All Israel Will Be Saved

[Keraz]

But…if you ARE correct in how you see scripture unfolding here… doesn’t that just mean that a possible interpretation of Rom 11 is that those Jews who survive THAT will be ‘grafted back in’…and in THAT way, ‘all’ Israel will be saved? After all…at that stage, and in a ‘national’ sense, they WILL be ‘all’ Israel.

Right; and we see this in Isaiah 29:1-4, a graphic description of how the Lord will devastate all the Middle East region, and only a remnant of the Jews will survive by hiding underground. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 12:14, Romans 9:27

 

[n2thelight]

Nobody will be saved just because, I don't care who you are .
Oh and Christians are Israel.

 

[n2thelight]

Romans 11:7 "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded"

Israel is not the "election", for the "election" is within all races. They are the ones that made a stand in the first earth age. The "election" are the ones that have the eyes to see and the ears to hear and understand God's Word, while the rest were blinded. Those other's minds and hearts were hardened to the Scriptures, and the Word of God became foolishness to them. Yet, these elect are those "set aside ones" from Romans eight. They are the ones that were not deceived by Satan in the first earth age, nor will they be deceived in this earth age. In other Words these elect are the proven tested children of God. These elect are the ones that God can intercede in their lives, even without their asking Him for the help.

Why then were the others blinded to the Word, and harden their hearts?

Romans 11:8 "(According as it is written, "God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear";" unto this day."

Paul is telling us that the reason that the rest of the world is blind to the truth, is because it written in the Scripture. It is for the elect to take the time to check it out. This word "slumber" in the Greek, would better be translated "stupor". In the Greek it is "Katanuxis". God placed the spirit of stupor on all those that are not part of the elect. They are not asleep but they are in a stupor, and they just don't know what is going on, and they will not in this earth age.

Down through all generations, even to this final generation, those eyes will not see, and their ears will not hear and understand the Word of God. Why? Because God told us that this would happen way back in Isaiah 29:10; "For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath He covered."

God even gave this prophesy to Moses in Deuteronomy 29:4; "Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and hears to hear, unto this day."

The "heart to perceive", is the mind to understand. By the hardening of the heart of those that would not believe, God caused that whole generation of Moses day to die in the wilderness and not go into the promise land, because of their disbelief. The only ones to enter into the promised land were the young, and the two that did have faith in God's ability to give Israel the victory. Those two were Joshua and Caleb.

What God is telling us then in Romans 11:8, is that even when it looks like the whole population has sunk into this stupor, and hardness of heart; God as reserved His elect to Himself, and they will be protected and know the truth in their mind and not be deceived. This applies to every generation, to Moses time, Isaiah's generation, to Paul's age, and also to us in this final generation.

Just as Moses roamed the wilderness for an entire generation of forty years, and when the generation of the stupor died off; then all the youth that had matured, entered that promise land in victory. There is a generation that will spiritually die off, and fall to the point of this spiritual stupor. Then upon the arrival of the Antichrist [Satan] and his locust army of fallen angels, every last one to them will be deceived and worship the Antichrist in ignorance, thinking him to be the true Christ.

They will do this in their ignorant stupor, because they willingly listened to their false prophets, religious leaders and religious seers, as they spouted off their traditions of men. God's elect that He has set aside will not in that stupor, for they will know the Antichrist for who He is. The elect are prepared because God has opened their minds. God will give His elect a mind that will see what is going on before them, and hear the word and know the truth from deception. Upon the return of Jesus Christ they will be ready to enter the Millennium age as victors, and not in shame.

 

[n2thelight]

Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."

The blindness is the stupor that God sent upon those that cannot understand the plan of God, and see the prophetic signs around them. Remember Luke 21:24; "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." Christ is going to return to earth at the fullness of the Gentiles.

What happens then?

Romans 11:26 "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"

Romans 11:27 "For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

This happens at the end of the Millennium age, not now, nor in the flesh. Why will this be? Because in the Millennium age all souls will be in their incorruptible bodies, and they will know Satan for what he is, as liar and deceiver, and they will have known Jesus Christ personally for that thousand year period.

Romans 11:28 "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes."

Concerning the gospel from the standpoint of Israel's enemies, they are in a blind stupor. As for the election, God protects them because the elect are the ones that bring forth the truth.

