ABOUT BAPTISM

[BreadOfLife]

Scripture supports the priesthood of all believers. It does not mention a distinction between clergy and laity.

This is the most ignorant thing you’ve said up to this point.
What do you mean Scripture doesn’t mention a distinction between clergy and laity??

What do you call THESE verses??

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

1 Cor. 12:28-31
And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

James 5:14
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

1 Tim. 2:3
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Acts 14:23
And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 6:3
Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.

Heb. 13:7
Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. Jeremiah says the New Covenant replaced them.

The Old Covenant was MUCH more than just the 10 Commandments.
WHERE do you get this idiotic information from??

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am not part of any movement or denomination.

Doesn't matter.
If you are a Trinitarian Christian and you're not Catholic or Orthodox - you are a Protestant. You're just a Lone Ranger Christian - which is UNBiblical..

NOTHING you can do about that . . .

 

[epostle]

You add to scripture if you cannot support your claims from scripture. Serious error.

A brief exegesis of the text is not adding to scripture, nor is it interpreting. You add to scripture with your false accusations.

The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. Jeremiah says the New Covenant replaced them.

Then quote Jeremiah and stop adding to scripture. The Ten Commandments are moral laws and binding on all the faithful for all time. (you ignore the 9th) The Mosaic LAW was fulfilled, not replaced.

 

[Dave L]

This is the most ignorant thing you’ve said up to this point.
What do you mean Scripture doesn’t mention a distinction between clergy and laity??

What do you call THESE verses??

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

1 Cor. 12:28-31
And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

James 5:14
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

1 Tim. 2:3
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Acts 14:23
And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 6:3
Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.

Heb. 13:7
Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith.

“Neither as being lords over God’s heritage [κλῆρος = clergy], but being ensamples to the flock.” (1 Peter 5:3) (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

A brief exegesis of the text is not adding to scripture, nor is it interpreting. You add to scripture with your false accusations.

Then quote Jeremiah and stop adding to scripture. The Ten Commandments are moral laws and binding on all the faithful for all time. (you ignore the 9th) The Mosaic LAW was fulfilled, not replaced.

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33) (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

The Old Covenant was MUCH more than just the 10 Commandments.
WHERE do you get this idiotic information from??

They conceal this type of information in books.

 

[Jay Ross]

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33) (KJV 1900)

From asking Jewish people their understanding of these verses, I hear that they understand it like this: -

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make like new a covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake."​

The reference to the covenant that Israel broke points specifically to the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations Covenant as found in Exodus 19 which they promptly broke within 40 days of agreeing to enter into this covenant.

With that being said, the Jeremiah passage above is telling us that God intends to remake the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations Covenant again with the House Israel and the House of Judah, but with a number of subtle minor changes in the redemption process in our near future.

Shalom

 

[BreadOfLife]

“Neither as being lords over God’s heritage [κλῆρος = clergy], but being ensamples to the flock.” (1 Peter 5:3) (KJV 1900)

You cherry-pick in utter ignorance of God’s word.
The word “Clergy” is NEVER used in this verse – ion English OR in Greek.

Here is it in CONTEXT:

1 Peter 5:1-3
The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.

They are told to:
1. FEED the flock
2. Be EXAMPLES for the flock
3. WATCHING OVER the flock.

There is ABSOLUTELY a distinction between the clergy and laity here.

 

[BreadOfLife]

They conceal this type of information in books.

WHO does??
Are you REALLY this dense - or is this just an act??

You don't have a CLUE about any of this . . .

 

[epostle]

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33) (KJV 1900)

It doesn't say anything about cancelling the Ten Commandments.

 

[Triumph1300]

"Elders" means "priest", as various translations affirm, as any Greek dictionary affirms. Anointing with oil is not the function of any layman, there is no precedent in scripture. "Any born again Christian should pray for others" is absolutely true, but that is not the focus of James 5.
When James says, " let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him," he is not giving "how to" instructions. He is saying let them do what they have been doing all along. And Who do you think taught them?

Oh, ok.
Next sunday I will tell the elders they have no business praying for the sick.

 

[epostle]

Oh, ok.
Next sunday I will tell the elders they have no business praying for the sick.

Catholics don't claim to have the exclusive market on praying for the sick. It's commendable that your elders do that.

 

[Dave L]

It doesn't say anything about cancelling the Ten Commandments.

First, the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. They carried them on stone tablets in the "Ark of the Covenant". So when Jeremiah says the New Covenant replaced the Old, the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant along with the peripheral laws they replaced.

 

[Dave L]

WHO does??
Are you REALLY this dense - or is this just an act??

You don't have a CLUE about any of this . . .

The info is there if you read books. Otherwise it remains concealed.

 

[Dave L]

You cherry-pick in utter ignorance of God’s word.
The word “Clergy” is NEVER used in this verse – ion English OR in Greek.

Here is it in CONTEXT:

1 Peter 5:1-3
The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.

They are told to:
1. FEED the flock
2. Be EXAMPLES for the flock
3. WATCHING OVER the flock.

There is ABSOLUTELY a distinction between the clergy and laity here.

