A Time Before Land-- looking back.... A New Adventure Series with Mr E

[O'Darby]

Oh good grief. You are dismissed.

Please keep junk in your own backyard.

The part where ScottA quotes himself from another thread was a response to me on that thread. He characterized what I had said as my "misunderstanding," whereas yours is an "error." I pointed out that the fact we have different understandings doesn't mean mine is a misunderstanding. Scott's theory that this life is merely a working out of things previously determined is interesting (and, as I pointed out, strikes me as pretty close to Calvinism), but it isn't my understanding.

End of interruptions. Carry on!

 

[ScottA]

Oh good grief. You are dismissed.

Please keep junk in your own backyard.

This is all of our backyard.

But, okay, just one last point: You do realize that you just responded as virtually all have first done down through the ages when confronted with the truth from God. But no, it appears you don't. Nothing new under the sun. Still...the message is: Change.

 

[Mr E]

The part where ScottA quotes himself from another thread was a response to me on that thread. He characterized what I had said as my "misunderstanding," whereas yours is an "error." I pointed out that the fact we have different understandings doesn't mean mine is a misunderstanding. Scott's theory that this life is merely a working out of things previously determined is interesting (and, as I pointed out, strikes me as pretty close to Calvinism), but it isn't my understanding.

End of interruptions. Carry on!

I don’t mind the interludes, when I can make sense of them. But part of ‘my error’ must be rarely reading the nonsense @ScottA routinely posts. I also made the error of reading his book and that was more than enough for me. (Seek first to understand…. Then run!)

I don’t read every thread here, so I don’t know what he was going on about when he indulged himself with a quote that I have no idea about or where it came from. And I don’t care. The site offers an easy way to quote and link to a source that he didn’t bother using and I have zero interest in following up. He’s fixated.

Neither do I dip my toes into threads with faux questions like “Does God have wings.”

Even my tastes are discriminating.

 

[Mr E]

You'll have to forgive my slow pace. This isn't a copy/paste version of something I read somewhere or something I've previously written before. This is bread fresh from the bakery and I'm delivering.

Another way to put it, is this life is not our sentence of death, as much as it is the evidence for it made manifest or presented: The charge, the evidence, judgement, and then sentencing.

As the tale unfolds, I hope you'll see that every human life comes as a life sentence, which begins at birth and ending at death-- and then the judgment based upon that life that was lived. Another chance to get it right-- it's a story of redemption and rescue from this plight and prison we find ourselves trapped in, held hostage, in captivity--- and the amazing acts of sacrifice and service to help us escape this peril and return to relationship with the Father.

The specific error you make in your above explanation, is that of assuming there is actually a timeline that exists in eternity. That is a condition of this fallen world, not of God. As for laboring six days, God did that. He labored, not us. Our labor...is in birth. Tilling the ground, is just the dirty part.

And the would-be "progression" is an illusion. No matter how you slice it or divide things up into days and weeks and years, it's an illusion, and simply a means of revealing what "is" in God. Being last to know does not prove things to be otherwise.

Scott-- maybe someday you'll realize your own errors and not focus so much on others. These thoughts of yours above-- and all your "Einstein" musings are silly things you've invented in your head, put on paper, and peddled to others. None of that makes them valid and in fact-- the oppose and counter scripture entirely. It's not me who divided things up into days and weeks and years, and it's not an illusion. You'll have to take up your case with scripture.

When your "revelations" counter scripture you should examine both.


Now, where was I?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

People often look back to the Genesis account as brought to us by Moses as the definitive tale of our origin.... Maybe some among us can accept the idea of a land before time-- a long earth history of geological turmoil and the age of dinosaurs perhaps-- roaming the earth, long before humans entered the scene. Think as you will-- and we can start right there, as many have before me-- Or we can go back further-- to a time before land. To the time of creation and before creation... to the time before that time Moses tells us that elohim created the heavens and the earth.

First, some mood music.


Don't lose your way
With each passing day
You've come so far
Don't throw it away
Live believing
Dreams are for weaving
Wonders are waiting to start

Live your story
Faith, hope and glory
Hold to the truth in your heart

If we hold on together
I know our dreams will never die
Dreams see us through to forever
Where clouds roll by
For you and I

Souls in the wind
Must learn how to mend
Seek out a star
Hold on to the end

Valley, mountain
There is a fountain
Washes our tears all away

Words are swaying
Someone is praying
Please let us come home to stay

If we hold on together
I know our dreams will never die
Dreams see us through to forever
Where clouds roll by
For you and I

When we are out there in the dark
We'll dream about the sun
In the dark, we'll feel the light
Warm our hearts, everyone

If we hold on together
I know our dreams will never die
Dreams see us through to forever
As high as souls can fly
The clouds roll by
For you and I

Jeremiah 4:21-23 How long must I see the flag And hear the sound of the trumpet? [22] “For My people are foolish, They do not know Me; They are foolish children And have no understanding. They are skillful at doing evil, But they do not know how to do good.” [23] I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness; And to the heavens, and they had no light.

