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Dave L

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The Ten Commandments are the word of God written in stone and paced in the Ark of the Covenant. The Word of God made flesh was paced in the Ark of the New Covenant. The Rod of Aaron was paced in the Ark of the Covenant, foreshadowing Jesus, the High Priest, which was paced in the Ark of the New Covenant. Manna was placed in the Ark of the Covenant, foreshadowing Jesus, the Bread of Life, which was paced in the Ark of the New Covenant.

foreshadows>
77d948e3c5d95b6972b977e1a3b3cf28.jpg


In order to deny Mary as Ark of the New Covenant, you have to deny the foreshadowing contents of the Ark of the Old Covenant. They were not "replaced", they went from physical realities to fleshly realities, and later, to heavenly realities.
Nice sentiments, but you make too much out of it. Jeremiah says the New Covenant replaced the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant).
 

epostle

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Addressing the OP only. having not read all of the posts, and maybe I have posted here, not sure. but it seems there is a question or concern about water baptism, in particular in relation to salvation. point blank "JESUS SAVES".

The bible is Clear. John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments". and one of his command is to be baptized,
Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen".

now some say this was commanded of his chosen apostles ONLY, and now they are died. ok, if that's true, why was Ananias of Damascus baptizing? for he baptized Saul, now Paul, who was coming to Damascus to imprison those who believed in Christ, the Lord. where was he when the Lord Jesus gave the command to his chosen only apostles in Matthew 28:18-20?

now Peter was there and he Baptized with water. but only the Christ can baptized with the Spirit.

but you answered your own question in your OP. listen,

and if they would have not went into the ark they would have drowned in the water.
the answer is "obedience". if they would have never submitted themselves to the Command to Go into the ark, they would have perish. for the water baptism come from the Spirit himself, God Almighty, supportive scripture,
Matthew 21:23 "And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
Matthew 21:24 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
Matthew 21:25 "The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
Matthew 21:26 "But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
Matthew 21:27 "And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things".

that's my same question Today, "If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?"

BELIEVE? yes, scripture, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned".

Notice the belif is "First", and then "Baptized". hence the Preaching and the teaching of the Gospel is so important in his command. First teach, then they believe, for how can you believe if you have not Heard, and how can you hear without a preacher.
scripture, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned".

everybody who the gospel is preached to don't believe right away, and that's one of the biggest problem, which I believe, in the churches today, many really don't believe, either fully or correctly. hence the command to preach and to "TEACH". as like the apostle Paul, same to me, "DON'T HOLD ME TO THIS, I AM SPEAKING, BUT BY PERMISSION IN HOPES IT HELPS SOMEONE". yes, they was baptized, and was excited to do it. ,(NO TO PUT ANYONE DOWN), for no one knows anyone's "HEART". but let me clear this up, and it may help someone struggling with "re-baptism"

I remember when I was baptized at a young age. yes, I believed in God, because I had hear about God, went to church every sunday, because my parents commanded me to go, and I had no choice in the matter, (which I'm glad of). and that Good conscience toward God did not come, or was relized untill I was in my early adult life. then I was conscience toward God. yet I was water baptized at an early age, because I believed in my Parents who was in charge of my Life until they gave me back to God. as my Parents was in obedience unto God, me also by or Through my Parents, was I obedien unto God. yes, I struggled with should I get re-baptized, until the Lord revealed this to me. he said, "obedience" is BETTER than "sacrifice". to be re-baptized now with a Good conscience toward God now would be only be a "sacrifice". hence the reason why the apostle Paul said, God sent me to preach the Gospel, and not to baptize. why? for one must first, (learn of him, hence the command to teach), then OBEY God. that's why Cornelius was BAPTIZED "After" Peter PREACHED the Gospel to him. so the Baptizm can occure before or after hearing and Understanding the Gospel, but the command is to "OBEY", which is better.

maybe this might helped someone.

PICJAG.
Good post. It's alarming the growing number of Protestants that don't regard baptism as a fundamental doctrine.
"...there are some serious disagreements in many particulars: especially on baptism, which is why I brought it up. If you deny that it is “fundamental” then I think you have serious biblical problems. If it is fundamental, then it is a fact that there are five competing schools in Protestantism, and the “perspicuity” of Scripture has never resolved that..."​
Protestant Unity on "Central" Doctrines? (Baptism as Test Case) [vs. Jerry Walls]
 
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epostle

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Nice sentiments, but you make too much out of it. Jeremiah says the New Covenant replaced the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant).
Jeremiah said no such thing. You are reading into a passage what isn't there. Making a new covenant does not automatically mean replacement, it means the old is fulfilled. What is hidden in the Old Covenant is revealed in the New, not replaced and rendered meaningless. Standard Bible Reading 101.
Most of the Old Testament foreshadows Jesus, it is not "replaced" by Jesus. You must have references that explain the meaning of typology in the OT, "New" does not mean "replace" and Jeremiah doesn't even suggest that.
 
