All the ELECT please stand up

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GodsGrace

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In Joshua 24:15, you attempt to insert "free will" into the text of choosing the YHWH; however, read it more carefully, GodsGrace, for the passage reveals:
- choose the evil ("gods") on one side of the river
- or
- choose the evil ("gods") on the other side of the river
Joshua concludes with a declarative statement indicating the power of God with "as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" (Joshua 24:15 no "free will" for Joshua does not say that anyone chooses YHWH God).

THUS JOSHUA 24:15 IS A PROOF TEXT THAT A PERSON CAN ONLY CHOOSE EVIL AT BEST!
It matters not what the CHOICE is...it matters that the choice is AVAILABLE.
This is an easy concept to grasp.
Deuteronomy 8:19
19“It shall come about if you ever forget the LORD your God and go after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you today that you will surely perish.
20“Like the nations that the LORD makes to perish before you, so you shall perish; because you would not listen to the voice of the LORD your God.


Is listening a matter of free will?
Or does God also force you to listen to Him?
Why would the above state: BECAUSE YOU WOULD NOT LISTEN....as if the person had a CHOICE to listen or not.

Maybe you could also exegete
Deuteronomy 30:19-20
19“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
20by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”

Please note that God told Moses to say that the Israelites had THE CHOICE of life and death...and they are advised to CHOOSE LIFE.
Again, we are faced with a free will choice to make.

Also note how we serve God:
By obeying His voice and by holding fast to Him....
That also sounds like free will: both to obey and to hold fast.

In Genesis 1:31, God says "God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good", yes, indeed, it was very good for the plan of the coming of we believers Blessed Adonai Yeshua Messiah was underway (1 Peter 1:19-21, Ephesians 3:8-12)! That is amazing that the Apostle Paul wrote "in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Ephesians 3:11).
The eternal purpose was salvation through Christ...
1 peter 1:19-21
17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;
18knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers
,19but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the bloodof Christ.
20For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you

Please notice that each one's work will be judged, impartially since God is impartial. Romans 2:11

It was known from the foundation of the world that man would sin and require a savior. The above says nothing else.

In Genesis 2:16-17, we find the complete declarative statement of God thus: "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." Here is the components:
- Command: "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely"
- Command (exception ["but"] to previous Command): "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat"
- Prophesy/punishment (predictive ["for"] and conclusive ["for"]): "in the day that you eat from it you will surely die"

The word "for" is not a conditional "if" (even so, "if" does not denote ability). The word "for" is in Genesis 2:17; therefore, the punishment for disobedience is prophecy.
What?
Forget Greek...do you understand simple English??
WHY would God give Adam a CHOICE if God had already predestinated what Adam would do??

IF you eat of it DOES denote ability.
IF you go to the store ... means you have the capability to go to the store.

God did not say "oh no, Adam and Eve at from the tree which I forbade them to eat. What am I going to do? I need to come up with a plan B." That is how I perceive that you interpret the scripture; on the other hand, scripture reveals that it's all a part of God's wonderful plan of communion!

THE ACTIONS OF ADAM AND EVE WERE PART OF GOD'S PLAN TO BRING REDEMPTION BY THE BLOOD OF THE UNBLEMISHED LORD JESUS CHRIST TO A REBELLIOUS PEOPLE.
Plan B? What are you talking about?
By your understanding God created Adam and Eve so they could sin so He could plan on saving only those HE want to with the blood of Jesus?
Could you post some verses please.
I've never heard of this.

PART I
 
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GodsGrace

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PART II

In John 15:5, it is clear that a person can bear no good fruit apart from Jesus, Lord and God! Thus John 15:5 makes perfect sense with Matthew 7:15-18. When John 15:5 is read in context, it is evident that apart from Lord Jesus a person can not come to God. Praise God, that is just like John 15:16 "you did not choose Me, but I chose you". God is so very kind to give a consistent message!
No sir. John 15:5 means we can bear fruit only if we are IN CHRIST.
CONTEXT.
It is not speaking about coming to Christ,,,but that we need to come to Him to bear fruit.

Again with John 15:16
Did you study only these verses?

