AD already fulfilled?

[theefaith]

Yes! Just before the Army of Rome came in the temple was being run over by the children of the devil or these fake Jews. These children desegregated everything that was holy and they set it on fire.
There really are fake Jews in this world, a lot of them are in the US Congress.

Why is that? Because the Pilgrims were the children of Israel.
Everyone should read "War of the Jews" by Flavius Josephus.

It's on the Internet.

the pilgrims? Really? Puritan rigorist fundamentalist Protestants were really the Jews?

 

[fellow]

the pilgrims? Really? Puritan rigorist fundamentalist Protestants were really the Jews?

NO, they were the children Israel.

The Jews were the children of Esau! Esaul married the daughters of Cain, who was of the devil.

 

[theefaith]

NO, they were the children Israel.

The Jews were the children of Esau! Esaul married the daughters of Cain, who was of the devil.

the Jews come from Judah one of the sons of Jacob

are the Mormons these children of Israel?

 

[Randy Kluth]

No, that was a type

Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

As the disciples were standing and commenting on the magnificence of the structures, Jesus told them that at His coming, after the wrath of God's anger was upon the earth, not one stone of these beautiful structures would be left standing one stone upon another.

Many so-called critics show their ignorance when they tell us that this event happened when The Roman General Titus came against Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and destroyed the city. However one of the points of interest of all tours to Jerusalem is the wailing wall. This is wall that stands as the only part of Jerusalem that was left of old Jerusalem, at it's destruction.

Jesus prophecy in verse two tells us that "there shall not one stone upon another," and that condition has not happened yet. All of the stones of the temple will be turned to dust, at that end of this earth age. Zechariah 14 gives us a profile of how Jerusalem will be, and the events that shall transpire at that time. When Satan has taken his seat in Jerusalem, fulfilling the role of the Antichrist.

Well, I'm not ignorant about this. I've been to the Wailing Wall--back in 1976. It is more like a retaining wall than a part of the temple. It may be part of the temple platform, the site upon which the temple was built. But it was *not* the temple, which is what Jesus said would be completely removed. Jesus never said the retaining wall, or the Wailing Wall, would be completely removed.

So you're wrong. The Olivet Discourse was absolutely about the annihilation of the temple in 70 AD, which is when it actually happened. Jesus said it would happen in "this generation," and not in some other generation. Some feel that Jesus was speaking of the generation in which Israel would be restored in the last days, when the "fig tree will blossom."

But that isn't what Jesus said. He said the early signs of the impending destruction of Jerusalem (in 70 AD) would show up in the generation of his Disciples, and would portend to show the arrival of Summer. However, instead of a harvest there would be destruction, a "false hope."

That's why Jesus warned of False Prophets and False Christs, because they would refuse to admit that this destruction was coming. The Early Church Fathers recognized that this is what the Olivet Discourse was speaking of because they described this as a judgment upon Israel for having rejected their Messiah.

There is no other way to read this. Jesus wasn't speaking in typology. He was speaking clearly of the imminent judgment of Israel in his own generation. And he said it would lead to an age-long Jewish Dispersion. That Dispersion began with the Romans.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Is the abomination of desolation fulfilled?

No. types have happened (like Antioches Epiphenes) but Jesus spoke of the abomination in the future. NO Roman general or emperor fulfilled the prophecy by standing in the holy place and the addition god gave Paul by declaring himself god.

 

[theefaith]

No. types have happened (like Antioches Epiphenes) but Jesus spoke of the abomination in the future. NO Roman general or emperor fulfilled the prophecy by standing in the holy place and the addition god gave Paul by declaring himself god.

lk 21: 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

fulfilled 70 ad

 

[Keraz]

There is no other way to read this. Jesus wasn't speaking in typology. He was speaking clearly of the imminent judgment of Israel in his own generation. And he said it would lead to an age-long Jewish Dispersion. That Dispersion began with the Romans.

But history shows there IS another way of understanding this prophecy.
When the 'fig tree buds', THEN the generation alive at that time, will see all the end time events. Matthew 24:32-33

Paul does prove this in his prophecy of 2 Thess 2:1-4
Before Jesus Returns, there will be a new Temple and a wicked man; the Adversary will sit in Gods Temple, claiming to be God.
The belief that this happened in 70 AD, is quite wrong and contrary to the historical record, as well as to scripture.

