1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured All Israel will be saved

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Nov 14, 2016.

  1. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes Received:
    361
    Do share,(what was said)in the meantime how do you explain Him hating Esau before he was born?

    Also the subject is Jeremiah,not Christ...
     
  2. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I disagree.
     
  3. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes Received:
    361
    You can,however scripture dosn't.

    And Esau?
     
  4. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You don't speak for Scripture.
     
  5. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes Received:
    361
    I don't however ,I can follow the object and subject.

    So how you get Christ from that verse is beyond my comprhension.

    Jeremiah 1:4 "Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,"

    Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

    So can you please tell me how you get this to be Christ?

    Was Esau Christ as well?
     
  6. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    All Israel will be saved.....
    This truth will happen, but the Israel referred to is not the citizens of the current State of Israel. They face judgement like every other apostate and ungodly people.

    [SIZE=medium]Romans 10:4 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]For Jesus Christ is the end of the Law and brings righteousness to everyone who has faith in Him.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Romans 10:10-13[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Faith in your heart leads to righteousness and confession on your lips leads to salvation. Everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved. In this[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]there is no distinction between Jew or Gentile, for the same Lord is Lord of all and has riches enough for all who call on Him.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=medium]Romans 11:25 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]There is a Divine secret here; this partial hardening has come on Israel [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium][the Jews][/SIZE][SIZE=medium] only until the Gentiles have been admitted in full strength, once that has happened, the whole[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] of [/SIZE][SIZE=medium][Christian][/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Israel will be saved.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=medium]Romans 12:11-12 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]With unflagging zeal, aglow with the Spirit, serve the Lord. Let hope keep you joyful, in trouble stand firm and persist in prayer. v21 Do not let evil conquer you, but use good to conquer evil.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Romans 13:14 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Let Jesus Himself be the armor that you wear and give your unspiritual nature no opportunity to satisfy its desires.[/SIZE]
     
  7. brokentuningfork

    brokentuningfork Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Portugal
    Guys chill out lol, don't be throwing slanderous terms or arguing with each other on account of the Jews please hold a balanced view just like Paul.


    As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Rom. 11:28

    They are still the chosen people of God who (remember) are rejecting their king. So yes we must love them and try to help them see the lighy but they are not your friends when it comes to the gospel and spreading it.
     
  8. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes Received:
    361
    Who are the chosen people of God

    Scripture tells me ,if you're not with Him you're against Him,and that He's also not na respecter of persons

    No one will be saved ,just because,period,and I don't care who you are....

    How many actually made it to the promised land?
     
  9. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    [SIZE=medium]Now take a look at who Paul said the true Israelites were: [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Romans 2:28-29 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]He is not a Jew[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], [a member of the Israel of God] [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]who is one outwardly; because of circumcision, which is displayed in the flesh: but he is an Israelite who is circumcision is of the heart, in the Spirit and not in the letter [or outward freshly lineage], whose praise is not of men, but of God[/SIZE][SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Speaking to the New Covenant church, Colossians 2:11 he said,[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] You are circumcised with the circumcision of Christ[/SIZE][SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Christians are now the chosen and blessed Israelites, one people: the nation who have faith in God through the Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew 21:43[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=medium]Paul received his understanding in all this by revelation from God, His secret purpose made known: Ephesians 3:1-6, Galatians 1:12. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Paul says: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]You, brethren [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]should not be ignorant of this mystery[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Romans 11:25[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]How often have people been asked to pray for the peace of Israel & Jerusalem? How often have you heard the contradiction of Jesus’ offer of universal salvation; that you, even though you are a Christian, are a Gentile and that the ethnic Jew is still the chosen of God? This false teaching is promoted by those who believe in a rapture to heaven of the Church, while ethnic Israel remains to undergo purification on earth. This pretentious idea is not supported by scripture. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Zechariah 12:1-14 describes the scene at the Return of Jesus, where [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]a remnant of Judah will finally find their strength in the Lord and mourn for Him that they pierced. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=medium]The New Testament is all about God making a Way for a nation of Spiritual Israelites; Christians that would bring forth fruit consistent with their faithfulness and trust in God. [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Galatians 5:22-25 A fruitful people of God. Matthew 21:43[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Many of the prophets had said that if Judah rejected God and the One He sent to them, she would be pulled up by the roots and so she was: Luke 21:20-24, in 70 AD and will be again in the near future: Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 22:14[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Jesus is declared to be the new tree of life and "the branches" consist of a newly chosen people, called from every nation, John 15:1-17, to form the Christian Israel of God! [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Galatians 6:16[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Ethnic Israelis are "natural branches" and have been broken off the ‘Olive Tree’, that Jesus is the root and sustainer of. Only be becoming Christian, can they be reattached to the tree of Life. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=medium]The Christian church is the circumcision[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Circumcision; the Marked and set aside ones, also known as Nazarenes.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Paul said to the gentile church: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Brethren: We are the circumcision, [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]which worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Philippians 3:3; Colossians 2:11[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Ephesians 2:11-18 also contrasts the saved and the unsaved, Christian believers and every other non-Christian person in the world. [/SIZE]
     