Free will is absent in the New Testament as an innate human ability. I covered the absense of free will from the NT previously, so "free will" is not from God as well as it is proven deceit respecting choosing God; therefore, people who claim to have "free will" are attempting to steal God's glory! Previous posts with Biblical citations for this paragraph are below.
You serve a very weak God that can have His glory stolen from Him!
I'm speaking to you NOW. I'm not interested in previous citations.
1 Chronicles 29:11
11“Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, indeed everything that is in the heavens and the earth; Yours is the dominion, O LORD, and You exalt Yourself as head over all.


I serve a mighty God, that is not worried about a human person, whom HE created, taking His glory away.

"For many are called, but few [are] chosen" declared the Lord Jesus (Matthew 22:14). Again, previous posts are below with the Word of God revealing that He came for His elect - His chosen.
Yes, many are called....God has revealed Himself to all.
John 12:32

But few are chosen.
Why?
Because there are conditions:
John 3:16
Mathew 16:24
Mathew 22:21
Mathew 25:45-46

The relationship of repentance in man with God is covered in a post link below. Spoiler alert: repentance in man is of God,

A person that does not understand the Sovereignty of God in salvation cannot believe in the Author and Perfector of the Faith once delivered to the saints for with man it is impossible to be saved but with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:25:26).

You persist in placing yourself in the category that by your free will you chose Jesus.

Lord Jesus says believers are unable to choose God, and only God can choose believers out of the world (John 15:16-19).
Free will is in the bible, from beginning to end.
Adam was given free will and you have not shown when it was taken away.

Mathew 23:37
Jesus laments that the Jews in Jerusalem WERE NOT WILLING to come to Him.
Why would He say this if it was up to GOD to pick and choose?
Why would He say this if the Jews were not FREE to come to Him?

You were dismissive of the posts revealing Truth earlier in this thread, so I asked you politely to read the posts in which the Word of God explains that God alone chooses the believer unto salvation (which are at the bottom of this very post as well, please read them). It appears you continue to avoid reading those posts.
I'm giving you the post I want you to read that support mainline Christian theology. I'm not here to read a miniature book you've written and just keep repeating the same verses.

[QUOTEYour persistent confession of a lie (claim to choose God) and your intentional avoidance of the Word of God and your continued teaching of the evil "free will" doctrine - all indicate that you are a wolf in sheep's clothing (Matthew 7:15-18).

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.[/QUOTE]
When one is losing the debate,,,he turns to personal insults.
And calls anyone that does not agree with him a liar.

Could you show me WHERE the early theologians of the church believed that we do not have free will? And believed in predestination...
You will not find it. Pre 325 AD of course....the very first theologians and believers.

In fact YOUR theology did not exist until 1,500 AD.
Why do you suppose this to be true?
Perhaps because your theology is not biblical.

EDIT BY POSTER
The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit![/QUOTE]
John 15:16 AGAIN.
Can't do better than that, can you?

Try:
Jeremiah 7:30-31
30“For the sons of Judah have done that which is evil in My sight,” declares the LORD, “they have set their detestable things in the house which is called by My name, to defile it.
31“They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind.

God is complaining that the Sons of Judah have done what is evil in His sight. IOW, God is complaining that they did what HE MADE them do.
Does this make sense to you?
Could you please explain for the rest of us.

God is saying that sons and daughters were burned and WHICH HE DID NOT COMMAND.
I thought only what GOD COMMANDED comes to be since everything is predestined.
Could you please also explain this to us.

Thanks.
 

CharismaticLady

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Again, we are sinners saved by grace. No where I have purported I hold to licentiousness. You need to either take back that claim or admit you just lied, which is an willful sin. Show me where I have purported this.

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?[Romans 6:1-2] Now, this does not mean we sin because we are saved and that gives us a license to sin, as you are alluding I am saying this. Neither does this mean we live sinless, either.

Forget it. To the ignore file for you. We are DONE!!!

Liar!!

We are either still sinners, thus a slave to sin, or freed from sin. To teach we will always sin is teaching licentiousness. I'm not a liar. That is scripture. John 8:34-36
 

GodsGrace

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We are either still sinners, thus a slave to sin, or freed from sin. To teach we will always sin is teaching licentiousness. I'm not a liar. That is scripture. John 8:34-36
Calling someone a liar is admitting that the battle is lost.