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Dave L

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Jeremiah said no such thing. You are reading into a passage what isn't there. Making a new covenant does not automatically mean cancelation, it means the old is fulfilled. What is hidden in the Old Covenant is revealed in the New, not cancelled and rendered meaningless. Standard Bible Reading 101.
Most of the Old Testament foreshadows Jesus, it is not "replaced" by Jesus. You must have references that explain the meaning of typology in the OT, "New" does not mean "replace" and Jeremiah doesn't even suggest that.
Here it is in plain english;

““The day is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,” says the Lord. “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the Lord. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33) (NLT)
 

H. Richard

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Nice try but totally deceptive.

I notice you have selected passages and put your interpretation on them to prove your take on things and ignored ALL the other verses that talk about baptism.

The bible is the best commentary on the bible so until you have investigated every verse that mentions baptism and every verse that shows it happening as I have done, you are in no place to make an authoritative declaration on the subject.


I have given the scriptures in their context. It is the religious, and you, that take what is said in other contexts and try to show the scriptures I have given in context to be wrong. It is the religious, that in order to support their ideas, must make the scriptures argue against each other.
 

epostle

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Here it is in plain english;

““The day is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,” says the Lord. “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the Lord. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33) (NLT)
You are an unconscious victim of dichotomous thinking. The covenant the Israelites broke was at the Golden Calf incident. That's why God gave Moses the Ten Commandments. God made several "covenants", the first was in Genesis 3. Did the 10 Commandments "replace" the covenant the Israelites broke?
Dichotomous thinking means everything is either/or, black or white; if "A" is true, "B" must be false. This is a very faulty approach to reading scripture. Calvin is notorious for it. "both/and" is the Hebraic approach and Jesus applied it, not "either/or".
 
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Dave L

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You are an unconscious victim of dichotomous thinking. The covenant the Israelites broke was at the Golden Calf incident. That's why God gave Moses the Ten Commandments. God made several "covenants", the first was in Genesis 3. Did the 10 Commandments "replace" the covenant the Israelites broke?
Dichotomous thinking means everything is either/or, black or white; if "A" is true, "B" must be false. This is a very faulty approach to reading scripture. Calvin is notorious for it. "both/and" is the Hebraic approach and Jesus applied it, not "either/or".
If Jeremiah can't set you free, I don't suppose I can.
 

BreadOfLife

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There is no distinction between clergy and laity in scripture. All believers are priests.

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 2:5) (KJV 1900)
I have repeatedly destroyed this idiotic claim – just as I did in my LAST post, where I PROVED a clergy-laity distinction from a passage that YOU supplied (1 Pet. 5:1-3).

As for the priesthood of ALL believers – I destroyed that, too – TWICE.
Let’s make it an even THREE . . .

EVERY SINGLE OT Type has an NT Fulfillment – without exception.

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
1. Aaron, the High Priest
2. The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood
3. The rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
1. Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25),
2. The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
3. The general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).


Hopefully it stuck that time . . .
 
D

Dave L

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I have repeatedly destroyed this idiotic claim – just as I did in my LAST post, where I PROVED a clergy-laity distinction from a passage that YOU supplied (1 Pet. 5:1-3).

As for the priesthood of ALL believers – I destroyed that, too – TWICE.
Let’s make it an even THREE . . .

EVERY SINGLE OT Type has an NT Fulfillment – without exception.

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
1. Aaron, the High Priest
2. The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood
3. The rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
1. Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25),
2. The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
3. The general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).


Hopefully it stuck that time . . .
We are not under the Old Covenant. Believers in Christ are now the priesthood.
 

BreadOfLife

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We are not under the Old Covenant. Believers in Christ are now the priesthood.
Did you even READ what I posted??
Here is it again . . .

EVERY SINGLE
OT Type has an NT Fulfillment – without exception.

OT TYPE
In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
1. Aaron, the High Priest
2. The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood
3. The rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.


NT FULFILLMENT
In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
1. Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25),
2. The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
3. The general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).


There is STILL a Ministerial Priesthood in the New Covenant.
 
D

Dave L

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Did you even READ what I posted??
Here is it again . . .

EVERY SINGLE
OT Type has an NT Fulfillment – without exception.

OT TYPE
In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
1. Aaron, the High Priest
2. The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood
3. The rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.


NT FULFILLMENT
In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
1. Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25),
2. The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
3. The general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).


There is STILL a Ministerial Priesthood in the New Covenant.
There is no such thing in the NT. Priests are frauds without any scriptural support.
 

101G

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Here it is in plain english;

““The day is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,” says the Lord. “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the Lord. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33) (NLT)
I must agree with epostle
DAVE, get a KJV .. ok, because your NLT replaced "LAW" with "INSTRUCTIONS"

listen, Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people".