  10. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    [SIZE=11pt]Israel and the Church[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Reformed interpretation of Scripture has traditionally insisted, especially in opposition to what it has regarded as an Anabaptist (and dispensationalist) disjunction between old and new covenants, the continuity of a single covenant of grace, even to the point of referring to the new covenant church as an extension of the old covenant church. This accords with the language of kahal ("assembly," "congregation"), which the Greek version of the Old Testament translates: synagoge or ekklesia, which is then carried over into the New Testament designation for the people of God. Israel is the recipient of the laws and promises, the covenants of Sinai and Abraham, and whatever happens to extend the family is in fact an expansion rather than replacement of Israel. It is through the earthly, physical, ethnic Israel of God that the covenant of grace has unfolded throughout history and now reaches outward to all the nations and peoples of the world. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]The attitude of the New Testament is quite clear. Jews labor under the illusion that they have some sort of advantage in being descended from Abraham. In so thinking, they are thoroughly mistaken. Being descended from Abraham is no advantage whatsoever. God is able to declare anyone a child of Abraham; God is able from these stones to raise up children of Abraham. And Paul confirms this by pointing out that not all of Abraham's children were of Israel. Isaac was of Israel but Esau was not. So being a physical descendant of Abraham does not make one a child of the promise. By quoting the verses from Hosea, Paul says that God can take a people who are not chosen and make them chosen. God is not bound by genealogical considerations... This is presumably the church which is not a natural family characterized by descent from a common ancestor but an association of persons from many peoples united by a common faith.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]As Israel's exile testified, God had not reneged on his promise; Israel had reneged on hers. This point is as clear in the prophets as it is in Paul. God would still fulfill the purposes of his eternal election, however, and the Abrahamic promise envisioned this as the blessing that would come to all peoples through the Seed of Abraham and Sarah. That is: through Jesus. As with Eden, there is no way back to Sinai, but this is actually good news, since no one could be saved according to the righteousness of the law. The only way to be saved, and therefore, to belong to the true Israel of God, is to be "in Christ." At Mount Sinai, Israel responded to the conditional terms as one person: "All this we will do!", yet broke their covenant oath. At Mount Calvary, the True Israel, who had fulfilled the terms throughout his life, cried out, "It is finished!" [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]At the Synod of Jerusalem, this christocentric interpretation of election and redefinition of Israel in line with the prophetic texts was officially adopted and it was Peter who gave such eloquent testimony to this interpretation that Gentile believers, no less than Jews, are justified by grace through faith without any distinction. Acts 15:8-11 Circumcision counts for nothing: everything turns on faith in Christ, announced by the gospel. Romans 2:17-29[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]The attitude we must have toward ethnic Jews is that of Paul the Jewish apostle to the Gentiles, who would have willingly born Israel's "anathema" in her place. Romans 10:1-3[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]At the same time, we must remember that this anathema is not over Jews as Jews, but over all of humanity living apart from Christ. If we really follow through with the Pauline logic (maintained elsewhere in the New Testament, as it was throughout the prophets), there is no more guarantee that a particular visible church that bears the name Christian will not fail to have its candlestick removed should it live by any principle other than faith in Christ. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]It is therefore, not ultimately a question of whether one is a Jew or a Christian in terms of outward organization,[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] but of whether one is "inwardly circumcised”, that is: buried and raised with Christ. Jesus is not only the high Priest and mediator of the covenant; he is in his very person "a covenant to the people". Isaiah 42:6[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]The problem is that the Old Covenant that the people made with God at Sinai was being allowed to determine the answer to these questions:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt] How are we saved? By fulfilling the law. Who is Israel? Those who fulfill the law. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Paul held this view before his conversion, as a Pharisee and persecutor of the church, but on the Damascus Road everything was turned upside down when he encountered a vision of the very "cursed" one according to the law. cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree, triumphantly seated at the Father's right hand in glory. Now the questions receive different answers that are, in fact, perfectly consistent with the expectations of the prophets:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt] How are we saved?[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] We are saved in the same way that all of the saints in redemptive history were saved: by trusting in God's promised Messiah. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Who are the people of God?[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] The children of promise: those who share Abraham's faith. The heirs of the Sinai Covenant are those who are ethnic descendants of Abraham, circumcised in the flesh; the heirs of the Abrahamic covenant (fulfilled in the New Covenant) are: all people, Jew and Gentile, who are "in Christ" through faith alone, circumcised in their hearts.[/SIZE]
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    [SIZE=medium]Israel as God’s righteous nation:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Romans 11:25-26[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]when all the Gentile believers are come in..…the Deliverer will come and so all Israel shall be saved.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]But remember Romans 9:6-8[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]not all of ethnic Israel are truly the Israel of God…it is the children born from the Promise[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], [Jesus: His Christian believers.][/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]who are reckoned as Abrahams descendants.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Galatians 4:28 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Now you, my friends, like Isaac; are children of God’s Promise[/SIZE][SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=medium]We know that the ‘all of Israel’ must include those Christian believers who are grafted in, Romans 11:17, who are the true circumcision, the ‘real Jews’; Romans 2:29 [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]People from every race; nation and language, including Jews, all bought by the blood of Jesus. Revelation 5:9-10[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]We know that God did choose ethnic Israel to be His people and Jesus came to continue God’s Promises to the Patriarchs, Romans 15:8 [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]He came to save the lost sheep of Israel. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]But they rejected and killed Him, as the parable of the vineyard relates. Now the Gentiles glorify God for His mercy, Romans 15:9-13[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]The ethnic Israelites have lost their vantage ground because of this rejection and todays Jewish people, in the main, continue in this sin and they stand level with the rest of fallen humanity. The Cross has broken down the wall of separation between Israel and all other peoples, it has levelled all distinctions. Ephesians 2:14-18[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=medium]How can it be when there is now no special people, that in the last days, God could forgive the Jews their centuries of disbelief and now in the State of Israel, their prideful atheism, false religions and LGBT sins?[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Simply put: If God was to fulfil the promises He made to ancient Israel, to the current Jewish State of Israel, it would be entirely inconsistent with the truths of the New Testament and a denial of Jesus’ Words in John 3:16.[/SIZE]
     
