After your born again do you think you will never sin again?
- Thread starter Armour of God
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I think continue to sin is a better translation. You can see that here. I would think it refers to a continued lifestyle of sin.
Then again maybe it means what Paul was saying....17 In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
From what I understand hope in Christ produces an on going pursuit of holiness. Do you agree?
Believers do not cleanse themselves to earn salvation or keep salvation. Are you saying the blood of Christ doesn't cleanse us from sin?
Are you saying if you sin from day to day and don't confess your new sins then you're not forgiven of that sin or sins?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Hi CC,
I'll repeat myself that reading Romans 7 in CONTEXT (not yelling, just emphasizing LOL) starting at verse one shows it was to those who "know the Law" of Moses (Jews). You have posted this verse out of context again. Again, verses 14-25 are not about Christians because Christians are not in the flesh and are free from sin. CC, read the previous chapter 6 and the one following: 8. The Old Covenant is over as shown in verses 5-6. Removing the desire to commit lawless sin is taken out of our nature when we are born again of the powerful Spirit of God. And Jesus said, "you must be born again.
Of course. But it is Jesus that does that work in us and the Author and Finisher of our faith, not we on our own. All we have to do once we've repented and been born again where Jesus has taken away the desire to commit the worst of 2 types of sin that makes us the lower level of purity called righteousness (that which type the previous Catholics knew about before the Reformation, and all Protestants do not), is to keep abiding in Him. Walk in the Spirit consistently and next, during a long process (not called sanctification, but glorification, that again Protestants believe is after we die. Oy veh! But you are in luck if you are open to the scriptures that tell the truth.) And in answer to your question, Jesus doesn't stop at making us righteous with the righteousness of Christ, not our own. His righteousness in us is not a "cover up of our sin" it is the power to not sin. CC, that is what no Protestant nor Catholic teaches. Holiness is what Jesus' goal is for all of us. "Be perfect as my Father in heaven is perfect. That is the higher level of purity, and takes the longest time by Jesus as the Finisher of our faith, but it is just maturing in all the fruit of the Spirit. They are important because those who do not bear fruit are taken away and burned.
I believe what you do too. But seeing as Protestants published the first Bibles I think there has to be some error in translation. I just looked up the Greek and it is comparable to "once pure keep yourself pure." I'd say that's a big boo boo in the way they published it, don't you? At least that is how I interpreted the literal "on him purifies himself as that one pure is."
I'll stick with the protestants. Catholics get a lot wrong. They get a lot right....but as I said they get a lot incorrect.
The reformation fixed a lot of their problems.
You are right, Jesus doesn't cover our sins but REMOVES our sins. All of them, past, present as well as future.
Yes.When you say "we" are naturally children of the devil, you mean up until we are born again, right?
"...dead in the trespasses and sins in which we once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience ~ among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace we have been saved..." (Paul, Ephesians 2:1-5).
Absolutely. As Jesus says.... well:
"Jesus said to his disciples, 'Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.' When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, 'Who then can be saved?' But Jesus looked at them and said, 'With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' " (Matthew 18:23-26).
"Jesus... said, 'How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.' Those who heard it said, 'Then who can be saved?' But He said, 'What is impossible with man is possible with God.' ” (Luke 18:25-27)
No, what we see is... <smile> ...should, anyway, is:
- Even David, speaking/praying to God, says, "no one living is righteous before You" (Psalm 143:2).
- And Paul, quoting Isaiah, says, "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good" (Romans 3:10-12).
So here again we see the now and the not yet. We are credited with the righteousness of Jesus. This is the now. When ~ when ~ we are glorified, which will be at the day of Christ, at His return, we will then have been made new, along with the rest of creation (Revelation 21:5). Then we will be just like Jesus... fully righteous and holy, like Him. And this is an absolute certainty, but as of now still future for all of us, so... not yet. But we can, even now, as Paul says, regard ourselves and other Christians as no longer of the flesh;
"...the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and He died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for Him Who for their sake died and was raised. From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard Him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation..." (2 Corinthians 5:14-17).
