Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

[GracePeace]

I have no idea why you say I'm going back on my words. I speak the same truth every time so there's no need to go back and forth. You simply do not understand what I'm saying because you see the Scriptures different than I do. You're stuck on this 1 John 3:23-24 thinking that it means something that I believe it does not mean. So I can't help you.

To clarify, one example of abiding in Christ by obeying His commands would be when the Galatians received the Spirit after they heard the Gospel and believed it (Gal 3:1-3)--one of the commands is to "believe in the Name of God's Son". The issue is you deny the second part of that command, "love one another". That's all. Not difficult. You remain in Him by keeping those two commands. If not, if you break either of those commands, you're guilty of "idolatry" (1 Jn 5:21), and by following those idols, you are drawn away from abiding in Him (Gal 1:6; 1 Jn 2:28), "away from the living God" (Heb 3).

 

[GracePeace]

It's not the Scripture you're stuck on. It's you religion your stuck on. And why do you keep saying I'm changing my mind or changing my words?

So, you're saying you agree with those words, but you don't agree with how I'm interpreting them?

 

[GracePeace]

And why do you keep saying I'm changing my mind or changing my words?

I can't be asked to continually repost your words.

Rather, why did you change your words?

 

[GracePeace]

You're stuck on this 1 John 3:23-24

It's not the Scripture you're stuck on.

Oops, you said I was stuck on 1 John 3:23,24, then, afterward, you said I'm not stuck on Scripture.
You can't seem to keep your words straight.

 

[Peterlag]

Oops, you said I was stuck on 1 John 3:23,24, then, afterward, you said I'm not stuck on Scripture.
You can't seem to keep your words straight.

Oh I see you're playing little word games. Again, it's not the Scripture we are talking about even though you keep saying we are. It's your understanding of that Scripture. When I said your stuck on 1 John. I meant your understanding of 1 John. Since you are playing little word games I'm going to exit this for tonight.

 

[GracePeace]

Oh I see you're playing little word games. Again, it's not the Scripture we are talking about even though you keep saying we are. It's your understanding of that Scripture. When I said your stuck on 1 John. I meant your understanding of 1 John. Since you are playing little word games I'm going to exit this for tonight.

If by "word games" you mean, "You actually take what I say seriously," yeah, reading your words and taking you at your word is a "word game". When you change your words, it's confusing.

So, OK, you agree with 1 John 3:23,24, you just don't agree with what you think my understanding of it is.

What is your understanding of 1 John 3:23,24?
That is probably a better question.
If my understanding of it is "flawed", then tell me the "correct" understanding of it that ostensibly debunks my understanding of it.

 

[mailmandan]

Again, according to you, then, we would have to read the immorality and idolatry mentioned in 1 Co 10 as having no effect upon salvation, but we read in 1 Co 6 that the immoral and idolatrous have no inheritance in God's Kingdom, so, no, that isn't a sound exegesis.
Also, the "wreath' Paul wanted to win is a "crown" that is "imperishable"--the "crown of life", without which, you're dead, so, yes, it is an issue of eternal life. Death first came through sin. Righteousness leads to life. This is why the crown of life is also called the crown of righteousness. Righteousness results in life. Righteousness is an issue of eternal life, and that is precisely the topic Paul is touching on (his making his body into his slave--otherwise your body makes you into its slave, which is called "sin", so the discussion is about righteousness).

Nothing of what you say makes any sense.

You need to realize that in this very large group of Hebrews that God delivered out of Egypt and not all of them were genuine believers. Hence, later destroyed those who did not believe, so of course immorality and idolatry would have been a manifestation of their unbelief. This is not talking about the righteous falling into immorality and idolatry and losing their salvation. That is your eisegesis.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is describing the sinful lifestyles of the unrighteous. In Galatians 5:19-21, these are the same unrighteous people who practice such sins. No one who is born of God practices sin (1 John 3:9) so these are not genuine believers who lost their salvation.

