TribulationSigns
Active Member
No, you both are wrong. You need to study the Scripture carefully:
Job 1:6
- ""Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them."
- "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord."
As for the actual verse, some people have legitimately been confused by the language that these sons of God "came to present [yatsab] (meaning, to station or position) themselves before the Lord." Some think that this must mean that they were in "literal" heaven. That is not the case! We have to keep in mind the times that we are reading about. The time of Job was the early years of the world. The language of "presenting themselves before God", is common in Biblical History, and doesn't denote literally appearing in physical Heaven before Him. It is simply the common language of the day denoting coming to a place designated for the presence of God, in order to inquire of Him. Today, for example, we'd go to a church to do this. That would be our coming to present ourselves and inquire of God. In those days, they would have their own designated Holy place. We see this clearly for example in Deuteronomy chapter 31:
Deuteronomy 31:14-15
- "...call Joshua, and Present Yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and Presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.
- and the Lord appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud:...."
1st Samuel 10:19
- "...Now therefore Present Yourselves before the Lord by your tribes, and by your thousands."
Next literally we read in Job 1:6 says "..and there doth come Satan in their midst." So the sons of God came to present themselves before God, and Satan (the adversary) came in the midst of the congregation with them also! As indeed Satan normally does among God's people. I hope you have not forgotten that unlike the 12 Disciples with Christ in Jerusalem, and Satan coming in the midst of them within Judas. There we have an example of Judas as the adversary coming in the midst of the sons of God at the Sop with our Lord, and Christ telling him, "That thou doest, do quickly." Once again we see that Satan makes his appearance on earth through men.
Yes, it's an event that took place, but NOT in heaven, NOT with angels, NOT with a being called Satan, but in the early assembly of God's children, where the adversary came among them to bring railing accusation, and God responds with a teaching lesson for all of us that would last in His word until Christ returns. The adversary meant it for evil, but God used it for good.
Moreover, this also proves to any Bible believing, rationally thinking person that if this were very literally Satan in heaven at the time of Job, then undeniably he couldn't have been the fallen angelic being in the Garden of Eden that was allegedly cursed because that would necessarily mean that after that cursing, God allowed him back into heaven as an evil angel. Yet again "proving" the total and clear bankruptcy of this doctrine that this was the same being Satan that was in the Garden. How is Satan cursed in the Garden, and then years later at the time of Job, flew back into heaven with God and other supposed angels. HUH?! It makes no sense because it's NOT true. Sadly, it is a faulty church tradition of "fallen angels" that has been passed down through the years and that many Christians cannot seem to let go of like you do! Even when they know it's contradictory, convoluted and inconsistent.
God talking to Satan is no different from God asking Adam and Eve where they were when of course He knew perfectly well where they were. Or Him telling the Serpent in the garden that he had been cursed. It's all for our learning. Not a discussion for Satan, but for us. In this conversation, we understand the mind of a wicked man who inserts himself into God's assembly and reviles and speaks evil against God's faithful. There is nothing new under the sun. What does God do? God allows adversity upon Job, knowing the end from the beginning, for our benefit and edification.
In the book of Genesis and other parts of the Old Testament, the term "sons of God" refers to God's spiritual family, which includes men, women, and children. However, due to their disobedience and worldly desires, they decided to mix with the heathen, who were known as the "daughters of men" - Satan's spiritual family. As a result, they often had giants among them. But the real question that has been asked many times is, what exactly does the term "giants" mean in God's eyes?
I will wait to hear your biblical answer to it. But I won't hold my breath knowing where you come from.