Now, Paul does go on there to say, "The old has passed away; behold, the new has come" (2 Corinthians 5:18). But we should understand this in the same sense as what he says elsewhere, that we, like Paul, "have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer (we) who live, but Christ who lives in (us). And the life (we) now live in the flesh (we) live by faith in the Son of God, Who loved (us) and gave himself for (us)" (Galatians 2:20).
Not in the sense you mean that. See above. The Holy Spirit is at work in us, making us like Jesus. But this is not a once-and-for-all, immediate occurrence. We have been renewed, yes ~ justified in Christ ~ but are being made new ~ sanctified, which is a gradual occurrence over the rest of our lives ~ at the same time. Again, the simultaneous now and not yet.
We no longer willfully sin. We know what sin is, and we don't want to sin. This is because we have been born again, and we are now of God... God is our Father, and we want to do His will, as opposed to before, when the devil was our father, and our will was to do his will (cf. John 8:44; 10:27).
Yeah, let's look at it. You must see here, yet again, the now and the not yet:
"For if we have been united with Him in a death like His, we shall certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin."
We have been set free from sin, so we are not slaves to unrighteousness but to righteousness. But we are not yet completely free of it... we still ~ at least from time to time <smile> ~ sin. See above.
Without enslavement to it. See above. We are set free from our slavery to it, but we are not yet wholly inclined against it. But we will be, one great day.
Hmmmm... I understand, but I think you should see those two things as two different things. <smile> We are no longer slaves to unrighteousness, but we are not yet completely free of our propensity toward it. And as I have said, this is precisely why, over and over again, we are exhorted to "put off the old man and put on the new," to "flee from sin which so easily entangles," to "put on the whole armor of God..." You see?
<chuckles> I'm not sure how you can even say that, and frankly I'm not even sure what that means... <smile>
<chuckles>
Weeeeeeellllllllllllllllllll... <smile> Maybe the first one that was answered how you wanted it to be answered... <smile> But yes, God heard that prayer, which means not that He didn't, woodenly speaking, hear your prayers before, but that He actually acted to overcome it in you. Perhaps He had a greater purpose in using it (formerly, of course, for a time), even causing you to suffer in some sense from the guilt of it ~ so thereby disciplining you in that way ~ to draw you closer to Him... <smile>
Hmmm... again, maybe you no longer had/have the propensity toward that on particular sin... what we sometimes call a besetting sin... <smile>. It is amazing how God draws us to Him, no? I mean it's different for all of us, really, but He does it, somehow... some way... and then we are His...
Same to you!
<chuckles> I go to a Presbyterian church... I should say PCA; there are many flavors of Presbyterians, you know... <smile>
Grace and peace to you.
Last edited:
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
You are confusing the New Covenant with the Old. And what truly being born again is like, with before being born again.
You're breaking my heart!!! Did Jesus die so you could freely sin your head off without condemnation? I guess you've bought into the false doctrines from the beginning of the Reformation.
I know what true freedom from sin feels like. I was deep in adultery and loved it. But I knew it was a sin and prayed that I was too weak, but You are strong. If you want this relationship broken, make him break up with me, and give him the strength to stay away from me. One week later he ended it. I was heart broken. But two weeks later I experienced truly being born again. I even felt a dark heaviness lift out of my body through my shoulders. It is REAL, not a theologian theory, or in any way fake or unexperiential, or only imputed without becoming righteous and maybe even holy. Yes, He does all the work, but IN US.
You think you still have a sin nature. I know I don't. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he. That is the meaning of "reckoning" in Romans 6.
Last edited:
Hmmm. Well, I say you are completely separating the New Covenant from the Old ~ and completely dismissing the Old, actually ~ which should not ~ and cannot ~ be done. You may remember what the writer of Hebrews says:
"In speaking of a new covenant, He makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away" (Hebrews 8:3).