You told me before how it’s all about the most beautiful love story ever told. I can consider “A time before Land” which (Imo)could be translated as “A Time before Christ”.

In my imagination I see it going something like this: Moses telling the story to those gathered around. “In the beginning…There was a great darkness over the Land. A void. An emptiness! A place where there was no man found. A place where John wept because there was no man worthy—“

A raised hand waving high, “Wait Moses! Who is John?”

“Slow down!” Moses staff comes down hard with a reverberating sound of anger. “you are getting ahead of it all. Let me tell it first! And God brought forth the Lights …the stars they are, to light the way. There are lesser and greater—“

“greater and lesser?! BUT Which is is the greatest among them there stars?!”

“Don’t sidetrack me kids!”

“Which was the greatest! Tell us! The Moon or the Sun?”

“God looked and ALL was VANITY! …God looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness; And to the heavens, and they had no light. They are skillful at doing evil, But they do not know how to do good.”

“Is this what happened long ago Moses? Tell us how God commanded, “Let there be Light!”

Moses leans closes, the vail over his face slipping, “I tell you, God said, Let there be Light and There was Light. And Gods Spirit moved over the waters and brought forth dry Land!”

“then or now! Moses tell us all there is to know great and wise one!”

“I knew man who was caught up to the third heaven …”

“Was this you or some other man????”

 

[Mr E]

Jeremiah 4:21-23 How long must I see the flag And hear the sound of the trumpet? [22] “For My people are foolish, They do not know Me; They are foolish children And have no understanding. They are skillful at doing evil, But they do not know how to do good.” [23] I looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness; And to the heavens, and they had no light.

You told me before how it’s all about the most beautiful love story ever told. I can consider “A time before Land” which (Imo)could be translated as “A Time before Christ”.

In my imagination I see it going something like this: Moses telling the story to those gathered around. “In the beginning…There was a great darkness over the Land. A void. An emptiness! A place where there was no man found. A place where John wept because there was no man worthy—“

A raised hand waving high, “Wait Moses! Who is John?”

“Slow down!” Moses staff comes down hard with a reverberating sound of anger. “you are getting ahead of it all. Let me tell it first! And God brought forth the Lights …the stars they are, to light the way. There are lesser and greater—“

“greater and lesser?! BUT Which is is the greatest among them there stars?!”

“Don’t sidetrack me kids!”

“Which was the greatest! Tell us! The Moon or the Sun?”

“God looked and ALL was VANITY! …God looked at the earth, and behold, it was a formless and desolate emptiness; And to the heavens, and they had no light. They are skillful at doing evil, But they do not know how to do good.”

“Is this what happened long ago Moses? Tell us how God commanded, “Let there be Light!”

Moses leans closes, the vail over his face slipping, “I tell you, God said, Let there be Light and There was Light. And Gods Spirit moved over the waters and brought forth dry Land!”

“then or now! Moses tell us all there is to know great and wise one!”

“I knew man who was caught up to the third heaven …”

“Was this you or some other man????”

Creative writing is an echo of a Creator. We are what we are because that's how we were built. We are sons and daughters of artists-- painters, sculptors, musicians, writers, inventors-- experimenters all. It began as the creative process and indeed a series of experiential discoveries---- and yes, it's hard not to skip ahead, but if you do you'll see that things went wrong.... so bad, that it all had to be wiped out in order to begin again. We might get to that- eventually, but for now we need to move in another direction.... back in time. Sorry @ScottA but time is a real thing and some things really did happen before others.


Edited to address---- I almost missed this in haste- but it's important.

You told me before how it’s all about the most beautiful love story ever told. I can consider “A time before Land” which (Imo)could be translated as “A Time before Christ”.

Oh it is the most beautiful love story. Beyond understanding to the point where all you can do is fall on your face in appreciation of what you see, knowing you only see in part. It's the time of Christ, going back to when he was anointed and tasked with a Herculean mission impossible (if you are willing to accept it) and sent out by the Father, knowing the cost. No greater love has any man.