One might lie and commit a sin...
but one is NOT a liar. Correct.

We are children of God...not sinners.
Galatians 3:26
Romans 8:14
 
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CharismaticLady

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LOL
@Preacher4Truth always tells me I take scripture out of context.
(which is not true, of course).

Seems like it's going around!

Yes, there are three on this site that misapply "before Christ" scriptures onto Christians, making the claim of Jesus to take away our sin, meaningless. It is a slap in His face.
 
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GodsGrace

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Yes, there are three on this site that misapply "before Christ" scriptures onto Christians, making the claim of Jesus to take away our sin, meaningless. It is a slap in His face.
Amen.
Reminds me of Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:29
 

Kermos

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It matters not what the CHOICE is...it matters that the choice is AVAILABLE.
...snip
It matters whether a choice is available - and it matters whether the abilitly exists to choose.

In Genesis chapters 1-3, we do not find a conjugate for the verb "choose" with relation to Adam and Eve eating the truth from the tree of Good and Evil. Not in Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, nor Genesis 3:6. Here is Gensis 3:6:

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
(Genesis 3:6)

No choice indicated these Genesis passages, only actions are indicated. With respect to your comments about Genesis, you remain an error.

The word "if" does not denote ability.

The word "if" is a premise presentation construct.

Here is the typical logic structure for "if" statements:
IF <premise> THEN <conclusion>

The <premise> resolves to either TRUE or FALSE. The <premise> denotes a state of being (that is true or false), yet the <premise> does not inherently denote choice nor ability unless explicitly stated within the <premise>.

For example, "if you walk on the moon tomorrow night then I will eat a whole apple pie the next day". Neither the "if" nor the <premise> convey ability nor choice for you to walk on the moon; moreover, the <premise> can only be TRUE by ACTION or FALSE by INACTION. This describes action or inaction not choice.

Free will proponents confuse and conflate this point because persons are either a slave of righteousness (Romans 6:18) or a slave of sin (John 8:24). Apart from an act of God, the sinner acts evilly in sin; therefore, the sinner cannot choose God. Thus, we are right back to the words of Lord Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you (John 15:16).

God did not use the word "then" in Genesis 2:17 rather God used the word "for" which brings that if statement to prophesy for this context as mentioned in my previous post.

The Bible book "Acts" is called "Acts of the Apostles" not "Choices of the Apostles" for a reason.

You fallaciously assert that no one believed the Sovereignty of God in salvation of man before 1500 AD or 325 AD. Wrong again, GodsGrace, for the Apostle Paul wrote:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
(Ephesians 2:8-10)

The Word of God Himself reveals your error with:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you"
(John 15:16)

The Apostle John wrote:

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, [even] to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
(John 1:12-13)

That's all before the year 325AD, and that's all the Sovereignty of God in salvation of man.

In Deuteronomy 30:19-20 the scripture does not state to choose God rather it states to choose life; furthermore, the Israelites kept on rebelling against God; furthermore, Moses did not say that the Israelites had the ability to choose God. Deuteronomy 30:19-20 are in accord with John 15:16 such that God does the choosing and man is incapable of choosing God.

Again, there is no choice indicated in Deuteronomy 8:19, but there is choice indicated in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) thus the Word of God reveals the Sovereignty of God in salvation of man.

No matter what verse you point at in the Bible, it will not conflict with the Word of God Jesus Who declared "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) thus speaking to all of us believers of all time.

Adding insult to your self-inflicted injury GodsGrace, you evilly and rebelliously claim that you chose God in your own free will and that is in direct opposition to and defiance of the words of the Lord Jesus Christ when he said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Not only do you deny the words of Lord Jesus in John 15:16, but you also deny the words the Lord Jesus in John 6:29 in which He states that it is a work of God for a person to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent.

In futility you attempt to distract from John 15:16 with your vain misinterpretation of scripture. You have been proven to be deceitful again and again. At this point, you need to hear Jesus "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) that means that you cannot be saved by your own free will - that means that the good fruit of being saved is from God Alone.

