All the ELECT please stand up

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CNKW3

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Here is an application of the word "IF":

IF
There were only 12 Apostles at supper with Jesus recorded in John chapters 13-17
AND
Jesus said "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper" recorded in John 14:16
AND
The Holy Spirit indwelled the 120 people at Pentecost recorded in Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:4
THEN
The "you" recorded in John chapters 13-17 spoken by Jesus is all disciples in all time of Jesus which includes the "you" when Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" recorded in John 15:16.
Power was not given to the 120 in acts 2. Who was the power promise made to in acts 1:8?
Will you answer that?

That was enlightening, so here is another application of the word "IF":

IF
There were additional disciples beyond the 12 Apostles at supper with Jesus recorded in John chapters 13-17
THEN
The "you" recorded in John chapters 13-17 spoken by Jesus is all disciples in all time of Jesus which includes the "you" when Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" recorded in John 15:16.

WOW, WOW, WOW!!! Regardless of approach, God is the One that chooses!

In case you failed to notice, regardless of "IF" clause approach above, your doctrine and theology are proven to be error, more accurately false accusation against the Living God. @Enoch111, this goes for you as well.

In your arrogance CKNW3, you insult Lord Jesus with your negative connotation "stand up" comment.

Jesus is Lord and God (John 20:28)!
whats with the “if”? Where is the “if” in the texts we are considering? Or are you just trying to create something. The passage says he “sat down with the twelve”. He did that at the Passover feast. IF IF IF you are correct the passage then implies everybody else stood up for the feast. IF NOT WHY NOT?
That would be ridiculous.
 
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GodsGrace

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Here is an application of the word "IF":

IF
There were only 12 Apostles at supper with Jesus recorded in John chapters 13-17
AND
Jesus said "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper" recorded in John 14:16
AND
The Holy Spirit indwelled the 120 people at Pentecost recorded in Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:4
THEN
The "you" recorded in John chapters 13-17 spoken by Jesus is all disciples in all time of Jesus which includes the "you" when Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" recorded in John 15:16.

That was enlightening, so here is another application of the word "IF":

IF
There were additional disciples beyond the 12 Apostles at supper with Jesus recorded in John chapters 13-17
THEN
The "you" recorded in John chapters 13-17 spoken by Jesus is all disciples in all time of Jesus which includes the "you" when Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" recorded in John 15:16.

WOW, WOW, WOW!!! Regardless of approach, God is the One that chooses!

In case you failed to notice, regardless of "IF" clause approach above, your doctrine and theology are proven to be error, more accurately false accusation against the Living God. @Enoch111, this goes for you as well.

In your arrogance CKNW3, you insult Lord Jesus with your negative connotation "stand up" comment.

Jesus is Lord and God (John 20:28)!

"The Righteous Sovereignty of God Post" (in this thread), "The Audience of Lord Jesus for John 14:16 and John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread), and "Matthias and Joseph in Exhibit 7 with the Lord Jesus and the Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread) contain the Truth.
John 15:16
16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.



John 15:26-27
26“When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
27and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.


WHO was with Jesus from the beginning?


The Apostles.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(16) Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.—Comp. Luke 6:12 et seq., and in this Gospel John 6:70; John 13:18. The thought of His love for them, which had exalted them from the position of slaves to friends, from fishermen to Apostles, is made to remind them again (John 15:17) of the duty of love to each other. In John 15:20 he reminds them of the words which accompanied His own act of humility in washing their feet (John 13:15-16). The chiefest Apostle owed all to His gift and election, and should be ready to sacrifice all for his brethren, as He Himself was.
And ordained you.—The word “ordained” has acquired a special sense in modern English which is here misleading, and it will be better, therefore, to read appointed.

That ye should go and bring forth fruit.—Comp. Matthew 13:44; Matthew 18:15; Matthew 19:21, for the idea of going away and doing something. It implies here the activity of the Apostles as distinct from that of Christ. Each one as a branch ever joined to Christ was to grow away from Him in the development of his own work, and was to bring forth his own fruit. The margin compares Matthew 28:19, probably, with the thought of their fulfilling the Apostle’s missionary work. This view has been commonly adopted, but it gives to the word “go’” a fulness of meaning which is scarcely warranted.
 
