Acts 21:4

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Hepzibah

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And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days who said to Paul through the Spirit that he should not go to Jerusalem.

So was this the Holy Spirit trying to get through to Paul who had his mind set that he would go to Jerusalem despite the prophesies about what would happen there? Or did Paul know that it was not the Holy Spirit but his followers not wanting him to be harmed? Discuss.
 
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Behold

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And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days who said to Paul through the Spirit that he should not go to Jerusalem.

So was this the Holy Spirit trying to get through to Paul who had his mind set that he would go to Jerusalem despite the prophesies about what would happen there? Or did Paul know that it was not the Holy Spirit but his followers not wanting him to be harmed? Discuss.

Paul knew what He was doing..
He went there with purpose.

It was an "Older" and "tired of this world" Paul, who had finished His course, and wanted to go to His Lord.

They later cut off His head, and i would say that He was LOUDLY rejoicing in the Lord, as He was putting His head on the chopping block, as He was about to be with His SAVIOR.

And i would say, that He gave the Axe-man, "The Gospel of the Grace of God", and all who were there heard it also.

Isn't that the way to die?
Praising Jesus and Sharing Jesus on The Cross. = right until your last Breath.... ????

What a Christian.
The Greatest who ever lived.

1 Corinthians 11:1
 

Behold

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So, @Behold, are you saying that Paul ignored what God was saying to him, not to go?

Paul knew already what it meant for Him to go.

He was not disobeying.....he was choosing his end that was designated.

Watch..

"""I only KNOW..... that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me.""""


“Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again"""
 

Hepzibah

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But @Behold this was an imperative:

And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days who said to Paul through the Spirit that he should not go to Jerusalem.

The others were prophesies.
 

Behold

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But @Behold this was an imperative:

And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days who said to Paul through the Spirit that he should not go to Jerusalem.

The others were prophesies.

"""I only KNOW..... that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me.""""

@Hepzibah

Notice...."the Holy Spirit warns me'..... "That in EVERY CITY"...... = prison and hardship.

Not just Jerusalem.

But in this case, he was going to his death, knowingly.

Jesus did that also.

He made the CHOICE, to "not my will, but YOUR'S Father, that i will do"..

See that?
That is knowing what it means to make a Choice.

They both did.
They both died.
 
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Hepzibah

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"""I only KNOW..... that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me.""""
Of course. Nobody should know better than Paul that his life was on the line wherever he was. Satan would make sure of that.

But you are ignoring the fact that the Spirit told him not to go to Jerusalem and the Greek is a strong do not. . I think that he wanted to go because he had some money for the believers there and his emotions go the better of him so that his discernment was out.

The early church members had no fear of death whatsoever. In fact they were upset with anyone who tried to stop the martyrdom as this was classed as the pinnacle of the walk with Christ. So they were ready to lose each other at any time.

It also goes against how the early church fathers ran the church. Everything was by agreement, and going it alone, that is Paul against all of the brethren, would not occur well at least not till we had popes.
 

Behold

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But you are ignoring the fact that the Spirit told him not to go to Jerusalem and the Greek is a strong do not. .

I never over-ride or correct the Bible with the "Greek".
As this is always a Translators, re-assessment, and maybe they are not even saved.
And if they are.... its still THEIR commentary on the Greek.
So, i just avoid all that, and never teach the nonsense that the "original greek" is superior to a real Bible.

(There is no original greek) by the way.
There are about 30 "extant" Greek manuscripts... and about 3-4 of them are used to make "new" bibles.

Just avoid all that and Trust a real bible.
Not all of them are real.

Also, the correct understanding is....."urged Him not to go"... not "forbade".
 

Hepzibah

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The Greek does not change the meaning, it only gives emphasis. The HS would not forbid anyway. But the meaning is clear - it was not God's will that he went. Interested in what you call 'a real Bible'. Here is a piece I have just written about it.

Did God send Paul to Jerusalem?

Acts 21:4. “and finding disciples, we tarried there seven days who said to Paul through the Spirit that he should not go up to Jerusalem”.

God speaks to the Apostle Paul through believers, this time not only prophesying what will happen but giving an imperative command that he is not to go. The Greek means ‘not to set foot in’.

Commentators are faced with a dilemma, either Paul knew it was God’s will to go, or he was defying God and going anyway. The first requires eisegesis, the second is unacceptable. They do not consider a third option: that Paul may have lost his discernment on the issue due to an emotional response to the situation of his countrymen. He was taking money to them so their situation must have been dire. They are also not understanding how the Holy Spirit guides man. It has long been a criticism of academia, that they know the letter of the law but are not spiritually minded.