You cannot believe in Jesus in your current state since you claim that you chose Jesus.

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)

- "Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post" (in this thread)

- "The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
 
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Kermos

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PART II
...snip
Wrong again, GodsGrace!

In John 15:5, it is clear that a person can bear no good fruit apart from Jesus, Lord and God! God alone is good (Matthew 19:17). Thus John 15:5 makes perfect sense with Matthew 7:15-18. When John 15:5 is read in context, it is evident that apart from Lord Jesus a person can not come to God. Praise God, that is just like John 15:16 "you did not choose Me, but I chose you". God is so very kind to give a consistent message!

You evilly think that you can do good by choosing God, but that is not what God says with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Free will is absent in the New Testament as an innate human ability. I covered the absense of free will from the NT previously, so "free will" is not from God as well as it is proven deceit respecting choosing God; therefore, people who claim to have "free will" are attempting to steal God's glory! Previous posts with Biblical citations for this paragraph are below.

Regarding Jeremiah 7:30-31, they are slaves of sin (John 8:34), serving the devil (John 8:44) which is a lot like free willers that serve their false god for free willers deny the words of Lord Jesus when He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16)!

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)

- "Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post" (in this thread)

- "The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post" (in this thread)

- "The Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
 
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Kermos

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WOW, .....just wow.

Well that put you in your place @GodsGrace!!!! o_O
Unbiblical verbiage, ByGrace. Here is Biblical verbiage: deceitful tongues are shut (Mark 15:11, Romans 3:19).

I'd like to share something the Apostle John wrote:

49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all,
50 nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish."
51 Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,
52 and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.
(John 11:49-52)

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)

- "Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post" (in this thread)

- "The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post" (in this thread)

- "The Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
 

GodsGrace

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Unbiblical verbiage, ByGrace. Here is Biblical verbiage: deceitful tongues are shut (Mark 15:11, Romans 3:19).

I'd like to share something the Apostle John wrote:

49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all,
50 nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish."
51 Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,
52 and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.
(John 11:49-52)

The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.

These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:

- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)

- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)

- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)

- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)

- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)

- "Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post" (in this thread)

- "The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post" (in this thread)

- "The Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post" (in this thread)

The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
Aha!
I see what you do.
You copy and paste.
Have you noticed that I don't do this?
When I post I post only to YOU....

Back to your reply to me....
 
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Kermos

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No matter how many times these are shown they are not born (contextually saved) by their will, they'll go right back and deny this truth and say "Oh yes I was!" Scripture on the other hand flat out denies this. Bottom line? They trust more in the idol of self, even if it's in the lie that they willed their salvation, rather than in the GOD who willed and elected based on his purpose.

They trust self, not God in this very thing.
My wife lamented today:

If people really love God, why would they be so upset at the idea that He chose them and that He's in control?

It is such a horrifing thing that so very many free will people think that they chose Jesus, yet they march down the wide way to destruction.
 
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Kermos

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snip...
How did I ever make it this far??!!
;)
God "causes His sun to rise on [the] evil and [the] good, and sends rain on [the] righteous and [the] unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45).

God is patient (longsuffering in the KJV), but God's patience with free willers will come to an end.

Today, I tell you that Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) thus rendering free will to only be able to choose a false god.
 

GodsGrace

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It matters whether a choice is available - and it matters whether the abilitly exists to choose.

In Genesis chapters 1-3, we do not find a conjugate for the verb "choose" with relation to Adam and Eve eating the truth from the tree of Good and Evil. Not in Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, nor Genesis 3:6. Here is Gensis 3:6:

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
(Genesis 3:6)

No choice indicated these Genesis passages, only actions are indicated. With respect to your comments about Genesis, you remain an error.
You did not reply to my two scenarios....how come?
Why would God put two persons in a nice garden and give them directions as to NOT EATING the forbidden fruit...IF He had already predestinated them to eat it?

When you are give A CHOICE....you use your free will to make that choice.
Excuse me...you don't have free will...but the rest of us do.

If I tell you to choose between two items....it means you have THE ABILITY to make that choice. If you DID NOT, why would I ask you to make the choice?
Do you not realize that your theology makes no sense?