 

[Randy Kluth]

But history shows there IS another way of understanding this prophecy.
When the 'fig tree buds', THEN the generation alive at that time, will see all the end time events. Matthew 24:32-33

Paul does prove this in his prophecy of 2 Thess 2:1-4
Before Jesus Returns, there will be a new Temple and a wicked man; the Adversary will sit in Gods Temple, claiming to be God.
The belief that this happened in 70 AD, is quite wrong and contrary to the historical record, as well as to scripture.

Yes, I believe it would be wrong to believe that the Antichrist appeared in 70 AD, even though I never said that. I never even remotely said that!

There are, of course, other ways of reading the Olivet Discourse. I'm well aware of Hal Lindsay's way, which is extreme futurism. Modern futurists want *everything* in the Bible to be about the endtimes. If Jesus hadn't come yet, they would even think all prophecies of Christ's Coming had to do with the endtimes!

No, the Olivet Discourse is all about 70 AD. Jesus said so. That settles is for me. He said, "all these things will happen in this generation." He was not referring to the generation that would see Israel reborn as a state at the end of the age. Rather, he was speaking of *his own generation,* which indeed saw every stone taken down from the temple by the Romans. Easy interpretation for me.

 

[n2thelight]

Well, I'm not ignorant about this. I've been to the Wailing Wall--back in 1976. It is more like a retaining wall than a part of the temple. It may be part of the temple platform, the site upon which the temple was built. But it was *not* the temple, which is what Jesus said would be completely removed. Jesus never said the retaining wall, or the Wailing Wall, would be completely removed.

So you're wrong. The Olivet Discourse was absolutely about the annihilation of the temple in 70 AD, which is when it actually happened. Jesus said it would happen in "this generation," and not in some other generation. Some feel that Jesus was speaking of the generation in which Israel would be restored in the last days, when the "fig tree will blossom."

But that isn't what Jesus said. He said the early signs of the impending destruction of Jerusalem (in 70 AD) would show up in the generation of his Disciples, and would portend to show the arrival of Summer. However, instead of a harvest there would be destruction, a "false hope."

That's why Jesus warned of False Prophets and False Christs, because they would refuse to admit that this destruction was coming. The Early Church Fathers recognized that this is what the Olivet Discourse was speaking of because they described this as a judgment upon Israel for having rejected their Messiah.

There is no other way to read this. Jesus wasn't speaking in typology. He was speaking clearly of the imminent judgment of Israel in his own generation. And he said it would lead to an age-long Jewish Dispersion. That Dispersion began with the Romans.

Thinking you got the this generation shall not pass wrong . The Olivet Discourse was written to those of whom the end would ,DID THE END HAPPEN IN AD 70? No it didn't ,and that was the subject from the start, with this question

Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Wasn't a typo as you say ,rather

Ecclesiastes 1:9
"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."

Solomon, with the guidance of the Spirit of God, is telling you that those things that have happened before, will happen again. It is important that you understand this. There is no new idea or thing that can happen to man that has not already happened to man. Remember that "under the sun" in in reference to "this flesh body of man".

This point helps us understand the Word of God, and the types that the prophets of old give us in their writings. Paul told us in I Corinthians 10:11; "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

"Ends of the world", means the ends of this earth age, or dispensation where man lives in his flesh body. Paul told us that all those things that were written by the prophets of man's actions, and what happened to them when they either violated God's law, or kept God's law were examples to us, for there is no new thing that will happen to flesh man, that has not already happened to others in the past. We are to study God's Word, and by our understanding of His Word, we can have the peace of mind that comes with God's faithfulness to His Word.

There is nothing new under the sun, even to the point of what happens at the end of this earth age, is a copy of what happened at the end of the first earth age. God has detailed out for us in His Word all events that will take place, right up to His second coming at the sounding of the seventh and final trumpet. He has name the signs, and given us examples even of the one world system that is coming upon us now, and will rule the minds of all mankind very shortly, all that is, except God's elect who know the truths, and will not be deceived.

