All eschatological views are correct?

[marks]

Verse please. Unless you meant to say “eternal punishment?”

Would that do it? If the Bible said that?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Would that do it? If the Bible said that?

Much love!

you mean would it make me say all men have eternal life and that no men perish? No.

 

[marks]

kolasin, used 1 other place in the Bible,



These shall go into eternal torment . . . the same as fear has torment. Fear does not cease you from existing.

Much love!

 

[marks]

you mean would it make me say all men have eternal life and that no men perish? No.

I meant just to show you there would be eternal torment. Let's not get ahead of ourselves shall we?

We have totally different ideas of what death and perish mean.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

you mean would it make me say all men have eternal life and that no men perish? No.

The horse is dead, you deny the wicked will be consciously eternally tormented

The torment you believe is in their (Monumental Smoke) that will be tormented, but not the actual wicked soul

You also deny "Hell" and the wicked being tormented upon death, as you teach the wicked unaware soul sleeps, waiting upon the resurrection

No need for us to repeat the same thing, we have voiced our views, and we now know one another's belief concerning the subject

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I meant just to show you there would be eternal torment. Let's not get ahead of ourselves shall we?

We have totally different ideas of what death and perish mean.

Much love!

Yes, I know. I think death means death and you think death means eternal life.
And I think perish means perish and you think perish means eternal life.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The horse is dead, you deny the wicked will be consciously eternally tormented, the torment you believe is their (Monumental Smoke) will be tormented

You also deny "Hell" and the wicked being tormented upon death, as you teach the wicked unaware soul sleeps, waiting upon the resurrection

No need for us to repeat the same thing, we have voiced our views, and we now know one another's belief concerning the subject

You keep saying the horse is dead and there’s no need to repeat, yet here you are again in another thread, very determined to wah, wah, wah.

 

[ewq1938]

What would God need to say to express eternal torment?

No verse in the bible has "eternal torment".

 

[Truth7t7]

No verse in the bible has "eternal torment".

How about "Torment" for ever and ever?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

View attachment 20506

kolasin, used 1 other place in the Bible,

View attachment 20507

These shall go into eternal torment . . . the same as fear has torment. Fear does not cease you from existing.

Much love!

kolasin means chastening, as in corrective punishment.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How about "Torment" for ever and ever?

the smoke of their torment.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No verse in the bible has "eternal torment".

Revelation 20:10 is the only place I have found where it says tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It’s referring to 3 specific beings.

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 20:10 is the only place I have found where it says tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It’s referring to 3 specific beings.

I'm sorta done with hell and the lake if fire in eternal torment, we have shared our beliefs, and my mind isnt changing, and I'm sure you feel the same

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm sorta done with hell and the lake if fire in eternal torment, we have shared our beliefs, and my mind isnt changing, and I'm sure you feel the same

mmm…okay…I was responding to ewq there.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 20:10 is the only place I have found where it says tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It’s referring to 3 specific beings.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Technically only the Devil is said to be tormented day and night for ever but we can't assume “day and night forever and ever” is literal based on other scriptures that use the same type of language non-literally:


Isa 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Isa 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Isaiah uses the same language concerning Edom and Edom is not still burning and people do pass through that area yet the verse says none shall pass through that area forever and ever. This is an intentional exaggeration and should be understood in that way just as Rev 20:10 should be.

Another example where "forever" does not mean forever:

Exo 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Not literally forever of course. It simply means "a long time", ie: the rest of his life, an intentional exaggeration.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning therefore this eternal fire does not imply the target burns eternally but that this fire exists eternally whether it has something to burn or not and since God is a consuming fire it makes sense that it is eternal because God is eternal.


Phm 1:14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
Phm 1:15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;

Of course this is impossible for mortal people to do which renders this as a figure of speech rather than literally "for ever".



Heb_2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Even the devil will be destroyed.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

He will be devoured by fire, turned to ashes and shall never exist anymore. That's Annihilation.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Technically only the Devil is said to be tormented day and night for ever but we can't assume “day and night forever and ever” is literal based on other scriptures that use the same type of language non-literally:


Isa 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Isa 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Isaiah uses the same language concerning Edom and Edom is not still burning and people do pass through that area yet the verse says none shall pass through that area forever and ever. This is an intentional exaggeration and should be understood in that way just as Rev 20:10 should be.

Another example where "forever" does not mean forever:

Exo 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Not literally forever of course. It simply means "a long time", ie: the rest of his life, an intentional exaggeration.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning therefore this eternal fire does not imply the target burns eternally but that this fire exists eternally whether it has something to burn or not and since God is a consuming fire it makes sense that it is eternal because God is eternal.


Phm 1:14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
Phm 1:15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;

Of course this is impossible for mortal people to do which renders this as a figure of speech rather than literally "for ever".



Heb_2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Even the devil will be destroyed.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

He will be devoured by fire, turned to ashes and shall never exist anymore. That's Annihilation.

I do agree. I think even the devil won’t be tormented forever. I was pointing out the one and only verse I have ever found that might suggest what some say, but even then, it would only deal with 3 particular beings.

 

[ewq1938]

I do agree. I think even the devil won’t be tormented forever. I was pointing out the one and only verse I have ever found that might suggest what some say, but even then, it would only deal with 3 particular beings.

Yeah, that is the only real verse they have and like I said, even forever doesn't always mean that long.

A little more on this topic:

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

A lot of negative things will not exist in the future.

Wiping tears away means no more tears. Tears will not exist.
There shall be no more death. Death will not exist.
There shall be no more sorrow. Sorrow will not exist.
There shall be no more crying. Crying will not exist.
There shall be no more pain. Pain will not exist.

"for the former things are passed away." That means they are gone, gone everywhere, gone forever. If those things existed anywhere then the scripture would be lying.



Tears, death, sorrow, crying and pain will be Annihilated and shall never again exist. Is it such a stretch that the unsaved wicked people will also be Annihilated? Scripture over and over promises that they shall be Annihilated. Believe what scripture says and reject false doctrines that teach otherwise.



John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .

Being destroyed means they are Annihilated.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.


This is just a small offering of what the bible actually teaches on this subject.

 

[Truth7t7]

I do agree. I think even the devil won’t be tormented forever. I was pointing out the one and only verse I have ever found that might suggest what some say, but even then, it would only deal with 3 particular beings.

A Bold Statement, That Many Would Consider Blasphemy

Merriam-Webster
Definition of blasphemy

1a: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God

 

[ewq1938]

A Bold Statement, That Many Would Consider Blasphemy

Merriam-Webster
Definition of blasphemy

1a: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God

What she said has nothing to do with "insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God" and you know it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

A Bold Statement, That Many Would Consider Blasphemy

Merriam-Webster
Definition of blasphemy

1a: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God

Thank God He’s the one who will judge me and not you!