The strong implication there is that it has not vanished away completely. Here again is the now and not yet.
We should not think of the New Covenant ~ Jesus Himself ~ as "replacing" the Old, but rather see it ~ the New Covenant... Jesus Himself, actually ~ as the full and complete manifestation of the Old... the final fulfillment of it.
In Galatians 3:2, Paul says, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law," but notice there that he does not say we are separated from the law altogether. Again, not a complete "replacement" or "revoking" of the law... Remember Jesus's "but I tell you" statements regarding the law in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7). Using the examples of adultery and murder, He clarified just how big those commandments really are, that they are matters of the heart rather than just the outward acts. The Old Testament law still performs a very important function for us, which is to point us to the true Law, Jesus Christ Himself. The civil and ceremonial laws are gone ~ we do not have to observe the food laws, for example; all things are now blessed to us in Jesus Christ ~ but not the moral; even Jesus Himself said, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment... a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets” (Matthew 22:37-40). So we observe the law in a different... better... way.
This is how Paul goes on to say there that "before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith" (Galatians 3:23-26). And then finally in Galatians 6:2, Paul exhorts us to "fulfill the law of Christ." The writer of Hebrews makes this clear also: "on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God" (Hebrews 7:18-19). Jesus is that Better Hope. So yes, we are not under the Old Testament Law, but under the law of Jesus Christ (Galatians 6:2).
This is Covenant theology, as opposed to Dispensationalism, which is... not good... <smile>
Hmmm. If you were understanding me correctly, I think you would be amazed at just how amazing God's glory and His grace is. As Paul says... notice the repeated bolded phrase here:
"In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth in Him. In Him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him Who works all things according to the counsel of His will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory" (Ephesians 1:5-14).
Ahhh, the "license to sin" fallacy. I'll just say this, very succinctly: When we are born again, God puts a new spirit in us... gives us His Holy Spirit... so that then our desire is not to sin, to do God's will, and that from then on our striving is to overcome sin. In our being born again, 1stCenturyLady, God changes our heart, and this in turn causes us to change our will, and we freely do so. God says, through Ezekiel ~ and this is what happens when we are born again:
"I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes and be careful to obey My rules" (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
There are most assuredly consequences of sin ~ God disciplines those He loves (Hebrews 12:5-7) ~ and sometimes harshly so. So there is no sanctioning of sin by anyone, much less God. But even this discipline is a grace of God:
"And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? 'My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by Him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom He receives. It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?"
Paul addresses this very issue in Romans 6:15-18, saying:
"Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness."
Grace and peace to you.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I take it you are Protesant, and are under the illusion that "sin is sin," the cause of the false doctrines you've memorized.
What is taken away in one swell swoop are sins unto death - willful sins - lawless sins, moral sins like murder, stealing, lying, adultery and coveting.
Do you really have a problem with any of those? If so, you might be like I was for the first 30 years of going to church with an unwashed, unsanctified and unjustified sin nature. 1 Corinthians 6:11. Give yourself a test and read Galatians 5:19-21 and see if you are struggling with any of these. If not, then why can't you accept that your sin nature is now clean, and all that you have left are the type of minor sins that can take years to mature in, and those are sins NOT unto death called trespasses unintentionally committed, and come from immature fruit, not a sin nature that no longer exists, because Jesus defeated the works of Satan on the Cross. 1 John 3:8.
PS, Look at Romans 1:16-17, and in 17 you will see from faith to faith. Jesus handles the 2 types of sin from faith to faith as first the Author of our faith, and then as the Finisher of our faith.
1. Righteous
2. Holy
Jesus wants the best for us and are not just being conformed into the image of Christ with a covering, but actually on the inside. If you can relater, Great! If you can't, take the test. Jesus said, "you MUST be born again" for real! 1 John 3:7
Similar threads