  12. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    On "Worthy Christian Forums" keras admitted that his own pastor won't read his writings.

    If you want to read about Replacement theology, it's right above this post ^^^^^
     
  13. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Of course Pastors know nothing about Bible prophecy; it isn't taught to them. They only preach 'nice' things, like prosperity and escapism. Isaiah 56:9-12, Jeremiah 14:14-16

    If people want to understand how we Christians have been grafted into the true Israel of God and that there is now no separation between Jew and Gentile in Jesus, then read #271.
    But if you prefer to keep a separation between Jew and Gentile, in order for the Jews to stay on earth while the Church sits up in heaven, then stick to that other gospel; the rrrapture!
     
  14. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Stick to the Gospel. Rapture is in the BIble. The Great Multitude is in Heaven. The sun doesn't explode when God heals the wounds of His People, the Jews, whom He has inflicted during the time of His Wrath.
     
  15. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    A rapture removal to heaven of Christians before any disaster strikes, means:
    1/ God has changed His mind. Christians have been killed for their faith, from Stephen and still today. .
    This is impossible; Hebrews 13:8
    2/ His Plan to have His people in the holy Land has failed
    Impossible: Isaiah 14:24-32......the Lord will establish Zion and the meek and lowly of His people will find refuge there.
    3/ God's promises to the Patriarchs have failed.
    Impossible: Deuteronomy 19:8
    4/ Living people are instantly changed, without any trials.
    Impossible: 1 Peter 4:12, Rev 13:9

    Plus the fact that it is only by inference and supposition that rrrapture can be wrung out of scripture.
     
  16. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Nope.
    Nope.
    ​Nope.
    Nope.

    keras' pastor doesn't allow his study guides into his church for a very good reason.
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Marcus says:
    1/ God will change His mind.
    2/ His plans have failed.
    3/ God reneges on His promises to Abraham.
    ​4/ and Marcus is worthy to be instantly whisked to heaven.

    Do you have any followers for your teachings, Marcus?
     
  18. Just a Mirror

    Just a Mirror New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey Keras, THEY WILL BE SCORCHED BY THE SUN, but apparently not from a coronal mass ejection. :)
     
  19. Just a Mirror

    Just a Mirror New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    LOL, you guys argue over here too, thats funny, you guys make me smile, jeez
     
  20. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes Received:
    361
    The multitude in Heaven are those who have died in Christ,not raptured,these are those that return with Him...
     
Loading...