What a bunch of TOTAL HOGWASH! Let's hope no one buys this rubbish.
Adam and Eve Were Replacements for a Previous Couple Who Died
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
So far, not a single person has even come close to finding anything wrong with the OP.
Questions are dodged and instead we get the usual "I am right because I say so!" routine.
Cognitive Dissonance strikes again.
Questions are dodged and instead we get the usual "I am right because I say so!" routine.
Cognitive Dissonance strikes again.
The questions are simple and basic...
Any Christian should be able to answer. Usually, it is option #2.
The fact that so many are afraid to tell me is because they know deep in their Hearts that they are wrong.
That part should be obvious.
Any Christian should be able to answer. Usually, it is option #2.
The fact that so many are afraid to tell me is because they know deep in their Hearts that they are wrong.
That part should be obvious.
Perhaps if you scream louder and flail your arms a bit, it will magickally turn your feelings into facts.
It works for the Liberals right?
It works for the Liberals right?
Thank you for the above part @Brakelite . At least you are getting close to the point of this thread.
The phrase 'surely die' is synonymous with the Second Death.
It is the 'never rise again' part that contradicts what Genesis, and the rest of the Bible, teaches.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I think we had this conversation before.
Sin brought death into the world ON THAT DAY- PHYSICALLY AND SPIRITUALLY.
Every living organism began to die. Defects/ mutations began to evolve. Biologically, cells began to die. Adam and Eve, and all life didn't completely die on that day, but they began to age and eventually died. But something else died, spiritually, their relationship with God was severed and they passed that down to mankind.
Stop making up stuff.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Are you sure you can fit your ego swollen head out of a set of double doors?
Maybe you should reread Genesis and look closer at the Hebrew construct.
We leaqrn from the NT clearly that Adam and Eve died spiritually the day they ate. Also "yom" while generally meaning a day also means an undefined period.
And the "Thou shalt surely die" is :
| Word: | תָּמוּת |
| Speech: | Verb |
| Stem: | Qal |
| Type: | Imperfect (yiqtol) |
| Person: | Second Person |
| Gender: | Masculine |
| Number: | Singular |
| Long: | Hebrew Verb: Qal Imperfect (yiqtol) 2nd Person Masculine Singular |
and the imperfect or yiqtol type of verb meaqns a process or continous action.
so to render this properly in english it would read: On the day you eat of it, in dying you shall surely die.
You are simply wrong
Hi @Ronald David Bruno . I appreciate you bringing your perspective to the thread.
The phrase 'Spiritual Death' is not found in Scripture; therefore, I must reject it since it is not defined in any verse.
Spiritual Death is a made-up dogma. The Church has decided that it gets to define said dogma, no matter how contrary to the Word of God it is...
"The phrase spiritual death is not found in Protestant scriptures, and definitions of the concept thus vary among Protestant Christians."
Spiritual death in Christianity - Wikipedia
The reference above shows that this is FACT and not my 'opinion'. Therefore, I care not about made-up dogma. I care about what God says.
Excellent. We finally have something to test to see whether they be True or not...
Acts 17:11 (Berean Standard Bible)
"Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true."
The phrase 'surely die' is found twenty-two times in the King James Bible. Since I believe that there are no contradictions in the Word of God, I can apply your definition to see if it fits the other verses. If they do not, then the teaching is in error.
Let us try our first verse...
Genesis 20:7
"Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt
Nope, that does not work. Let us try another...
Judges 13:22
"And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall
Nope, that does not work. Let us try another...
1 Samuel 22:16
"And the king said, Thou shalt
Nope, that does not work. Let us try another...
2 Samuel 12:5
"And David’s anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall
Nope, that does not work. Let us try another...
1 Kings 2:37
"For it shall be, that on the day thou goest out, and passest over the brook Kidron, thou shalt know for certain that thou shalt
I can do this for all twenty-two verses, and we still have the same problem. Thus, as we can see with the above examples, when One alters Genesis 2:17 to say something it does not, what ends up happening is that all of the other verses in the Bible are now in severe contradiction. This is a big no-no.
You try and fix one thing but end up breaking everything else.
Insults are not appreciated or welcome. Please refrain from using them. Thanks.