NOTICE IT SAID, "THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL", notice not the "tribes" of Israel. this is IMPORTANT.

see, dave the covenant of "GRACE" was made "before" the Law to the "house of Israel" was given. listen, Galatians 3:17 "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect".

see dave, you got the wrong covenant, the covenant of GRACE for ALL men was in effect before the LAW was even Given in the Covenant of the HOUSE of ISRAEL for all men.

see that Law which was given to the Nation of ISRAEL, for all men was for all men who are IN DISOBEDIENCE.
and all men, the HOUSE, (NATURAL SEED), who are not in Christ Jesus is subject to that LAW

1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.


see dave, that LAW, the Ten commandments is still in effect for the NATURAL seed of men who are not in Christ JESUS.

so the Law for the NATURAL man is still in effect.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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PS to understand the LAW for the NATURAL MAN/SEED need to read the Book of Roman, statrt at the 2nd chapter, it will give us a better understanding as to who the LAW is WRITTEN For.

PICJAG.
 

BreadOfLife

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There is no such thing in the NT. Priests are frauds without any scriptural support.
See+no+evil+hear+no+evil+speak+no+evil.jpg

url

No matter HOW many times you repeat this lie – it’ll still be a lie.
I have shown you verse after verse of Scriptural support for the ministerial priesthood, yet you refuse to acknowledge it.

Here are some more . . .
James 6:14-15

Is anyone among you sick? He should SUMMON THE PRESBYTERS (priests) of the church, and THEY should pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
The PRESBYTERS are to pray over the sick and anoint them – NOT the laity.

2 Cor. 5:18-20
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to US the message of reconciliation. So WE are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through US. WE implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”
Entrusting to “US” the message of reconciliation . . . “WE” are ambassadors for Christ . . . God is appealing though “US” . . . “WE” implore you on behalf of Christ . . .

2 Cor. 2:10
“Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence of Christ.”

The Greek word Paul uses here for “presence” is Prosopo, which means Person. He is telling the Corinthians that he forgave sins in the person of Christ. In Latin, this is called in persona Christi.
 
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Dave L

Guest
See+no+evil+hear+no+evil+speak+no+evil.jpg

url

No matter HOW many times you repeat this lie – it’ll still be a lie.
I have shown you verse after verse of Scriptural support for the ministerial priesthood, yet you refuse to acknowledge it.

Here are some more . . .
James 6:14-15

Is anyone among you sick? He should SUMMON THE PRESBYTERS (priests) of the church, and THEY should pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
The PRESBYTERS are to pray over the sick and anoint them – NOT the laity.

2 Cor. 5:18-20
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to US the message of reconciliation. So WE are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through US. WE implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”
Entrusting to “US” the message of reconciliation . . . “WE” are ambassadors for Christ . . . God is appealing though “US” . . . “WE” implore you on behalf of Christ . . .

2 Cor. 2:10
“Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence of Christ.”

The Greek word Paul uses here for “presence” is Prosopo, which means Person. He is telling the Corinthians that he forgave sins in the person of Christ. In Latin, this is called in persona Christi.
Produce New Covenant scripture saying otherwise.
 
D

Dave L

Guest
I must agree with epostle
DAVE, get a KJV .. ok, because your NLT replaced "LAW" with "INSTRUCTIONS"

listen, Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people".

NOTICE IT SAID, "THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL", notice not the "tribes" of Israel. this is IMPORTANT.

see, dave the covenant of "GRACE" was made "before" the Law to the "house of Israel" was given. listen, Galatians 3:17 "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect".

see dave, you got the wrong covenant, the covenant of GRACE for ALL men was in effect before the LAW was even Given in the Covenant of the HOUSE of ISRAEL for all men.

see that Law which was given to the Nation of ISRAEL, for all men was for all men who are IN DISOBEDIENCE.
and all men, the HOUSE, (NATURAL SEED), who are not in Christ Jesus is subject to that LAW

1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.


see dave, that LAW, the Ten commandments is still in effect for the NATURAL seed of men who are not in Christ JESUS.

so the Law for the NATURAL man is still in effect.

PICJAG.
The Ten Commandments were only for Israel.

““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

Addressed only to Israel; “I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” (Exodus 20:2–3) (KJV 1900)
 

BreadOfLife

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Produce New Covenant scripture saying otherwise.
Try posts 141, 181, 189, 209, 211, and 215, for starters.
ALL of them are LOADED with Scriptural support for a ministerial Priesthood.

Denial is NOT a valid argument - no matter how many times you do it . . .
 
D

Dave L

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Try posts 141, 181, 189, 209, 211, and 215, for starters.
ALL of them are LOADED with Scriptural support for a ministerial Priesthood.

Denial is NOT a valid argument - no matter how many times you do it . . .
You are using OT scriptures to prove a NT point which does violence to both.