jesus to die another way anyway, as the prophesies had to be fulfilled.

Yes He has orchestrated the whole thing as well as the presentation of the Gospel.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And He said unto them,
"When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? "
And they said, "Nothing."
Then said He unto them,
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip:
and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in Me,
'And He was reckoned among the transgressors:'
for the things concerning me have an end."
And they said,
"Lord, behold, here are two swords."
And He said unto them, "It is enough."
( Luke 22:35-38 )

‘And He was reckoned among the transgressors’. thank you for sharing that passage.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What is the sword of Gideon?

Consider: 1 Samuel 21:9 And the priest said, The sword of Goliath the Philistine, whom thou slewest in the valley of Elah, behold, it is here wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod: if thou wilt take that, take it : for there is no other save that here. And David said, There is none like that; give it me.

Matthew 27:58-59 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. [59] And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,

‘wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod:’
Can’t remember what ‘ephod’ means but wrong or right see His body wrapped as the sword of Gideon used in removal of the head of the giant.

Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along.
And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon

 

[Bobby Jo]

‘And He was reckoned among the transgressors’. thank you for sharing that passage.

TWO DIFFERENT ASPECTS. -- Don't combine them as though there were ONE, unless you're willing to account for why Jesus ALSO needed the PURSE and a BAG at the Garden:

... and then HE said, WHO HAS MY PURSE? Get it and BRIBE THESE ASSASSINS.

But it didn't work. So then HE said, WHO HAS MY BAG? Give it to me and stop stealing the SNICKERS BARS®. Those are for ME!

And then he was taken away.​

Oh, -- I'm sorry. You weren't presenting Scripture, you were arguing your POLITICS. -- I was only addressing Scripture!
Bobby Jo

 

[amadeus]

Consider: 1 Samuel 21:9 And the priest said, The sword of Goliath the Philistine, whom thou slewest in the valley of Elah, behold, it is here wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod: if thou wilt take that, take it : for there is no other save that here. And David said, There is none like that; give it me.

Matthew 27:58-59 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. [59] And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,

‘wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod:’
Can’t remember what ‘ephod’ means but wrong or right see His body wrapped as the sword of Gideon used in removal of the head of the giant.

Thank you for that! I had missed that connection. Probably we could tie in the beheading of John the Baptist here as well.

The ephod was something especially worn/used by the Aaronic priests, but David, not of the tribe of Levi, also became involved.

 

[FollowHim]

Ok. Not quite sure how to take this since you addressed it to me.

Without suggesting I'm taking offense, why were sharing this with me? Was this directed at me as being "the powerful," or were you wanting my thoughts on it as one who shares your position or your thoughts on the issue.

God bless, and wishing you the best.
Hidden

I was adding to your observation about a physical sword has significance, and expanding this on to how domination is a key description of how this world works. I hope you do not take this as opposing you position or suggesting you are taking one or another position, other than I was hoping to add a perspective to your observations.

God bless you

By the way, I find it helpful to add to someones observations that are similar to ones own, rather than picking a polarised view to seemingly oppose.

 

[farouk]

‘And He was reckoned among the transgressors’. thank you for sharing that passage.

@VictoryinJesus Such a lot is rooted in Old Testament Scripture...