I have. Please see my post #30 above.
Where do we learn this? Can you post the relevant verses?
I trust you applied your 'Hebrew Construct' techniques to all twenty-two verses to make sure they all work?
I did and discovered that they in fact do not work. See my post #30 above.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
How does all this rambling prove that Adam and Eve were not the first created human beings????
Here is something interesting about the original Hebrew...
Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt [die die]."
God is basically telling the First Adam that not only will he die once, but he will die twice. He will 'die die'.
Thus...
Surely Die = Twice Dead (Condemned to the Second Death)
This fits with all of the other uses of 'surely die'. It means to be Twice Dead.
And what does this say about the Tree of Life? That Adam and his Wife had to keep eating of it to stay alive?
Do not forget the fact that the Tree of Life is in the New Heavens and New Earth. What you are teaching is that the Glorified Body is no Glorified Body at all. It is still susceptible to aging and death if it does not continually eat from the Tree of Life.
Thus, Death is NOT swallowed up in victory. People still die in Heaven.
I do not agree with that.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Death is defined in scripture. Context is important.
Gen. 20:7 involves a restoration that takes time, not 1 day.
2 Samuel 12:5 does not say death in one day either.
1 Kings 2:37 was a physical threat on that day, but you cannot compare this scripture or any other scriptures with Genesis 2:17. Reality, life and conditions were different. Death did not exist. Then death came into existence with sin, physical and spiritual and that is a fact.
Your whole premise is nonsense. Learn what death is. The wages of sin is death, physical and spiritual. We are born with that death sentence. We all physically die and some are spiritually saved. On the day we are born, it can be said, we shall surely die. "Shall" meaning someday.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
They did not eat of the Tree of Life, they were prevented and kicked out so they wouldn't eat of it and remain in that state.
That is symbolic language.
Jesus is the VINE, HE IS THE LIFE. But He had to die first before anyone could eat of it.
Epic! Emphasis mine!
Too bad that your vast understanding doesn't include knowledge that the "this book" that is being referenced in Revelation 22 is..... wait for it..... not-- the Bible. Not even-- "The Book of Revelation" --"these sayings" --the things the spirit of Christ Jesus showed and told John. It doesn't concern Genesis 2. It's addressing specifically the words of the prophecy of 'this book.'
But the book that is referenced is the Book of Life, or 'the Lamb's Book of Life' if you prefer.
And it's been around a looooooooonnnnnnngggggggg time.
Moses--
And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin. And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Daniel--
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
David--
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
Paul--
And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
Luke--
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
--and probably a dozen times elsewhere in Revelation.
As it is written in Q-Bits book of Duderonomy. Dude.... you just made that up. It's not written anywhere. Good effort.... bad result.
That's not quite right.
"Day" or Hebrew 'yowm' is not strictly speaking twelve hours. It's a period of time-- yes, but not strictly defined as you seem to imagine. In fact, Genesis 1:5 tells us specifically that "day" is simply a name for the period of light-- or illumination. So it isn't wrong to say that day is the equivalent period of day-light, or the amount of time that the sun is shining, it isn't the whole concept. Your understanding for example doesn't include the idea that illumination includes the day of the Lord...
Jesus said he was there in the beginning. That he was that light-- that we call 'day.'
I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
None of the above.
1. Creation took 7 literal days.
2. As I said previously, death is simply that. Complete cessation of life. We are not immortal, not our spirit or soul lives on as a separate living entity after death.
3. Adam and Eve would have died that day as God warned, but grace stepped in when the Son of God offered to give His life a ransom for sinners, thus Adam and Eve were given a time of probation to repent and allow God to change their thinking and mindset.
You are now living in the time of your probation. You have the opportunity to choose to repent, and accept the gospel. Tomorrow's possible abrupt and sudden meeting with the blunt end of a bus may bring your time of probation to a close... As such encounters do with everyone eventually. After that, there is no further discussion.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The righteous believers in Christ are resurrected at the second coming.
The wicked who are now dead, and those who did at the second coming, take part in the second resurrection, the resurrection of damnation. After the pronouncement is guilty at their judgement, they are all cast into the lake of fire where they are eventually destroyed. There will be no resurrection from that. That death is permanent.
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