 

[ScottA]

As the tale unfolds, I hope you'll see that every human life comes as a life sentence, which begins at birth and ending at death-- and then the judgment based upon that life that was lived. Another chance to get it right-- it's a story of redemption and rescue from this plight and prison we find ourselves trapped in, held hostage, in captivity--- and the amazing acts of sacrifice and service to help us escape this peril and return to relationship with the Father.

There are exceptions, but I get your point.

And I could further point out the error of "chance"...but I am not convinced it would be profitable at this time. Meanwhile, your heartfelt sentiments regarding the gospel, are more than sufficient.

Scott-- maybe someday you'll realize your own errors and not focus so much on others. These thoughts of yours above-- and all your "Einstein" musings are silly things you've invented in your head, put on paper, and peddled to others. None of that makes them valid and in fact-- the oppose and counter scripture entirely. It's not me who divided things up into days and weeks and years, and it's not an illusion. You'll have to take up your case with scripture.

When your "revelations" counter scripture you should examine both.

What is written of the errors of those sent by God--do you actually think any of them were without knowledge of their own errors and shortcomings? That's nonsense. Of course they did, as do I. But if I, by God, have been speaking from Him--my own errors are between Him and me. The message has nothing to do with the errors of those sent. On the contrary, it is a prequalification, that none should boast. If you think any sent by God have or do boast--you are looking at the man, not the message. Shame on you.

You saying "silly" and "musings", as if the unfolding of times and the affairs of men were random and subject to coincidence. They're not. But go ahead, continue on the predictable path of those who killed the prophets, crucified Christ, and that of the foretold scoffers. You've been expected, and are right on time. By chance? --No, not a chance.

 

[ScottA]

Sorry @ScottA but time is a real thing and some things really did happen before others.

All things are in God. Slice up that Rock. Go ahead. Which slice came into being first, and which one last?

But, no, time is an illusion of this world...even if some do not know it yet.

 

[Mr E]

There are exceptions, but I get your point.

And I could further point out the error of "chance"...but I am not convinced it would be profitable at this time. Meanwhile, your heartfelt sentiments regarding the gospel, are more than sufficient.


What is written of the errors of those sent by God--do you actually think any of them were without knowledge of their own errors and shortcomings? That's nonsense. Of course they did, as do I. But if I, by God, have been speaking from Him--my own errors are between Him and me. The message has nothing to do with the errors of those sent. On the contrary, it is a prequalification, that none should boast. If you think any sent by God have or do boast--you are looking at the man, not the message. Shame on you.

You saying "silly" and "musings", as if the unfolding of times and the affairs of men were random and subject to coincidence. They're not. But go ahead, continue on the predictable path of those who killed the prophets, crucified Christ, and that of the foretold scoffers. You've been expected, and are right on time. By chance? --No, not a chance.

Okie dokie. Start a Prophet's Only Club and sell jackets online. And have at 'er in your blog.

If self-agrandizement was a crown to put on-- you'd be the Wiz for sure.

Enjoy your cheeseburgers..... just not here. I'm not playing along with your fantasy.

 

[ScottA]

In my imagination I see it going something like this: Moses telling the story to those gathered around. “In the beginning…There was a great darkness over the Land. A void. An emptiness! A place where there was no man found. A place where John wept because there was no man worthy—“

If I were to indulge such imagination, it would go something like this:

Moses going out into the darkness outside the camp after all the plagues upon Egypt and crossing the Red Sea realizing that God is a god of miracles, falling to his knees weeping and crying out, saying, "Oh God, is this just the beginning? How shall I continue--what shall I tell the people?"​

​

God answering, "I will tell you of the beginning. Write what I tell you, and that is what you shall tell the people. But fear not, for I will be with you to guide you."​

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If I were to indulge such imagination, it would go something like this:

Moses going out into the darkness outside the camp after all the plagues upon Egypt and crossing the Red Sea realizing that God is a god of miracles, falling to his knees weeping and crying out, saying, "Oh God, is this just the beginning? How shall I continue--what shall I tell the people?"​

​

God answering, "I will tell you of the beginning. Write what I tell you, and that is what you shall tell the people. But fear not, for I will be with you to guide you."​

This is what is crazy to me. I hated the bitter water curse in Numbers …the spirit of Jealousy…
Numbers 5:29 This is the law of jealousies

Now it’s one of my favorite passages. How is it possible Moses wrote of “the bondwoman” and “the freewoman” (who bears seed)long before Romans 7:1-4 aligns with Numbers 5 concerning “women”? Know you not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he lives? [2] For the woman which has an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he lives; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [3] So then if, while her husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law(of Jealousy); so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4] Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

What’s the point? The point is …I don’t know who is right about time but there is something supernatural about the word. How is that possible? Moses. Numbers. Romans. It all tells a story for sure!

