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Featured All the ELECT please stand up

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by CNKW3, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    Verses like the one you just posted solidifies my reformed beliefs. If God has begun the work, He will finish it. That’s why I am reformed. If He started a work in everybody w/o exception, then universalism is correct and no one goes to the lake of fire. That is why salvation is of the Lord(Jonah 2:9). If it was left up to us to seal the deal, we’d blow it.
     
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  2. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    And please don’t take it that is was being snarky and/or condescending towards you. That was NOT my intentions at all. I was just giving you a friendly correction. Many conflate omniscience with foreknowledge and they’re not the same thing.
     
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  3. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    Do you agree with this?


    Chapter 3: Of God's Decree

    1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree. ( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )


    2. Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions. ( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )


    3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice. ( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )


    4. These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished. ( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )


    5. Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto. ( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )


    6. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only. ( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )


    7. The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel. ( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )


    This is taken from the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith.


    1689 Baptist Confession
     
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  4. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    No I want to be corrected....thank you...it is kinder to correct than leave one ignorant of their mistakes!:)
     
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  5. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm. I don't know. You were like the great white snark, reminded me of Jaws coming in the water with that music "duh dun duh dun duh dun!" :D:p;)
     
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  6. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    As long as I am not accused of jumping the shark...but I’d first have to have been relevant, which I’ve never been.
     
  7. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    But not His elect. :)
     
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  8. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    I 100% believe we are sealed in our salvation.
    God himself spoke to me years ago and freed me from condemnation...
     
  9. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I believe that God has a special love which is directed only to the elect. A different, more deep love than that He has for the general population.
     
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    But do you agree with predestination and election? Just curious. Thanks in advance.
     
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    But does God love everyone is his question towards you.
     
  12. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    .... Yes, in the sense of creation. He generally loves all as His creatures, but to His elect He has a very special, drastically more deep love for those whom he foreknew, predestined, and justified.

    Thanks for letting me know! I didn't catch that
     
  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    Seeing that God is immutable, how can He go from loving the non-elect to loving them? This is where I think ppl confuse longsuffering with love. He is looking longsuffering with the vessels of wrath, meaning He is patient with them, until the last vessel of mercy is saved, and then His wrath will be poured out on the vessels of wrath.

    Please explain how you see God loving the non-elect, then pouring His wrath out on them. Wouldn’t this be a change in His character, thereby negating His immutability? Please expound. Thanks a bushel.
     
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  14. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    Longsuffering is a far better term, I agree. That is what I meant when I said He loves them in the sense of Creation; He is patient with them. I should have worded it better. What I meant was that God shows His love towards His creation by being patient, Kind, and gracious even to the sinners; allowing the rain to fall on the just and unjust.

    It most certainly would be a change in His character if He loved them in the sense of His love for the elect, but what I meant by "loves" them is that, due strictly to His goodness as a Creator, He is patient, kind and gracious to even those that hate Him.

    I totally agree with the above post.... my wording was just a bit off. Thanks a ton, brother!
     
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  15. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    But would longsuffering be considered love? What do you think?
     
  16. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    Given time to think about it a bit, no not really. It is loving, but I believe loving and actually having love for something/someone are different.
     
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    Bingo! [​IMG]
     
  18. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    I am actually really glad you brought this up; not only does it help me to better word my future responses, but it also serves to show how to properly discuss things of the Word. Allowing Scripture/Biblical principles to correct you.
     
  19. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Seems to be a characteristic of love, 1 Corinthians 13:4.
     
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  20. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    For those who did not catch this, I need to make an amendment to this post.

    God is loving to those who are not His elect, but does not love them. My brother in the faith, @SovereignGrace , pointed this out to me, and I must agree. If He loved the unjust, it would not only be against His character, but would cause the unchanging God to change.

    I was in error [something that is not said nearly enough on this site], and am thankful for the input and help from my brothers.
     
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