So why does God bring this blindness and stupor on many people? Any sin committed in ignorance, or blindness is not a sin before the Father. That is why we shall have the Millennium, and we will have the thousand years of teaching and discipline. It is written in Revelation 20:5; "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

Dead here takes on a different name, it means they are spiritually dead, and their souls are still mortal [or liable to die] even though their body is incorruptible and will not age.

According to this all Israel will still see and recognize Christ at the end of the Millennium. However, there will be some other people that will not, and they will fall for Satan's deceptions when Satan is released for a season at the end of the Millennium age. In other words, Because of God's love for some people, He will blind them and put them into a stupor in this earth flesh age, to protect them from committing a sin that is unforgivable, during the time of the Antichrist. This is why you will never get them to see the truth no matter how hard you try, for it for their protection that this stupor comes.

This is also why we should be very patient while we are planting the seeds of the gospel. Some people are blind to the simplicity that Christ taught, as to the order of events, and the many other prophecies that are even now taking place daily before our eyes. It is not for us to judge these souls that God has placed in this stupor, for only God will do the judging, and that time of judgment comes only after the Millennium age.

romans11

 

[Timtofly]

Nobody will be saved just because, I don't care who you are .
Oh and Christians are Israel.

Christians are Christ. Hebrews are Israel. Christ is not a synonym of Israel.

There is no Scripture declaring those in Christ are to be called those in Israel. Israel was the branch that was cast off from Christ. The Gentiles are the wild branch grafted in. There are still two branches. Not a branch that morphed into a different branch. Israel can still be a part of the church. But Israel as a natural branch will not be put back until after the Second Coming. Israel is not the wild branch currently grafted into Christ. Israel is waiting for her redeemer to return.

Many people do not accept two branches. They only want a single group in Christ. So they blur the lines and change what is already a metaphor given by Paul. It is Paul who made the distinction. Paul also warned the Gentile branch to not get too comfortable. They could be removed just as easily, and Israel could be put back just as easily. Paul wrote in a metaphor to show the distinction. To say there is none, is missing the point Paul was presenting.

In Christ, God is no respector of such boundaries. Outside of Christ, God still sees Israel as a natural branch, and the Gentiles as a wild branch. The whole tree is not Israel, it is Christ. One branch is Israel, the other branch are the Gentiles, not Israel. God will not turn any away who come to Christ.

 

[n2thelight]

Christians are Christ. Hebrews are Israel. Christ is not a synonym of Israel.

There is no Scripture declaring those in Christ are to be called those in Israel. Israel was the branch that was cast off from Christ. The Gentiles are the wild branch grafted in. There are still two branches. Not a branch that morphed into a different branch. Israel can still be a part of the church. But Israel as a natural branch will not be put back until after the Second Coming. Israel is not the wild branch currently grafted into Christ. Israel is waiting for her redeemer to return.

Many people do not accept two branches. They only want a single group in Christ. So they blur the lines and change what is already a metaphor given by Paul. It is Paul who made the distinction. Paul also warned the Gentile branch to not get too comfortable. They could be removed just as easily, and Israel could be put back just as easily. Paul wrote in a metaphor to show the distinction. To say there is none, is missing the point Paul was presenting.

In Christ, God is no respector of such boundaries. Outside of Christ, God still sees Israel as a natural branch, and the Gentiles as a wild branch. The whole tree is not Israel, it is Christ. One branch is Israel, the other branch are the Gentiles, not Israel. God will not turn any away who come to Christ.

Wow you just screwed that all up.

 

[Truth7t7]

Right; and we see this in Isaiah 29:1-4, a graphic description of how the Lord will devastate all the Middle East region, and only a remnant of the Jews will survive by hiding underground. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 12:14, Romans 9:27

The remnant will be fed "Manna" from heaven in the wilderness as the world watches, your claim they are "underground" in hiding isn't found in scripture

The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation

You will closely note Micah 7:13-18 is a detailed description of Revelation 12:6, the Remnant will be in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, and Gilead, they will be fed "Manna" from heaven as in the days of coming out of Egypt, the world will watch in "Fear" of the Lord's power

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:13-18KJV
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

 

[Keraz]

The remnant will be fed "Manna" from heaven in the wilderness as the world watches, your claim they are "underground" in hiding isn't found in scripture

Did you read Isaiah 29:1-4?
It says that the Christian Jewish survivors of the Lords Day of fiery wrath will hide underground and their voices will 'squeak' out from there, when its all over. They will be the remnant; Romans 9:27
So; you not only don't know the prophesies very well and you fail to even look up verses that prove my points.