 

[Mr E]

This is what is crazy to me. I hated the bitter water curse in Numbers …the spirit of Jealousy…
Numbers 5:29 This is the law of jealousies

Now it’s one of my favorite passages. How is it possible Moses wrote of “the bondwoman” and “the freewoman” (who bears seed)long before Romans 7:1-4 aligns with Numbers 5 concerning “women”? Know you not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he lives? [2] For the woman which has an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he lives; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [3] So then if, while her husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law(of Jealousy); so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4] Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

What’s the point? The point is …I don’t know who is right about time but there is something supernatural about the word. How is that possible? Moses. Numbers. Romans. It all tells a story for sure!

It's even more fantastic than that. The name Mary- means bitter water. And because she was married and instantly preggers even before she moved in with her husband, well-- people talk. The rumors around town are that.... you know..... she was pregnant, before they got married. Numbers 5:11 describes the Joseph situation to a "T" and had he not believed the angel who came to him in a dream, he would have subjected Mary to all of this including drinking the priest's bitter water (Plan B) concoction. It was State-sanctioned abortion. Instead, he believed the messenger.

And thank God he did. Through their son, the law given by Moses as recorded in Numbers and referenced by Paul in Romans was killed. It became dead, freeing all men and women to become the bride of Christ-- to remarry, because the one they were previously joined with (the law) was dead.

*Yes, it's supernatural. It's natural on this earthly plane and supernatural in the heavenly realm. Everything below is a likeness of those things above. As an aside... It's very easy to say things like "time doesn't exist." It's meaningless..... but those who say things like that always miss the bus.

I'm going to continue the story...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I'm going to continue the story...

I’m going to have coffee since I’m not fully awake yet .

 

[O'Darby]

I will say this, strictly FWIW: If there is one doctrine that resolves virtually all problematical analytical issues with mainstream Christianity, it is - yep - reincarnation. When one considers that reincarnation is one of the oldest and most widespread religious beliefs (uncannily so) and is supported by a fairly compelling body of evidence, I'm always surprised that most Christians are foaming-at-the-mouth opposed to the notion (almost entirely on the basis of Hebrews 9:27).

My informed guess is that some form of reincarnation (which may be nothing like we typically picture, with a linear succession of separate lifetimes) together with a very different notion of time than we typically have (again, a linear succession of moments) is probably close to The Answer. It may even mesh with Hebrews 9:27!

Do I insist this is what others must or should believe? Certainly not. But it does resolve the problematical analytical issues with mainstream Christianity that I find impossible to otherwise resolve in my own mind.

I can't remember the context, but in one of the forms of communication with the Other Side the questioners were complaining that all the Other Side ever seems to deliver are generic platitudes. They asked for something concrete, something real. They got only two words: RETHINK TIME. That has always stuck with me.

 

[Mr E]

A recap.... In our last episode we left off here>> Recap

Everything I've talked about so far is contained within that story from Moses as told in Genesis chapter one. It ends as it began--

"In the beginning the elohim created the heavens and the earth."

The elohim created humankind in his own image,
in the image of the elohim he created them,
male and female he created them.

The elohim created. It's specific. It's clear. It's supernatural. It's real. --It's how this plane and humankind came to be. The divine children of God created things above and they materialized below-- as images, or likenesses, or representations of those things above. And elsewhere in scripture these elohim (spirits) might be called angels, or Holy ones, or something similar-- it's all the same though "angel" is not a kind of elohim-- it's simply a description of a task an elohim is doing and a role they are playing... "messenger" is more of a job description.

For emphasis I'll repeat-- Moses could have used the word translated as LORD in our Bibles-- that would be specific to Yahweh-- the God of Israel- the Chief God, the Most High-- But he doesn't. He makes it clear that it's elohim (plural) that are doing the creating, including the creating of mankind-- male and female versions.

When you flip the page to Genesis chapter 2-- this is where Moses gets really specific. He first says that the elohim did all this work-- and then he drills down and tells us that among these elohim, there was one in particular-- that he references for the first time, by name-- and he tells us what this one particular elohim did in that creation effort.

This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created—when the LORD God made the earth and heavens.

He starts it as a new story within the story. He says-- I told you how the elohim together, created the world and everything in it. Now these are the things that Yahweh, the elohim did. And you can read all about it, in Gen 2. There's a twist.

Moses tells us that the elohim created mankind on Day 6. In this Gen 2 account he tells us that Yahweh made for himself a man on a day before any shrub of the field had yet grown on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted. That would have been on Day 3 according to Gen 1.