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Preacher4Truth

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yes, imo the...info, the data, is not being used for its revealing advantages or whatevver, yeh
Lol!!!! You're right though but not according to your meaning. Not one of those who've been refuted by our posts have used what was revealed, and accepted refutation.

BTW, nearly zero of your posts are true nor do they make sense. Several have told you the same thing. It appears in your attempt to impress others with your thoughts and blather, well, you've failed. The above is another example.

Anyhow, carry on. Hit me with some more non sequitur in retort!
 
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bbyrd009

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You're right though but not according to your meaning.
ah

Not one of those who've been refuted by our posts have used what was revealed, and accepted refutation.
nor should they i guess, they were just as right, right? That's what facts are for, after all

BTW, nearly zero of your posts are erue nor do they make sense.
ah, ok ty. I'll hafta take a look at that
Several have told you 5he same thing
camp is an awful comfy place huh bro
 

CharismaticLady

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AHHHH! Hahahaha...you sneaker you! Well then, WELCOME BACK not-first Century Lady Anymore :) Okay, @farouk It actually IS 1CL :D
Have not seen you on here in a bit so...we thought someone had just decided to use the same Avatar! Lol. Nice to see you on ♥

LOL I am also on Christianforums.com and got caught up in a debate there. Sometimes they don't see me for some time if I get caught up in a debate on here? I do check both, but kinda go by my alerts. If you find a good subject here add " cc: @CharismaticLady " at the end of your post and I'll get an alert. By the way. I love you too!:)
 
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CharismaticLady

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@Soverign Grace , @Preacher4Truth , @Kermos

Let me see if I can understand whether you are of God or not by what you believe about willful sins of lawlessness. Here is a Statement from Martin Luther: "(For those in Christ) even if we were to commit murder and adultery 1000 times a day it would not separate us from God." Of course, this is after they believe they are saved and OSAS, not Universalism.

Do you believe as Martin Luther whose statement evolved into the OSAS doctrine, or not. Can someone be assured of salvation if they willfully sin like that with no repentance? Are they the "elect"?
 
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Nancy

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LOL I am also on Christianforums.com and got caught up in a debate there. Sometimes they don't see me for some time if I get caught up in a debate on here? I do check both, but kinda go by my alerts. If you find a good subject here add " cc: @CharismaticLady " at the end of your post and I'll get an alert. By the way. I love you too!:)
♥♥ :) I will do that!
 

GodsGrace

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Here is an application of the word "IF":

IF
There were only 12 Apostles at supper with Jesus recorded in John chapters 13-17
AND
Jesus said "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper" recorded in John 14:16
AND
The Holy Spirit indwelled the 120 people at Pentecost recorded in Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:4
THEN
The "you" recorded in John chapters 13-17 spoken by Jesus is all disciples in all time of Jesus which includes the "you" when Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" recorded in John 15:16.

That was enlightening, so here is another application of the word "IF":

IF
There were additional disciples beyond the 12 Apostles at supper with Jesus recorded in John chapters 13-17
THEN
The "you" recorded in John chapters 13-17 spoken by Jesus is all disciples in all time of Jesus which includes the "you" when Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" recorded in John 15:16.

WOW, WOW, WOW!!! Regardless of approach, God is the One that chooses!

In case you failed to notice, regardless of "IF" clause approach above, your doctrine and theology are proven to be error, more accurately false accusation against the Living God. @Enoch111, this goes for you as well.

In your arrogance CKNW3, you insult Lord Jesus with your negative connotation "stand up" comment.

Jesus is Lord and God (John 20:28)!

"The Righteous Sovereignty of God Post" (in this thread), "The Audience of Lord Jesus for John 14:16 and John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread), and "Matthias and Joseph in Exhibit 7 with the Lord Jesus and the Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread) contain the Truth.
Hi Kermos,

Are you going to reply to my post no. 542?