Micah 7:13-18 is a parallel passage to Isaiah 29:1-4, but Revelation 12:6 is not.
Rev 12, describes how the faithful Christians will be kept safe during the final 42 months of this age, when Satan will have world control. Revelation 13:5-8

 

[Keraz]

Many people do not accept two branches.

No we don't, because Jesus said that He had only ONE people. John 17:20-23, +

 

[Truth7t7]

Did you read Isaiah 29:1-4?
It says that the Christian Jewish survivors of the Lords Day of fiery wrath will hide underground and their voices will 'squeak' out from there, when its all over. They will be the remnant; Romans 9:27
So; you not only don't know the prophesies very well and you fail to even look up verses that prove my points.

Micah 7:13-18 is a parallel passage to Isaiah 29:1-4, but Revelation 12:6 is not.
Rev 12, describes how the faithful Christians will be kept safe during the final 42 months of this age, when Satan will have world control. Revelation 13:5-8

Isaiah 29:1-4 is speaking of the "Unsaved" that God is against, Ariel/Jerusalem

The scripture below has absolutely nothing to do with the "Remnant", let alone them being underground and hiding

Isaiah 29:1-4KJV
1 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

 

[Keraz]

Isaiah 29:1-4 is speaking of the "Unsaved" that God is against, Ariel/Jerusalem

The scripture below has absolutely nothing to do with the "Remnant", let alone them being underground and hiding

Isaiah 29:1-4 is a prophecy or the Jewish State of Israel. All the ungodly citizens will die. Isaiah 22:14
Isaiah 29:5-8 tells us about the fate of the Islamic confederation that will attack Israel. Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12

Verse 4 is a clear description of the Jewish Christian remnant, who will take shelter in bunkers.
Your denials of plainly stated Bible prophecy, is seriously wrong.

 

[Truth7t7]

Isaiah 29:1-4 is a prophecy or the Jewish State of Israel. All the ungodly citizens will die. Isaiah 22:14
Isaiah 29:5-8 tells us about the fate of the Islamic confederation that will attack Israel. Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12

Verse 4 is a clear description of the Jewish Christian remnant, who will take shelter in bunkers.
Your denials of plainly stated Bible prophecy, is seriously wrong.

Verse four below says nothing about the Remnant or being underground in hiding as you claim, it appears your seeing things again

Isaiah 29:1-4KJV
1 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

 

[Truth7t7]

Verse four below says nothing about the Remnant or being underground in hiding as you claim, it appears your seeing things again

Will the saved "Remnant" act as if they have a familiar spirit in "Evil" No

Isaiah 29:1-4KJV
1 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

 

[Guestman]

Are the fleshly Jews still God's people ? No, for three days before Jesus was executed on a stake at the demands of the Jewish religious leaders, he said this about them while in the temple area: "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses.......All the works they do, they do to be seen by men, for they broaden the scripture-containing cases that they wear as safeguards and lengthen the fringes of their garments. They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men."(Matt 23:2, 5-7)

Jesus now "rakes them over the coals", scathingly denouncing them by saying to the scribes and Pharisees: "Serpents, offspring of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of Ge·henʹna (or everlasting destruction, same as "the lake of fire", Rev 20:14, 15) ? For this reason, I am sending to you prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them you will kill and execute on stakes, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, so that there may come upon you (or Judaism as part of the global false religious empire called Babylon the Great, Rev 17:5) all the righteous blood spilled on earth (that Babylon the Great has brought, being massively blood guilty, Rev 18:24), from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom you murdered (or having the same murderous attitude as the Jews did during the reign of King Jehoash [898 -858 B.C.E.], who authorized the murder of Zechariah, 2 Chron 24:17-22) between the sanctuary and the altar."(Matt 23:33-35)

Now Jesus comes to the climax, telling the entire nation of fleshly Israel: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem (representing the nation), the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings ! But you did not want it. Look ! Your house (or the temple in Jerusalem) is abandoned to you. For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name !’”(Matt 23:37-39; Note: Jesus quoted from Ps 118:26, using God's name of Jehovah)