Take it as it is written. Yahweh made a man first, on Day 3 and later on Day 6-- the other elohim did likewise. Yahweh started a craze.


Rather than going forward-- we are going to go back in time. I want to look more closely at these heavenly beings-- these elohim. The idea that Yahweh made a man and breathed his spirit into it before anyone else is going to become important in the story.

 

[Mr E]

 

[Mr E]

For the moment-- let's leave it like this..... and in proper order. Yahweh created a man-- formed him from the soil and placed him in a garden to till the land and tend the garden..... and the land then produced vegetation. After doing all this, this Yahweh elohim determined that it wasn't good for the man to be alone and there was no suitable companion for him. So he caused the man to fall asleep, and while anesthetized, he did surgery-- and formed a woman using autograft.

Oh--- and the other elohim saw all this and copied it, making their own human likenesses in their own image-- male and female.

Everyone was doing it.... and said it was good. Well, yes........ it started that way.

 

[Mr E]

Stop me if you've heard this one.... And by all means, correct any errors as long as they aren't of the "time is an illusion" variety.

Adam and Eve had some kids, and so did the other elohim/offspring. It was a goal, even a demand- to be fruitful and multiply. To fill the earth and subdue it.

Wups. Genesis chapter three.

Famously known as the account detailing 'The Fall of Man' there is more to this story as well. Important background to consider.

Where did that talking snake come from? It's one of those garden snakes, yes-- and more than that-- in the spiritual realm, where the real garden of God exists-- it, like everyone else we've talked about in this story so far-- is one of the elohim.

 

[Mr E]

FINALLY, I get around to the story I first set out to tell and earlier alluded to. We know what this snake in the grass is, but WHO is it?

It's one of the elohim-- heavenly beings, but which one specifically? Moses called attention to Yahweh by name, but what do we know of this one? To examine these questions, we have to step away from Genesis as a sole source and consider things seen by others. It's tempting to jump straight to Ezekiel 28-- where the prophet directly points to an elohim who was "in the garden of Eden" and that Ezekiel identifies as "the anointed guardian cherub."

We could look at that, but doing so we should acknowledge that Ezekiel, in his time- had available all the books of Moses as a source. He was a prophet who appeared on scene centuries after Moses, and the things he saw he recognized as physical manifestations (occurrences) of spiritual realities. He recognized that the spirit (elohim) in this King of Tyre, was the same as that elohim who was in the garden-- this snake.

While Moses was a source for Ezekiel, Ezekiel was not a source for Moses. Who were the prophets before Moses?

There was Abraham, of course-- and you could certainly count Issac and the dreamer Jacob as those who communed and spoke with God, and without a single doubt, there was that grand dreamer of dreams-- Joseph. But long before any of those, there was Noah and before him-- there was Enoch.

 

[Mr E]

Enoch was a source for Moses, but Moses was not a source for Enoch.

Enoch tells you of his grand adventures in spirit.... and all the things he was shown by the elohim. How he, in spirit-- saw God face to face and conversed with Him, not as a man-- but recognizing that as a man, he had a spiritual counterpart. A higher- him.

He explained it to his fellow men like this>>>

You, my children, you see my face, a human being created just like yourselves; I am one who has seen the face of the Lord, like iron made burning hot by a fire, emitting sparks. For you gaze into my eyes, a human being created just like yourselves; but I have gazed into the eyes of the Lord, like the rays of the shining sun and terrifying the eyes of a human being. You, my children, you see my right hand beckoning you, a human being created identical to yourselves; but I have seen the right hand of the Lord, beckoning me, who fills heaven. You see the extent of my body, the same as your own; but I have seen the extent of the Lord, without measure and without analogy, who has no end.

This is what it means to be a prophet. To discover that higher, spiritual version of yourself-- that see things more clearly than we do. While the “heavenly version” of Enoch is installed in heaven his “earthly version” is dispatched by God to the lower realm with the mission to deliver the handwriting made by the one who was translated to heaven.

God in heaven, instructs him like this>>>

And now, Enoch, whatever I have explained to you, and whatever you have seen in heavens, and whatever you have seen on earth, and whatever I have written in the books - by my supreme wisdom I have contrived it all..... Apply your mind, Enoch, and acknowledge the One who is speaking to you. And you take the books which I have written.... And you go down onto the earth and tell your sons all that I have told you.... And deliver to them the books in your handwriting, and they will read them and know their Creator.... And distribute the books in your handwriting to your children and your children to their children; and the parents will read them from generation to generation.

The word of God to Enoch. This heavenly elohim Enoch becomes an angel/messenger to the Earth.

Moses' story comes later.