Your answer will be interesting.
:)
 
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Kermos

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Power was not given to the 120 in acts 2. Who was the power promise made to in acts 1:8?
Will you answer that?

whats with the “if”? Where is the “if” in the texts we are considering? Or are you just trying to create something. The passage says he “sat down with the twelve”. He did that at the Passover feast. IF IF IF you are correct the passage then implies everybody else stood up for the feast. IF NOT WHY NOT?
That would be ridiculous.
Apparently you have a problem with mathematics, now it's set theory. The Apostles are also disciples. Indicating early in Acts chapter 1 that the Apostles are present DOES NOT preclude the presence of other disciples who were with the Apostles "all the time" (Acts 1:21-23).

Nonetheless, the 120 received power when the Holy Spirit came upon them at the time of Pentecost (Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:4) the one hundred twenty had power to speak in other tongues!

You hit a dead-end with the second "IF" premise and conclusion because the conclusion indisputably proves your heretical teaching of death.

You are dead (nekros) wrong in your claim that we believers do not have the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, you are dead. @GodsGrace this goes for you too since you "like" CKNW3's deceitful posting.

These remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
 
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GodsGrace

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Apparently you have a problem with mathematics, now it's set theory. The Apostles are also disciples. Indicating early in Acts chapter 1 that the Apostles are present DOES NOT preclude the presence of other disciples who were with the Apostles "all the time" (Acts 1:21-23).

Nonetheless, the 120 received power when the Holy Spirit came upon them at the time of Pentecost (Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:4) the one hundred twenty had power to speak in other tongues!

You hit a dead-end with the second "IF" premise and conclusion because the conclusion indisputably proves your heretical teaching of death.

You are dead (nekros) wrong in your claim that we believers do not have the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, you are dead. @GodsGrace this goes for you too since you "like" CKNW3's deceitful posting.

These remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
Kermos....
I'm not too interested in your OPINION.

I gave you scripture that shows that Jesus was speaking to those that were with Him FROM THE BEGINNING.
John 15:26-27

Apostles were Apostles....the 12.
Disciples were those that followed Jesus. Some stayed with Him and some left Him....the Apostles STAYED with Him.

As I stated...the ones that were with Him from the beginning were the Apostles.

Could you please show me from scripture that Jesus was NOT speaking to the Apostles in John 15:16...

Thanks.

P.S. I'll appreciate your keeping these posts based on scripture and not make personal comments to me telling me that I'm dead.

YOU do not know who is dead in spirit and who is alive in spirit.
In fact, I'd say that since you believe God chose You,,,,
you can't even be sure YOU are saved.

But that's for God to decide.
 
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GodsGrace

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Apparently you have a problem with mathematics, now it's set theory. The Apostles are also disciples. Indicating early in Acts chapter 1 that the Apostles are present DOES NOT preclude the presence of other disciples who were with the Apostles "all the time" (Acts 1:21-23).

Nonetheless, the 120 received power when the Holy Spirit came upon them at the time of Pentecost (Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:4) the one hundred twenty had power to speak in other tongues!

You hit a dead-end with the second "IF" premise and conclusion because the conclusion indisputably proves your heretical teaching of death.

You are dead (nekros) wrong in your claim that we believers do not have the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, you are dead. @GodsGrace this goes for you too since you "like" CKNW3's deceitful posting.

These remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
P.S.
Some scripture showing that God chose US would also be appreciated.
 
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SovereignGrace

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The fact that we can't know exactly why any one person has NOT accepted God,,,is no reason to believe that God chooses who will be saved and who will not.

When you start with fallen man and reason up to God, you can not answer these questions. We, the reformed, know exactly why some accept and some don’t. It’s called predestination and election, which many scoff at.

God reveals Himself to all men..from the beginning of time,
Romans 1:19-20.

Not savingly. That passage deals with man’s fallen state outside of the Christ. It starts with For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,[Romans 1:18] Paul’s starts it off with God’s wrath being revealed on the wicked. Why? because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.[Romans 1:19] God revealed Himself to them, the wicked who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, and they did this For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.[Romans 1:21-23] God revealed Himself to them and they have then attributed what He has done to idols.

Now, let’s back up to Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Ppl are w/o excuse. Ppl are responsible for their sins, even if they’ve never had a bible, had someone tell them about the Christ. Faith comes via the word of God, not natural revelation. If so, then we have no need for the Great Commission. Hyper-Calvinists use Romans 1:18-23 for proof God saves His elect even without hearing the gospel. So, you’re railing against Calvinism and supporting Hyper-Calvinism.