So, the nation of fleshly Israel was rejected, but a "remnant" was saved, for some Jews exercised faith in Jesus as the promised Messiah, while the rest of the nation of fleshly Israel did not.(Rom 9:27; see also Isa 10:22, 23) The apostle Paul wrote: "For I bear them (the fleshly Jews) witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge. For because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God."(Rom 10:2, 3)

The nation of fleshly Israel failed to "become my (or Jehovah God's) special property out of all peoples", failing to "become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation".(Ex 19:5, 6) As a result, Jehovah brought into the "fold" (John 10:16a) of 144,000 imperfect people (Rev 14:1-3) who are chosen for "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation", who are "being counted worthy of the Kingdom of God" (2 Thess 1:5), Gentiles or "people of the nations".(Rom 11:11)

When Jehovah began accepting Gentiles into the "fold" of 144,000 chosen ones for a heavenly government called God's Kingdom with Cornelius and his family being baptized in 36 C.E. (Acts 10), the apostle Paul said that "at that time you (or Gentiles) were without Christ, alienated from the state of Israel, strangers to the covenants of the promise; you had no hope and were without God in the world. But now in union with Christ Jesus, you who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ. For he is our peace, the one who made the two groups (Jew and Gentile) one and destroyed the (symbolic) wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity (or hatred), the Law of commandments consisting in decrees (or Mosaic Law covenant), in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man and to make peace, and to reconcile fully both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself."(Eph 2:12-16)

These "two groups in union with himself " became "the Israel of God" (Gal 6:16), a new nation that would produce the "fruits" or righteous behavior of the Kingdom.(Matt 21:43; see also Matt 16:27)

 

[Keraz]

The Great Chapter of Isaiah 29:1-24
In a chronological order;

What will happen very soon:

Suddenly, in an instant punishment will come from the heavens. The Lord will act in His wrath against all those who make war against Jerusalem, all those who surround Israel. With a great noise amid flames of devouring fire, earthquakes and powerful storms, they will disappear like a dream, like a vision of the night – gone when you awake. So it will be with the horde of nations who attack the holy Land. They will crumble into dust and be blown away like chaff. Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12, Revelation 6:12-17 This is quite a different event from Armageddon, it is the many prophesied Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, a literal day of a Coronal Mass Ejection sunspot explosion. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, 2 Peter 3:7

But, disaster will come to those who live in the Land, there will be mourning and tears when the Lord makes Jerusalem His fire altar. He will bring those people down, the survivors will hide underground, their voices will squeak out of the earth. Isaiah 31:5, Zechariah 13:8-9

The Lord’s people – Jews and Christians:

Because My people worship Me with empty words and pay Me lip service, while their hearts are far from Me and their religion is but human doctrines learnt by rote, therefore I shall shock them again and again. The wisdom of their learned people will vanish and all discernment will be lost. Matthew 11:25-26

Woe to those who try to hide their devious plans from the Lord. All those who say: Who can see what we do? Who knows our plans? Do not think your Maker is unaware of your doings, you are placing yourself higher than Him, if you think that. 1 Peter 3:12

Belief in wrong teaching leads to an inability to understand the truth:

If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused, if you blind yourself, you will stay blinded. Be drunk, but not with strong drink, for the Lord has poured upon you a spirit of deep stupor. He has closed your eyes to prophetic understanding and muffled your heads; your so called, wise teachers. For you the Prophetic vision of the end times is like a sealed book that you cannot read. Isaiah 6:9-10, Acts 13:41

The Word of the Lord to the descendants of Abraham, all the true Christian people of God:

This is no time for you to be distressed, not a time for you to be frightened, for you will praise and worship My Name, [Jesus] when you see what has been done in your midst. [1 Peter 1:5] You will hold sacred your Redeemer and regard your God with awe. THEN the confused will understand and those who refused instruction will believe the truth. Isaiah 32:3-4

The holy Land Regenerated: Ezekiel 36:8

In a very short time Lebanon [and all of the holy Land] will be brought back from ruin to like a garden land and good fertile land will be as common as scrubland is now. Joel 3:18

The Lord will send rain immediately after the terrible fires and earthquakes of the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, as described in Isaiah 30:25, Isaiah 35:1-10

The veil of misunderstanding will be lifted then: Isaiah 32:4

On that Day the deaf will hear with understanding the Words of scripture and the spiritually blinded will see the truth. The lowly will once again rejoice in the Lord and the poor will exult in the Holy One of Israel. For the ungodly and the arrogant will cease to exist. Those who are quick to find mischief and those who falsely accuse others or lay traps for the unwary; all these will be cut down and perish. Isaiah 66:17, 2 Peter 3:7