 

[Keraz]

Randyk, thanks for your clearly set out beliefs.
But doesn't it worry you that we are near to 2000 years from Jesus first Advent? All the Bible prophets tell about dramatic events before Jesus Returns. Thinking the OD and other prophesies of Jesus like: Matthew 24:21-22, has nothing to do with this time in world events, is 'head in the sand' attitude.
The rebirth of the Jewish State, is the marker for 'this generation', now the situation with Israel and all of the holy Land requires God's intervention to make things right. He will do it, as many prophesies describe. Zephaniah 1:18, Hosea 4:3, Joel 1:15-20, +

 

[Randy Kluth]

Thinking you got the this generation shall not pass wrong . The Olivet Discourse was written to those of whom the end would ,DID THE END HAPPEN IN AD 70? No it didn't ,and that was the subject from the start, with this question

Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Wasn't a typo as you say ,rather

Ecclesiastes 1:9
"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."

Solomon, with the guidance of the Spirit of God, is telling you that those things that have happened before, will happen again. It is important that you understand this. There is no new idea or thing that can happen to man that has not already happened to man. Remember that "under the sun" in in reference to "this flesh body of man".

This point helps us understand the Word of God, and the types that the prophets of old give us in their writings. Paul told us in I Corinthians 10:11; "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

"Ends of the world", means the ends of this earth age, or dispensation where man lives in his flesh body. Paul told us that all those things that were written by the prophets of man's actions, and what happened to them when they either violated God's law, or kept God's law were examples to us, for there is no new thing that will happen to flesh man, that has not already happened to others in the past. We are to study God's Word, and by our understanding of His Word, we can have the peace of mind that comes with God's faithfulness to His Word.

There is nothing new under the sun, even to the point of what happens at the end of this earth age, is a copy of what happened at the end of the first earth age. God has detailed out for us in His Word all events that will take place, right up to His second coming at the sounding of the seventh and final trumpet. He has name the signs, and given us examples even of the one world system that is coming upon us now, and will rule the minds of all mankind very shortly, all that is, except God's elect who know the truths, and will not be deceived.

No, you're making some mistakes here. You're conflating the example God made of Israel in the OT Scriptures with Jesus' use of typology in the Olivet Discourse. There is no real equation of these 2 things. The biblical account of Israel's history was not written typologically, in the sense of it being symbolic language. It was written *literally* as applied to Israel. And this example provided a model for other nations who wanted to be godly nations in the NT era.

So everything written about Israel's history was literal history, not pure symbolism for something else. It served as an example for the Church, but it quite literally happened to Israel.

So there is no basis for us to take the Olivet Discourse typologically. If anything you're admitting that the Discourse was literally about the 70 AD judgment, so that you can then apply it typologically to some future judgment.

You're quite right that Jesus was asked both about the coming judgment of Israel and the end of the age. But Jesus, though comparing these events, did not conflate them. He said the judgment against Israel would begin in his own generation, and then continue for generations in the form of the Jewish Diaspora.

And then, when the time for Jewish Dispersion has ended, he would come to bring the whole world, including Israel, under judgment. And this would lead to the final salvation of Israel, and the salvation of many nations on behalf of Abraham.

So the end of the world does relate to the initial judgment of Israel. But the 2 events are separated by more than 20 centuries! Jesus simply compared them because the judgment upon Israel would wait many years until judgment would happen upon the rest of the world, to prepare for Israel's final deliverance. God would wait many centuries until the whole world had opportunity to become godly nations, just as Israel had been given opportunity.

 

[Curtis]

3rd temple is the body of Christ

Matthew 26:61
And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

Hebrews 10:20
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Jhn 19:37 - And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

So you think the son of perdition steps into the body of Jesus, claims to be God, stops the animal sacrifices in Jesus’ body, and then claims to be God?

 

[n2thelight]

No, you're making some mistakes here. You're conflating the example God made of Israel in the OT Scriptures with Jesus' use of typology in the Olivet Discourse. There is no real equation of these 2 things. The biblical account of Israel's history was not written typologically, in the sense of it being symbolic language. It was written *literally* as applied to Israel. And this example provided a model for other nations who wanted to be godly nations in the NT era.

So everything written about Israel's history was literal history, not pure symbolism for something else. It served as an example for the Church, but it quite literally happened to Israel.

So there is no basis for us to take the Olivet Discourse typologically. If anything you're admitting that the Discourse was literally about the 70 AD judgment, so that you can then apply it typologically to some future judgment.

You're quite right that Jesus was asked both about the coming judgment of Israel and the end of the age. But Jesus, though comparing these events, did not conflate them. He said the judgment against Israel would begin in his own generation, and then continue for generations in the form of the Jewish Diaspora.

