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All eschatological views are correct?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by stunnedbygrace, Feb 5, 2022.

  1. Stumpmaster

    Stumpmaster Well-Known Member

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    Mar 9:43-48 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— (44) where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.' (45) And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— (46) where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.' (47) And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— (48) where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.'

    QUOTE FROM MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY on this passage:

    With what an emphasis of terror are those words repeated three times here, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched! The words are quoted from Isaiah 66:24.
    (1.) The reflections and reproaches of the sinner's own conscience are the worm that dieth not; which will cleave to the damned soul as the worms do to the dead body, and prey upon it, and never leave it till it is quite devoured. Son, remember, will set this worm gnawing; and how terrible will it bite that word (Pro_5:12, Pro_5:23), How have I hated instruction! The soul that is food to this worm, dies not; and the worm is bred in it, and one with it, and therefore neither doth that die. Damned sinners will be to eternity accusing, condemning, and upbraiding, themselves with their own follies, which, how much soever they are now in love with them, will at the last bite like a serpent, and sting like an adder.
    (2.) The wrath of God fastening upon a guilty and polluted conscience, is the fire that is not quenched; for it is the wrath of the living God, the eternal God, into whose hands it is a fearful thing to fall. There are no operations of the Spirit of grace upon the souls of the damned sinners, and therefore there is nothing to alter the nature of the fuel, which must remain for ever combustible; nor is there any application of the merit of Christ to them, and therefore there is nothing to appease or quench the violence of the fire. Dr. Whitby shows that the eternity of the torments of hell was not only the constant faith of the Christian church, but had been so of the Jewish church. Josephus saith, The Pharisees held that the souls of the wicked were to be punished with perpetual punishment; and that there was appointed for them a perpetual prison. And Philo saith, The punishment of the wicked is to live for ever dying, and to be for ever in pains and griefs that never cease.
     
  2. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, yeah, and destroy means not destroy but rather means torture. Forever.
     
  3. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    I cant remove the words "For Ever And Ever" as you desire, there will be a consequence for doing such

    Revelation 22:19KJV
    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    Revelation 14:9-11KJV
    9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
     
  4. doxley

    doxley Member

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    This is why I don't frequent churches and christian establishments. You would think you would be walking into a room full of loving kindly people, then someone turns around and talks about Bill down the road who is going to be tortured in hell eternally. It not only puts many Christians off, but it's why many people don't even entertain Christianity. It's violent, viscous and makes God sound like a psychopath..

    THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED
    Metaphores, the errors they made will never be forgotten. But believe what you want.
     
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  5. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    It appears that Matthew Henry also denied a place of conscious eternal torment of the wicked in the lake if fire
     
  6. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Hah! I don’t want you to remove them from the passage as it stands.
     
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  7. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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  8. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    If there is any question, it’s always best for men to refuse to judge and if any error is made, it should always be toward mercy, not away from mercy, as regards others.
     
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  9. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    If any doctrine turns men vicious, I reject it, and go looking for where the mistake was made.
     
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  10. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    And the words "For Ever And Ever" won't be removed in my belief either, the wicked will suffer eternal conscious torment, just as scripture teaches
     
  11. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Oh don’t make me do it again…
    Wah, wah, wah.
     
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  12. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    Nobody has turned viscious as you suggest, it's been a pleasure in learning your belief concerning eternal torment of the wicked, being their (Monumental Smoke) is tormented for ever and ever, but not the actual wicked are consciously tormented eternally

    Perhaps you can now share your belief concerning the wicked upon death, and the soul sleeps unconsciously, with no torment in "Hell"?
     
  13. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Psh!
     
  14. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    In Love, Jesus Is The Lord
     
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  15. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    What would God need to say to express eternal torment?

    Perhaps, "and these shall go into everlasting torment" . . . would that do it?

    Much love!
     
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  16. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    If Bill were on a road leading into a fire, would you consider it wise to warn him?

    Much love!
     
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  17. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Verse please. Unless you meant to say “eternal punishment?”
     
  18. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry, I think ESV does say that…
    Edit: no, I can’t find it.
    One mention of outer darkness, one mention of eternal fire.

    It never says outer darkness is thrown into the lake of fire and, eternal fire means eternal fire, which begins to make annihilation sound like a more merciful fate than outer darkness. Since men don’t have eternal life apart from being given the Holy Spirit, outer darkness begins to sound like the worst fate because from what I read, it IS forever.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
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  19. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Well-Known Member

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    Before your eyes in "Bold Red"

    "He Shall Be Tormented"

    Revelation 14:9-11KJV
    9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
     
  20. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Yes…? Did you forget to tack on eternally there?
     
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