Adam and Eve Were Replacements for a Previous Couple Who Died

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St. SteVen

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Another great topic, thanks.
Before I dig into the meat of this, I wanted to offer my two cents on this bit.
Shockingly, most Christians have absolutely no problem with this whatsoever. This is ironic because altering the Word of God is a serious offense…

Revelation 22:18-19
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
My understanding is that this ONLY refers to the book (scroll) of Revelation. The NIV makes this more obvious.

And frankly, the Bible wasn't written as a single book with Revelation being the last part of the whole.
As you know, I hope, the Bible is a canon of collected and approved (voted on) books. (scrolls)
There is even more than one canon of scripture. Anyway, here's the NIV on this.

Revelation 22:18-19 NIV
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
 

St. SteVen

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God originally created a Man and a Woman *before* Adam and Eve. This original Man and Woman *died* after partaking the Forbidden Fruit, just as God warned. Not only did it happen in less than twenty-four hours, but it was also a real physical death. As a result, God had to recreate them. The new couple are what we now know as Adam and Eve.
This raises some questions about original sin, and what exactly Christ paid the death penalty for.
How do you respond to that?

We also have biblical genealogies to contend with.

Not to mention literal versus figurative readings of the creation narrative in Genesis.

And the science (Evolution) versus Creationism views.
So, tell me... Which alteration to the Word of God do you believe and teach?
  1. Day = 'One Thousand Years'
  2. Surely Die = 'Spiritual Death'
  3. Surely Die = 'Begin to Die'
I don't think the "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years" quote (misquote?) is supposed to be carried this far.
To me that just indicates the timelessness of God. He is not under the time restrictions that we are.
It doesn't mean that every time we see the word "day" in the Bible that it means a thousand years. IMHO

The death aspect is curious. They did not "surely die" (physically) in "the day they ate thereof".
So, I had concluded a spiritual death. Since they didn't die physically that day.

And they weren't eternal beings since the text states they were sent out of the Garden (orchard)
lest they partake of the Tree of Life and live forever.

Many questions remain. But that's okay. - LOL
 

St. SteVen

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Another verse that Christians have absolutely no problem altering to match the 'Official Narrative' is Genesis 2:4...

Genesis 2:4
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens"


Once again, the word 'day' is changed. Popular choices include...
  • 'Back in the day'
  • 'Six days'
  • 'Eons of time'
Note that the word 'day' supposedly means 'one thousand years' in Genesis 2:17, but now it means something different. Talk about moving the goal post!

Is this the proper, responsible way of handling the Word of God? If the answer is yes, then why is it OK to change words to make a verse say something it does not? Where is this taught in Scripture?
Did a quick definition search. See below.

Also, the NIV excludes the word "day".
"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created,
when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens." - Genesis 2:4 NIV

in the day
בְּי֗וֹם (bə·yō·wm)
Preposition-b | Noun - masculine singular construct
Strong's Hebrew 3117: 1) day, time, year 1a) day (as opposed to night) 1b) day (24 hour period) 1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1 1b2) as a division of time 1b2a) a working day, a day's journey 1c) days, lifetime (pl.) 1d) time, period (general) 1e) year 1f) temporal references 1f1) today 1f2) yesterday 1f3) tomorrow
 

St. SteVen

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Any new age esoteric pagan occult teaching that entertains the idea that the soul is immortal, is also a lie.
People who die are asleep, awaiting the resurrection.
"... new age esoteric pagan occult teaching..." Oh my.

Lots of Christians don't believe in soul sleep. Err... I mean...
Lots of "... new age esoteric pagan occult teaching..." Christians don't believe in soul sleep. - LOL

However, lots of Seventh Day Adventists believe in "soul sleep". (maybe JWs too?)
So, maybe it's okay? Not sure.

Wait, what's this? The "realm of the dead"?
The realm of the dead, where you are going? What?
Doesn't sound like unconscious nonexistence to me.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,
for in the realm of the dead, where you are going,
there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
 

St. SteVen

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So far, not a single person has even come close to finding anything wrong with the OP.

Questions are dodged and instead we get the usual "I am right because I say so!" routine.

Cognitive Dissonance strikes again.
Agree.
Intelligent rebuttals like, "HOGWASH!!!"

Please join this new thread when you are able. Thanks.
Everyone is invited.
 