The Great Exodus of the Lord’s righteous people to their inheritance:

On that Day, [NOT the Return, but at the next prophesied event.] the Lord will exert His power a second time to recover the remnant of His people from wherever they are scattered around the world. Isaiah 49:12-13, Isaiah 66:20 He will make a sign to the nations and gather those dispersed of the House of Israel, [now the Christian peoples] He will assemble Judah’s scattered people and the enmity between Israel and Judah will cease. Ezekiel 37:13-28 Ref. REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.

 

[Davy]

What you see signifies nothing. The most important is what GOD see between you and me. JESUS left very very clear, saying: Fear Him -GOD- which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell, understand?


What Paul the apostle said (and he is not a false prophet) is that in this Day, the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, "GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by JESUS Christ according his gospel-Paul's gospel- Rom.2:16-, and here is what says the gospel preached by Paul Apostle:
" After your hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of wrath and REVELATION of the righteous Judgment of God. Who will render to every man according to his deeds: Unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth-the Word of GOD is Truth-, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION AND WRATH; Yeah - Tribulation and Anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile; For there is no respect of persons with God " - Rom.2:v.5-11.

Who Judges the people of Israel is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. Regarding the vessels made unto dishonour they will be cast into the hell's fire by the own GOD-the Word is GOD- according the gospel of Paul Apostle, that says: "What if God willing to show His WRATH, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to DESTRUCTION." Except the very SMALL REMNANT, the 144K-Isaiah 1:v.9 and Revelation 14:v.1- , all the vessels of dishonour of Israel will be cast into the lake of fire by the own GOD-the Word is GOD-, He is able to destroy both soul and body in hell, understand? This will fulfil LITERALLY from now on, and the chastisement will for everlasting time, according GOD's Word, according the righteous Judgment of GOD.

Revelation 14:v.18-19
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the WRATH of GOD.

Be careful or get ready

According to your false belief, the following Scripture means nothing to you...

1 Tim 1:12-13
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, Who hath enabled me, for that He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
KJV

 

[Truth7t7]

When Jehovah began accepting Gentiles into the "fold" of 144,000 chosen ones for a heavenly government called God's Kingdom with Cornelius and his family being baptized in 36 C.E. (Acts 10), the apostle Paul said that "at that time you (or Gentiles) were without Christ, alienated from the state of Israel, strangers to the covenants of the promise; you had no hope and were without God in the world. But now in union with Christ Jesus, you who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ. For he is our peace, the one who made the two groups (Jew and Gentile) one and destroyed the (symbolic) wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity (or hatred), the Law of commandments consisting in decrees (or Mosaic Law covenant), in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man and to make peace, and to reconcile fully both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself."(Eph 2:12-16)

These "two groups in union with himself " became "the Israel of God" (Gal 6:16), a new nation that would produce the "fruits" or righteous behavior of the Kingdom.(Matt 21:43; see also Matt 16:27)

Sounds like Jehovahs Witness doctrine, in the 144,000 chosen ones, ruling in heaven around Gods throne?

Are you Jehovah's Witness?

 

[Timtofly]

Wow you just screwed that all up.

So you believe in Jacob, and not Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ is not Israel. Jesus Christ was born as an Israelite. Jesus claimed, I am the vine, ye are the branches. Why would Paul claim otherwise in his symbolism?

 

[Keraz]

Jesus Christ is not Israel. Jesus Christ was born as an Israelite. Jesus claimed, I am the vine, ye are the branches.

Timtofly; Jesus said He was the vine, the means He is the source, the trunk; what the branches are attached to.
Jesus is the true Israel, the Overcomer of Satan for God, therefore we Christians are the true Israelites.

There is no other Israel. Only a mixed race people, who make the wrongful claim of calling their nation Israel. They will be punished when the Lord sends His fiery wrath. Amos 2:4-5, Zephaniah 1:1-18 + and only a Christian remnant will survive.

 

[GEN2REV]

@Davy

You never answered my question in the other thread that you just stopped responding to.

Question:
Do you believe there will be Jews who live in sin all their lives and then at the very last moment, when Jesus returns, they will be made to see the Truth and forgiven and saved despite all their iniquity?