Jesus Himself said that most will follow the wide path to the wide gate....
that leads to destruction. He also tells us that we should enter by the narrow gate that leads to life and few there be that find it.

WE have to find the narrow gate....
No need for Jesus to speak the above words if the CHOICE was not up to us.

Mathew 7:13-14
13“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.


Where in the above verses does it state that GOD will get us either into the narrow gate or the wide gate?

God is the One who seeks. Here is where the Christ said this...

”What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.[Matthew 18:12-14] Notice how it is the Shepherd who sought the sheep, not vice versa. Not only does He seek, but finds them, and effectively brings them back to the fold.

And one last place...

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”[John 10:-27-30] Not only does He seek His sheep, He finds them, brings them to the fold. But that’s not all. Wherever He goes, He leads them, and they follow Him.

But I am sure you’ve already rejected this from the first sentence.
 
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Preacher4Truth

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Some scripture showing that God chose US would also be appreciated.

Like a verse that says something like "I God chose Godgrace and kermos to salvation?" You're making a logical fallacy the precedent and then making it have to be proven for you to believe it. That's rather imprudent of you.

We derive from Scripture the revelation of God, and his dealings with man. In particular we're talking now of eternal salvation.

God chose Abram; Genesis 12 to Genesis 15. This is the template on how God chooses all men to salvation, since his ways in salvation do not change. Romans 4 backs this up.

John 15:16 we see this same immutable way of God.

Ephesians 1 we see it again.

1 Thessalonians 1:4 we see it again.

2 Thessalonians 2:13, yet again.

Titus 1:1, we see Paul expressing their being chosen/elected by God.

Romans 8:26ff we see Paul calling those saved elect, and the balance of the chapter is to these alone.

1 Peter 1:1ff we see the same thing, yet again.

2 Peter 1:1; 2 Peter 1:10 we see the same thing, yet again.

We see the principle of this in Matthew 11:25-30.

We see the truth of being chosen in 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

We see this as well in 2 Peter 3:9 where God is patiently awaiting his elect to come to salvation via repentance.

There are many more Scriptures that show this to be true. God saves in the same way throughout time. He chose to save his elect before the foundation of the world. These Scriptures could not be any more clear.
 
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CNKW3

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Apparently you have a problem with mathematics, now it's set theory. The Apostles are also disciples. Indicating early in Acts chapter 1 that the Apostles are present DOES NOT preclude the presence of other disciples who were with the Apostles "all the time" (Acts 1:21-23).

Nonetheless, the 120 received power when the Holy Spirit came upon them at the time of Pentecost (Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:4) the one hundred twenty had power to speak in other tongues!

You hit a dead-end with the second "IF" premise and conclusion because the conclusion indisputably proves your heretical teaching of death.

You are dead (nekros) wrong in your claim that we believers do not have the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, you are dead. @GodsGrace this goes for you too since you "like" CKNW3's deceitful posting.

These remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
Acts 1:2-5 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Who did he choose? THE APOSTLES. This is Bible commentary on John 15. “I chose you”.

To whom (who is the whom? The antecedent is APOSTLES) also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days,
Who is “them”. Points right back to APOSTLES. This is all the same context.

and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: And, being assembled together with them,
Them who? The APOSTLES. We are still in the same context..

commanded them (the APOSTLES) that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
The promise was to who? THE APOSTLES. I don’t need mathematics. I can read.
The 120 was nowhere in this context.
Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee,
Men of Galilee? There were women in the 120. We are still in the same context. He is speaking to the apostles and apostles only.

And the ones who received the Spirit in acts 2 were ALL from Galilee. 2:7. It was not the 120.
If I were to use mathematics all I would need to do is add 2+2 and that =4.
If this was a court of law this case would now be thrown out.
 
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Kermos

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Kermos....
I'm not too interested in your OPINION.

I gave you scripture that shows that Jesus was speaking to those that were with Him FROM THE BEGINNING.
John 15:26-27

Apostles were Apostles....the 12.
Disciples were those that followed Jesus. Some stayed with Him and some left Him....the Apostles STAYED with Him.