The righteousness you are talking about is 'self-righteousness' which is in contradiction with (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

There are multiple crowns in scripture which are imperishable.

1. The imperishable crown
2. The crown of rejoicing
3. The crown of righteousness
4. The crown of glory
5. The crown of life

Do you believe that all of these crowns are synonymous with receiving eternal life and all believers will receive them? In Revelation 19 we read about the coming of Christ and in verse 12, we read - His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns... So, what do those crowns represent? Are they all synonymous with receiving eternal life as well? Scripture cannot contradict itself. Paul is on record all throughout the New Testament stating that salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). It would make no sense for him to be saying we work hard for and earn eternal life in a race just like we would work hard for and earn a gold medal in an Olympic race when salvation is a free gift that is not based on works.

Nothing of what you say makes any sense.

In 1 Corinthians 9:27, Paul is talking about being disqualified for the prize (NIV) and not disqualified for the gift of eternal life. In context, Paul has been discussing preaching the gospel. In verse 18 he says, "What is my reward, then?" In verses 24-27 he illustrates this thought of his reward by the picture of a race run for the prize. Salvation is a gift that we receive by grace through faith, (Ephesians 2:8,9) and not a prize that we race for, win and earn.

Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That does not sound like a free gift to me. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved.

1 Corinthians 9:24 - "Do you not know that those who run in a race ALL run, but ONLY ONE receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it." In an Olympic race, all runners run but only one receives the gold medal. So, what happens to the runners that receive the silver medal or bronze medal or finish the race with no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or for the prize? Everyone who falls short of winning a gold medal is not disqualified from the Olympics.

Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. (2 Timothy 4:8) Do you believe that the other 4 crowns were laid up for Paul as well?

 

[mailmandan]

Paul often refers to faith as a race. If Paul is "disqualified" from the "race" of faith, it means he's in "unbelief", and he's "cut off" (Ro 11:17-23)!

More eisegesis on your part. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) In a race you run in such a way to win a prize and salvation is described as a gift, not a prize. (Romans 5:15,16,18; Ephesians 2:8) 1 Corinthians 9:27 says "disqualified for the prize" and not disqualified from the race of faith. Nowhere is the word "unbelief" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 9:24-27.

In regard to Romans 11:17-23, the Israelites (Jews) were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.

Professing Christians, who are Gentiles, are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious because they were never truly saved to begin with, even though they were among genuine believers. (1 John 2:19)

 

[MatthewG]

For instance, someone actually boasted that they and their like-minded friends here all relished the fact that they made me upset because of their disorderliness and destruction of my thread. They did not treat me with love, they loved harming me, contrary to God's command (1 Jn 3:23). They love evil. It's not surprising, since they don't hold to God's Word, whereby He sanctifies us (John 17:17), so, of course they're going to behave wickedly to the degree they reject God's Word.

I guess it's just surprising to me that people who hate me so much could actually be so useful to me, so I noted it. LOL

Okay.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes I preach walking in faith, just as James said "Abraham was justified by works [of faith]"--just as Paul says the believer who doesn't walk in faith, but does what he doubts, is "condemned" because Gods righteousness is only revealed "from faith to faith" (Ro 1:5,16,17, 14:5,23).

You turn everything into 'works salvation' and 'losing salvation.' Brings back painful memories for me of how miserable I was when I believed that as well, prior to my conversion while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago.

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In regard to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) not faith "and" obedience/works.

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who (works hard enough for and earns it? NO) believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. (Also see 1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

In regard to Romans 14:23, being uncertain about eating a particular thing yet eating it anyway is not the unpardonable sin. That is ludicrous and is not what Paul meant by condemned here. Noticed that in multiple translations, verse 22 says "condemn himself, self-condemnation, judging himself, passing judgment on himself" etc.. so condemned in that sense but not condemned in hell.