There is no distinction between clergy and laity in scripture. All believers are priests.

“Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 2:5) (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

From asking Jewish people their understanding of these verses, I hear that they understand it like this: -

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make like new a covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake."​

The reference to the covenant that Israel broke points specifically to the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations Covenant as found in Exodus 19 which they promptly broke within 40 days of agreeing to enter into this covenant.

With that being said, the Jeremiah passage above is telling us that God intends to remake the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nations Covenant again with the House Israel and the House of Judah, but with a number of subtle minor changes in the redemption process in our near future.

Shalom

But, the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. They called it the "Ark of the Covenant" wherein the Ten Commandments were kept.

 

[marksman]

Only two things are under discussion, being born of the flesh and being born of the Spirit.

Nice try but totally deceptive.

I notice you have selected passages and put your interpretation on them to prove your take on things and ignored ALL the other verses that talk about baptism.

The bible is the best commentary on the bible so until you have investigated every verse that mentions baptism and every verse that shows it happening as I have done, you are in no place to make an authoritative declaration on the subject.

 

[101G]

If the people in the Ark, left the Ark, they would have drowned in the water. Therefore it is obvious that the water was not salvation.

Addressing the OP only. having not read all of the posts, and maybe I have posted here, not sure. but it seems there is a question or concern about water baptism, in particular in relation to salvation. point blank "JESUS SAVES".

The bible is Clear. John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments". and one of his command is to be baptized,
Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen".

now some say this was commanded of his chosen apostles ONLY, and now they are died. ok, if that's true, why was Ananias of Damascus baptizing? for he baptized Saul, now Paul, who was coming to Damascus to imprison those who believed in Christ, the Lord. where was he when the Lord Jesus gave the command to his chosen only apostles in Matthew 28:18-20?

now Peter was there and he Baptized with water. but only the Christ can baptized with the Spirit.

but you answered your own question in your OP. listen,

If the people in the Ark, left the Ark, they would have drowned in the water. Therefore it is obvious that the water was not salvation.

and if they would have not went into the ark they would have drowned in the water.
the answer is "obedience". if they would have never submitted themselves to the Command to Go into the ark, they would have perish. for the water baptism come from the Spirit himself, God Almighty, supportive scripture,
Matthew 21:23 "And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
Matthew 21:24 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
Matthew 21:25 "The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
Matthew 21:26 "But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
Matthew 21:27 "And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things".

that's my same question Today, "If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?"

BELIEVE? yes, scripture, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned".

Notice the belif is "First", and then "Baptized". hence the Preaching and the teaching of the Gospel is so important in his command. First teach, then they believe, for how can you believe if you have not Heard, and how can you hear without a preacher.
scripture, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned".

everybody who the gospel is preached to don't believe right away, and that's one of the biggest problem, which I believe, in the churches today, many really don't believe, either fully or correctly. hence the command to preach and to "TEACH". as like the apostle Paul, same to me, "DON'T HOLD ME TO THIS, I AM SPEAKING, BUT BY PERMISSION IN HOPES IT HELPS SOMEONE". yes, they was baptized, and was excited to do it. ,(NO TO PUT ANYONE DOWN), for no one knows anyone's "HEART". but let me clear this up, and it may help someone struggling with "re-baptism"

I remember when I was baptized at a young age. yes, I believed in God, because I had hear about God, went to church every sunday, because my parents commanded me to go, and I had no choice in the matter, (which I'm glad of). and that Good conscience toward God did not come, or was relized untill I was in my early adult life. then I was conscience toward God. yet I was water baptized at an early age, because I believed in my Parents who was in charge of my Life until they gave me back to God. as my Parents was in obedience unto God, me also by or Through my Parents, was I obedien unto God. yes, I struggled with should I get re-baptized, until the Lord revealed this to me. he said, "obedience" is BETTER than "sacrifice". to be re-baptized now with a Good conscience toward God now would be only be a "sacrifice". hence the reason why the apostle Paul said, God sent me to preach the Gospel, and not to baptize. why? for one must first, (learn of him, hence the command to teach), then OBEY God. that's why Cornelius was BAPTIZED "After" Peter PREACHED the Gospel to him. so the Baptizm can occure before or after hearing and Understanding the Gospel, but the command is to "OBEY", which is better.

maybe this might helped someone.

PICJAG.

 

[epostle]

First, the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. They carried them on stone tablets in the "Ark of the Covenant". So when Jeremiah says the New Covenant replaced the Old, the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant along with the peripheral laws they replaced.

The Ten Commandments are the word of God written in stone and paced in the Ark of the Covenant. The Word of God made flesh was paced in the Ark of the New Covenant. The Rod of Aaron was paced in the Ark of the Covenant, foreshadowing Jesus, the High Priest, which was paced in the Ark of the New Covenant. Manna was placed in the Ark of the Covenant, foreshadowing Jesus, the Bread of Life, which was paced in the Ark of the New Covenant.

foreshadows>

In order to deny Mary as Ark of the New Covenant, you have to deny the foreshadowing contents of the Ark of the Old Covenant. They were not "replaced", they went from physical realities to fleshly realities, and later, to heavenly realities.