As I stated...the ones that were with Him from the beginning were the Apostles.

Could you please show me from scripture that Jesus was NOT speaking to the Apostles in John 15:16...

Thanks.

P.S. I'll appreciate your keeping these posts based on scripture and not make personal comments to me telling me that I'm dead.

YOU do not know who is dead in spirit and who is alive in spirit.
In fact, I'd say that since you believe God chose You,,,,
you can't even be sure YOU are saved.

But that's for God to decide.
First things first, the 12 Apostles are a subset of the disciples as this passage from Luke bears witness:

And when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as apostles:
(Luke 6:13)

Second things second, let's see who was with Jesus "FROM THE BEGINNING".

You mentioned John 15:26-27 which based on scripture includes the disciples mentioned Acts 1:21-23 as both mention passages indicate "FROM THE BEGINNING".

Third things third, this means that there were more disciples than the 12 Apostles with Lord Jesus "FROM THE BEGINNING".

Fourth things fourth, I never wrote that Jesus was not talking to the 12 Apostles in John 15:16, and I'm not arguing that now.

Fifth things fifth, I would appreciate that you stop twisting scripture.

Sixth things sixth, I would appreciate you stop misrepresenting the posts that I've made - implying that I've not quoted scripture on this very matter when I've done so extensively but you decline to read the posts that I asked you politely to read. Not only have I cited scripture, but I've done so in THE VERY POST TO WHICH YOU REPLIED.

Seventh things seventh, you pervert the words of the living God, the LORD of Hosts, our God (Jeremiah 23:36).

You hit a dead-end with the second "IF" premise and conclusion because the conclusion indisputably proves your heretical teaching of death.

You are dead (nekros) wrong in your claim that we believers do not have the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, you are dead.

Your interpretation is dead wrong that people can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

These remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
 
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Kermos

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Acts 1:2-5
...snip
You are in the discipline of delusion. I have provided you sufficient scriptural proof that you are in error.

IF
There were only 12 Apostles at supper with Jesus recorded in John chapters 13-17
AND
Jesus said "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper" recorded in John 14:16
AND
The Holy Spirit indwelled the 120 people at Pentecost recorded in Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:4
THEN
The "you" recorded in John chapters 13-17 spoken by Jesus is all disciples in all time of Jesus which includes the "you" when Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" recorded in John 15:16.

IF
There were additional disciples beyond the 12 Apostles at supper with Jesus recorded in John chapters 13-17
THEN
The "you" recorded in John chapters 13-17 spoken by Jesus is all disciples in all time of Jesus which includes the "you" when Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" recorded in John 15:16.

Either way, when Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), it applies to all believers in all time.

Because you can not choose Jesus, you are only left with choosing a false god or more accurately demons.

Here are the proof texts:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)
 
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SovereignGrace

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Let me see if I can understand whether you are of God or not by what you believe about willful sins of lawlessness. Here is a Statement from Martin Luther: "(For those in Christ) even if we were to commit murder and adultery 1000 times a day it would not separate us from God." Of course, this is after they believe they are saved and OSAS, not Universalism.

Do you believe as Martin Luther whose statement evolved into the OSAS doctrine, or not. Can someone be assured of salvation if they willfully sin like that with no repentance? Are they the "elect"?

If he said that, he would be wrong. The ppl of God sin, but they don't make a practice of sinning. That is the thrust of the meaning of Hebrews 10:26 and 1 John 3.

But I know you said you've been sinless since 1977, so this doesn't apply to you. o_O :rolleyes:
 

SovereignGrace

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Let me see if I can understand whether you are of God or not by what you believe about willful sins of lawlessness. Here is a Statement from Martin Luther: "(For those in Christ) even if we were to commit murder and adultery 1000 times a day it would not separate us from God." Of course, this is after they believe they are saved and OSAS, not Universalism.

Do you believe as Martin Luther whose statement evolved into the OSAS doctrine, or not. Can someone be assured of salvation if they willfully sin like that with no repentance? Are they the "elect"?

I saw a site that attributed it to Luther, but do you have a direct quote from him, not what someone said he said? Many ppl have been falsely accused of saying things they did not.

But if he did say that, he was dead wrong.
 
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