St. SteVen

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The questions are simple and basic...



Any Christian should be able to answer. Usually, it is option #2.

The fact that so many are afraid to tell me is because they know deep in their Hearts that they are wrong.

That part should be obvious.
Well, to be honest, it's a bit of a loaded question.
"So, tell me... Which alteration to the Word of God do you believe and teach?"
Could you rephrase?
 

St. SteVen

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The phrase 'Spiritual Death' is not found in Scripture; therefore, I must reject it since it is not defined in any verse.

Spiritual Death is a made-up dogma. The Church has decided that it gets to define said dogma, no matter how contrary to the Word of God it is...
The word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible either.
So, where did we get that doctrine? (the Bible)

What kind of death is referred to in this scripture below? Not physical death.
We can only conclude spiritual death, unless you have a better idea.

Ephesians 2:1-2 NIV
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world
and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air,
the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
 
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Brakelite

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"... new age esoteric pagan occult teaching..." Oh my.

Lots of Christians don't believe in soul sleep. Err... I mean...
Lots of "... new age esoteric pagan occult teaching..." Christians don't believe in soul sleep. - LOL

However, lots of Seventh Day Adventists believe in "soul sleep". (maybe JWs too?)
So, maybe it's okay? Not sure.

Wait, what's this? The "realm of the dead"?
The realm of the dead, where you are going? What?
Doesn't sound like unconscious nonexistence to me.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,
for in the realm of the dead, where you are going,
there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
Doctrine ought not to be judged as true or false based on who believes it, but on what the Bible teaches.
The Bible declares death to be but a sleep from which believers will be awakened at the first resurrection (John 11:11-14, 25, 26; 1 Cor. 15:20, 51-54; 1 Thess. 4:14-17; 5:10). It is not until then that both the living and the resurrected saints will be with the Lord (see 1 Thess. 4:16-18). Neither group precedes the other (cf. Heb. 11:39, 40).

Notwithstanding what I said above about judging doctrine, it must be noted surely that all false religions, all pagan occult religions, of every hue and shade, all share one common theme... Dead people are not "surely" dead.
KJV Genesis 3:3-4
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Interesting don't you think, that Christian pulpits throughout the world echo the words of Satan as opposed to the words of God? That Satan has built his kingdom based on that first lie in Eden? And that it took the sure death of the Son of God in a legal sense to win back that kingdom?

So does Ecclesiastes 9:10 make void Daniel 12:2? Or is Solomon confirming in his own words the truth that the dead wait on a state of unconscious existence until the resurrection?
KJV Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence
KJV Psalms 146:3-4
3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

By the way, adventists and JWs weren't the first to teach that the dead are unconscious in the grave.
Martin Luther put it this way...
We should learn to view our death in the right light, so that we need not become alarmed on account of it, as unbelief does; because in Christ it is indeed not death, but a fine, sweet and brief sleep, which brings us release from this vale of tears, from sin and from the fear and extremity of real death and from all the misfortunes of this life, and we shall be secure and without care, rest sweetly and gently for a brief moment, as on a sofa, until the time when He shall awaken us together with all His dear children to His eternal glory and joy...For since we call it a sleep, we know that we shall not remain in it, but be again awakened and live, and that the time during which we sleep, shall seem no longer than if we had just fallen asleep... Hence we shall censure ourselves that we were surprised or alarmed at such a sleep in the hour of death, and suddenly come alive out of the grave and from decomposition, and entirely well, fresh, with a pure, clear, glorified life, meet our Lord and savior Jesus Christ in the clouds...Scripture everywhere affords such consolation, which speaks of the death of the saints, as if they fell asleep and were gathered to their fathers, that is had overcome death through this faith and comfort in Christ, and awaited the resurrection, together with the saints who preceeded them in death.
 

St. SteVen

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Interesting don't you think, that Christian pulpits throughout the world echo the words of Satan as opposed to the words of God?
All that based on your biblical opinion. Terrific.

It's easy to identify a cult.
They are in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you.
Where does that get us?
 

Brakelite

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All that based on your biblical opinion.

So does Ecclesiastes 9:10 make void Daniel 12:2? Or is Solomon confirming in his own words the truth that the dead wait on a state of unconscious existence until the resurrection?
KJV Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence
KJV Psalms 146:3-4
3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.