Perhaps they tarried the seven days due to lengthy discussions in the hopes of persuading Paul. It was not his wish that he was delayed in his intentions, the sign that he was not waiting on guidance moment by moment on the Holy Spirit, but presuming he knew the will of God, making a decision about where he was to go, rather than be content to be on the journey, in God’s will, waiting on the Lord as he did when he was stopped from going into Asia.

In Ephesus (Acts 18:20) he would not delay and said that he ‘must by all means, go to Jerusalem (Acts 18:21). He was determined but was he open to the leadings of the Holy Spirit, so that he could change his plans whenever the Holy Spirit would forbid action? It seems not for in Acts 20:16, it is recorded that Paul hasted.

Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus because he would not spend time in Asia, for he ‘hasted, if it were possible for him to be in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost’. Haste is actually the sign that the devil is at work, for to walk in the Light means that every step that is taken (as had Paul previous to this) must be in a measured, deliberate and careful manner, according to the minute by minute guidance we are afforded if we living in close communion with the Lord Jesus Christ and led by the Spirit. Confusion comes if we are not.

More than anything else, Satan would want to end Paul’s missionary journey’s and have him out of action, and this is what happened. Paul called the elders of Ephesus to him at Miletus and said his goodbyes to them, explaining that he was ‘bound in the S(s)pirit’ (Acts 20:22) Was he meaning he was bound in his own spirit, whereas in 21:4 it is the Holy Spirit who tells him he should not go to Jerusalem? The Holy Spirit does not bind a man and gives him the freedom to do as he wishes.

The final warning comes in Cesarea, this time not in words, which had so far failed to get through to Paul, but by way of a physical demonstration which convinced Paul’s travelling companions (21:12) so that they and Philip the evangelist, all men of God and led by the Spirit, united in discernment that God was commanding Paul not to go to Jerusalem and ‘besought him not to go’. Not just one person note, it was a company of brethren who Paul was ignoring.

The problem with commentators is, that they are not understanding how the very early church functioned, when they were of one accord. It is inconceivable that only Paul would be hearing the Spirit correctly, and all of the other Spirit filled disciples and apostles were wrong. The chances of that are very small. However we all make mistakes, even the apostles and Paul demonstrates this clearly in 23:3-5.

Christ has said ‘when two or more are gathered in my name’ or are in agreement ‘there I am in the midst of them’ which is sufficient warning to us whenever we decide to go it alone and step outside of the counsel of brethren who are walking in the Light.

His fellow disciples gave up at that point, realising that Paul’s mind was set and closed, a dangerous thing for a follower of Christ. They ceased (21:14) and there was nothing left for them to do but to put the matter in the hands of God. “The will of the Lord be done” and resigned themselves to accompanying Paul despite their understanding that it was not God’s will, and that their brother in Christ, whom they would not abandon, was in mortal danger.

It is true that God used God in ‘the prison years’ but we do not know how much was lost with the leading Apostle out of action and what the long term result in the church would be. God brings good out of our stupidity, but it does not say that everything we lost is restored.
 

Bob Estey

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And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days who said to Paul through the Spirit that he should not go to Jerusalem.

So was this the Holy Spirit trying to get through to Paul who had his mind set that he would go to Jerusalem despite the prophesies about what would happen there? Or did Paul know that it was not the Holy Spirit but his followers not wanting him to be harmed? Discuss.
My Bible (Revised Standard Version) says:

And having sought out the disciples, we stayed there for seven days. Through the Spirit they told Paul not to go on to Jerusalem.

It seems to me clear that it was the Lord's will he not go to Jerusalem.
 
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ElieG12

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Through the holy spirit, the prophets knew that Paul would suffer in Jerusalem (Acts 21:10-14), but the fear of the disciples and asking Paul not to go there was a personal matter, because knowing what would happen they thought that Paul should avoid it. Something similar happened with Peter when he asked Jesus not to let them kill him (Matt. 16:21-23).

Although the intentions of the brothers' request to Paul were good, it was not God's will for him not to go, but for him to get there and give a complete testimony not only in Jerusalem but even to other rulers, even as far as Rome (Acts 9:15,16; 19:21; 23:11).
 

Jim C

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Given that The Lord had rescued Paul from mortal danger in just about every city he visited, HS could have very well been informing Paul that if he ignored the warning then God would not rescue Paul this time.
 
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Cassandra

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Given that The Lord had rescued Paul from mortal danger in just about every city he visited, HS could have very well been informing Paul that if he ignored the warning then God would not rescue Paul this time.
Exactly!! This makes sense!! Thanks!