Some people tend to get carried away with certain obscure passages of scripture. Scripture must harmonize with scripture. Jesus clearly drew the line in the sand on condemnation in John 3:18. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Behold]

No he did not take the cup of wrath.

God's wrath against sin was poured out on Jesus.
Christ did suffer this wrath on Earth, so that the born again dont have to suffer it, after they die.

 

[Behold]

So... just to clarify, so we don't get lost, the issue was that people can be drawn away from abiding in Christ by "idolatry"

The spirit in a Believer is "born again" as "One with God" "in Christ".

That is eternal..

But what can become confused and faith ruined is....related to losing the TRUTH that is... "Christ KEEPS you SAVED, exactly like He saved you"..

So, the born again, always ABIDE, in Christ, as they are joined to Him, Spiritually.
THe born again, are always "the Temple of the Holy Spirit".

But their understanding of Salvation, can become lost, ruined, confused.. and once that happens, they start talking about trying to maintain relationship with God by SELF Effort.

= That's Broken faith.

= Legalism.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's not the words that need to be changed. It's your understanding of them that needs to be changed. Your way would mean we win God's heart through works. Right back to the Law.

Amen, Like the pharisee pumping his chest. saying thank God I am not like the inner (literally looking to God telling him how great he is)

The tax collector went home justified..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I do not agree. Those in Christ abide because they already have the spirit. Nobody can try to be good and get the spirit.

Amen, We abide after we have been attached to produce fruit, not to stay saved

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have no idea why you say I'm going back on my words. I speak the same truth every time so there's no need to go back and forth. You simply do not understand what I'm saying because you see the Scriptures different than I do. You're stuck on this 1 John 3:23-24 thinking that it means something that I believe it does not mean. So I can't help you.

here we go again.. Same thing he does to everyone.. its sad

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh I see you're playing little word games. Again, it's not the Scripture we are talking about even though you keep saying we are. It's your understanding of that Scripture. When I said your stuck on 1 John. I meant your understanding of 1 John. Since you are playing little word games I'm going to exit this for tonight.

lol..

same old song and dance..

see its not just me who sees this

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You need to realize that in this very large group of Hebrews that God delivered out of Egypt and not all of them were genuine believers. Hence, later destroyed those who did not believe, so of course immorality and idolatry would have been a manifestation of their unbelief. This is not talking about the righteous falling into immorality and idolatry and losing their salvation. That is your eisegesis.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is describing the sinful lifestyles of the unrighteous. In Galatians 5:19-21, these are the same unrighteous people who practice such sins. No one who is born of God practices sin (1 John 3:9) so these are not genuine believers who lost their salvation.

The righteousness you are talking about is 'self-righteousness' which is in contradiction with (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

There are multiple crowns in scripture which are imperishable.

1. The imperishable crown
2. The crown of rejoicing
3. The crown of righteousness
4. The crown of glory
5. The crown of life

Do you believe that all of these crowns are synonymous with receiving eternal life and all believers will receive them? In Revelation 19 we read about the coming of Christ and in verse 12, we read - His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns... So, what do those crowns represent? Are they all synonymous with receiving eternal life as well? Scripture cannot contradict itself. Paul is on record all throughout the New Testament stating that salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). It would make no sense for him to be saying we work hard for and earn eternal life in a race just like we would work hard for and earn a gold medal in an Olympic race when salvation is a free gift that is not based on works.

Nothing of what you say makes any sense.

In 1 Corinthians 9:27, Paul is talking about being disqualified for the prize (NIV) and not disqualified for the gift of eternal life. In context, Paul has been discussing preaching the gospel. In verse 18 he says, "What is my reward, then?" In verses 24-27 he illustrates this thought of his reward by the picture of a race run for the prize. Salvation is a gift that we receive by grace through faith, (Ephesians 2:8,9) and not a prize that we race for, win and earn.

Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That does not sound like a free gift to me. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved.