And then, when the time for Jewish Dispersion has ended, he would come to bring the whole world, including Israel, under judgment. And this would lead to the final salvation of Israel, and the salvation of many nations on behalf of Abraham.

So the end of the world does relate to the initial judgment of Israel. But the 2 events are separated by more than 20 centuries! Jesus simply compared them because the judgment upon Israel would wait many years until judgment would happen upon the rest of the world, to prepare for Israel's final deliverance. God would wait many centuries until the whole world had opportunity to become godly nations, just as Israel had been given opportunity.

What generation was Christ referring to ? ,therein lies your answer and the reason you missing the meaning .
What's the subject of Matt 24 ?

He gave them a warning so yes that did have meaning , however the generation that see's the climactic end to the chapter are those to whom the end shall come

 

[theefaith]

So you think the son of perdition steps into the body of Jesus, claims to be God, stops the animal sacrifices in Jesus’ body, and then claims to be God?

the church is the mystical body of Christ
The anti-Christ will declare himself God in the holy church

 

[Randy Kluth]

What generation was Christ referring to ? ,therein lies your answer and the reason you missing the meaning .
What's the subject of Matt 24 ?

He gave them a warning so yes that did have meaning , however the generation that see's the climactic end to the chapter are those to whom the end shall come

I understand your argument and respectfully disagree. Jesus did indeed answer questions about both the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the end of the world. But I don't believe he was conflating them, as I said. If he *only* was talking about the end of the world, then yes--he would have to be talking about the generation that sees the end of the world.

But he *wasn't* just talking about the end of the world. He was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem's temple *in his own generation.* A vast number of biblical scholars believe this and have said this. In fact, I think the vast *majority* of Christian scholars believe that Jesus was referring to the 70 AD judgment when he said "every stone will be taken down."

So, I believe that "every stone will be taken down" referred to the 70 AD judgment, and that the "end of the world" was to be when Israel's judgment in this age is completed. That's when Israel's final salvation will take place, which was the very concern expressed by the Disciples.

 

[Timtofly]

I understand your argument and respectfully disagree. Jesus did indeed answer questions about both the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the end of the world. But I don't believe he was conflating them, as I said. If he *only* was talking about the end of the world, then yes--he would have to be talking about the generation that sees the end of the world.

But he *wasn't* just talking about the end of the world. He was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem's temple *in his own generation.* A vast number of biblical scholars believe this and have said this. In fact, I think the vast *majority* of Christian scholars believe that Jesus was referring to the 70 AD judgment when he said "every stone will be taken down."

So, I believe that "every stone will be taken down" referred to the 70 AD judgment, and that the "end of the world" was to be when Israel's judgment in this age is completed. That's when Israel's final salvation will take place, which was the very concern expressed by the Disciples.

Jesus' answers included the Second Coming. Unless you claim the Second Coming was in 70AD, the majority of the answers places the Second Coming at the end of the church age. Jesus pointed out in 70AD that was still not the end. The end was at the Second Coming. Not after the events in 70AD. There is no Scripture other than the Olivet Discourse that claims and confirms the destruction of Jerusalem. Not even in Revelation. If it were not for 2 historians, we would have never known about it, period. All preterist have is historical accounts outside of Scripture. Same with historist. There is no Biblical proof.

They were not asking about the first coming and the Cross. The Cross ended the OT. Not man's recorded history outside of Scripture.

 

[MatthewG]

Is the abomination of desolation fulfilled?

You know this information could be wrong but a revolt of desolation was fulfilled.

Have heard that abomination of desolation might have been that of a Revolting coming from with-in Israel/Jerusalem? Possibly? Thoughts?

In my view personally. My view has to deal with a historical view; looking towards 70ad.

Do not believe me though or trust me.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

lk 21: 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

fulfilled 70 ad

I agree that that small portion of the Olivet discourse has been fulfilled. But the abomination of desolation has not yet been fulfilled, nor the prophecy of the ten kings/horns.

 

[Curtis]

the church is the mystical body of Christ
The anti-Christ will declare himself God in the holy church

That’s absolutely not what scripture says.

 

[n2thelight]

That’s absolutely not what scripture says.

That's exactly what the scripture says.

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

What part of the above are you missing ?