1 Corinthians 9:24 - "Do you not know that those who run in a race ALL run, but ONLY ONE receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it." In an Olympic race, all runners run but only one receives the gold medal. So, what happens to the runners that receive the silver medal or bronze medal or finish the race with no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or for the prize? Everyone who falls short of winning a gold medal is not disqualified from the Olympics.

Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. (2 Timothy 4:8) Do you believe that the other 4 crowns were laid up for Paul as well?

Amen,

Again it goes to fruit bearing or works.

We do works BECAUSE we are saved, by abiding ion the vine, Not to stay saved..

 

[MatthewG]

God's wrath against sin was poured out on Jesus.
Christ did suffer this wrath on Earth, so that the born again dont have to suffer it, after they die.

That is your conjecture. I disagree with you. what reason did Yahava have to be angry at his son? Sin? Jesus never sinned. The wrath of God was poured out on Godd chosen people who openly killed his son. That’s where the wrath was poured out. However if you would like to disagree by all means.

“While he was clinging to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them at the portico named Solomon’s, completely astonished. But when Peter saw this, he replied to the people, “Men of Israel, why are you amazed at this, or why are you staring at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him walk? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His Servant Jesus, the one whom you handed over and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. But you disowned the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, but put to death the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3‬:‭11‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Acts 3:15 but put to death the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

but put to death the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses.

bible.com

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is your conjecture. I disagree with you. what reason did Yahava have to be angry at his son? Sin? Jesus never sinned. The wrath of God was poured out on Godd chosen people who openly killed his son. That’s where the wrath was poured out. However if you would like to disagree by all means.

“While he was clinging to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them at the portico named Solomon’s, completely astonished. But when Peter saw this, he replied to the people, “Men of Israel, why are you amazed at this, or why are you staring at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him walk? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His Servant Jesus, the one whom you handed over and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. But you disowned the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, but put to death the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3‬:‭11‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Acts 3:15 but put to death the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

but put to death the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses.

bible.com

He was not angry at his son..

He put his wrath that we deserve on his son. so we could be saved.

its Called the love of God

 

[amigo de christo]

Without being Born Again.... we wouldn’t know how to abide in him.

It’s the Holy Spirit who teaches us and shows us how to abide in him.

I have only just been shown by God, through the Spirit, how to abide in him and it’s not by my works....it’s by the Holy Spirit....,I can’t do a thing without him......he has brought me to a place of full surrender.

I can’t go my way anymore.....he’s worked a miracle in me....it’s HIS way all the way!!!

Hallelujah....and keep me on your path Lord.....no more do I ever want to stray.....

JOHN gives us the answer . IF that which ye have heard in the Beginning shall remain in you ,
THEN ye shall continue in the SON . THE GOSPEL . yet many are taking off after another all inclusive gospel
they do not remain in the orginal gospel , they were not OF US . The all inclusive false love gospel
that accepts certain sins and many paths to GOD . IS A LIE FROM THE SERPENT .
IF that which ye have heard from THE BEGINNING shall remain in you , YOU SHALL CONTINUE IN THE SON and IN THE FATHER .
So if i ever hear once that all inclusive false love go spell from hell , ITS GONNA BE REBUKED MASSIVE .
so allow me some parting words . JESUS NEVER said unbeiving jews were TRULY OF GOD
so why then are folks buying into the lie of the abraham peace accords and claim musims and other religons
know God and have their own path to HIM . ITS A LIE and IT AINT THE GOSPEL .
ITS THE GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST WE MUST CONTINUE TO BELIEVE . but many who now claim HIS NAME
believe in this other fake love universal broad way to GOD LIE from the dragon . NOT THIS LAMB .
NOR SHOULD ANY LAMB . they came out from amongst us cause they were NEVER OF US .
THIS IS the WORKING OF THE SPIRIT OF ANTI CHRIST who has come to lead the world and religoins to JOIN AS ONE
under THE BEAST and to come full force against the TRUE CHRIST and the lambs .