You said only actions take place in the Garden.
Right. Eve DECIDED TO EAT THE FRUIT.
Free will means she could have DECIDED NOT TO.
Free will means you make a choice of something when another choice would have been possible.

You should study up on libertarian free will since THIS is what God has granted us.

Your view of free will, which is compatiblist, is a sick version of free will that only an unloving and puppettering God would use.

It's impossible to explain away free biblical will.
How do you explain Jesus crying over Jerusalem because THEY WOULD NOT COME TO HIM.....Implying that they COULD HAVE come to Him but decided NOT TO.
Mathew 24:37

WHY does Jesus tell some to depart from Him in Mathew 7:23 because they were lawless? IF GOD MADE THEM LAWLESS, why would a just God now bannish them for doing what HE programmed them to do?

PLEASE answer these questions...I've noticed that you have 3 or 4 pet verses,,,but the bible is FULL of verses that deny what you believe.


For example, "if you walk on the moon tomorrow night then I will eat a whole apple pie the next day". Neither the "if" nor the <premise> convey ability nor choice for you to walk on the moon; moreover, the <premise> can only be TRUE by ACTION or FALSE by INACTION. This describes action or inaction not choice.
Please study up on English.
IF YOU WALK ON THE MOON TOMORROW NIGHT...
IMPLIES...
That you MAY NOT walk on the moon tomorrow night.
It conveys A CHOICE.
True or False has nothing to do with the above.

Free will proponents confuse and conflate this point because persons are either a slave of righteousness (Romans 6:18) or a slave of sin (John 8:24). Apart from an act of God, the sinner acts evilly in sin; therefore, the sinner cannot choose God. Thus, we are right back to the words of Lord Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you (John 15:16).
IF one is either A SLAVE TO RIGHTEOUNESS
or
A SLAVE TO SIN
You have ONCE AGAIN, created a choice.
Choice denotes free will.

And please stop with John 15:16.
Didn't your church teach you any other verses to debate?
You should know by now that it's referring to the Apostles.
I gave you two commentaries...could you give me just ONE that is not Calvinistic?
No, you cannot.

The Bible book "Acts" is called "Acts of the Apostles" not "Choices of the Apostles" for a reason.
Maybe it's called ACTS OF THE APOSTLES because they ACTED on their belief?
Maybe because they CHOSE to become saved and were persecuted for it...and travelled the world to preach the gospel...

WHY preach the gospel if GOD already predestinated who will be saved??

You fallaciously assert that no one believed the Sovereignty of God in salvation of man before 1500 AD or 325 AD. Wrong again, GodsGrace, for the Apostle Paul wrote:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
(Ephesians 2:8-10)

The Word of God Himself reveals your error with:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you"
(John 15:16)

The Apostle John wrote:

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, [even] to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
(John 1:12-13)

That's all before the year 325AD, and that's all the Sovereignty of God in salvation of man.

In Deuteronomy 30:19-20 the scripture does not state to choose God rather it states to choose life; furthermore, the Israelites kept on rebelling against God; furthermore, Moses did not say that the Israelites had the ability to choose God. Deuteronomy 30:19-20 are in accord with John 15:16 such that God does the choosing and man is incapable of choosing God.

Again, there is no choice indicated in Deuteronomy 8:19, but there is choice indicated in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) thus the Word of God reveals the Sovereignty of God in salvation of man.

No matter what verse you point at in the Bible, it will not conflict with the Word of God Jesus Who declared "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) thus speaking to all of us believers of all time.

Adding insult to your self-inflicted injury GodsGrace, you evilly and rebelliously claim that you chose God in your own free will and that is in direct opposition to and defiance of the words of the Lord Jesus Christ when he said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Not only do you deny the words of Lord Jesus in John 15:16, but you also deny the words the Lord Jesus in John 6:29 in which He states that it is a work of God for a person to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent.

In futility you attempt to distract from John 15:16 with your vain misinterpretation of scripture. You have been proven to be deceitful again and again. At this point, you need to hear Jesus "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) that means that you cannot be saved by your own free will - that means that the good fruit of being saved is from God Alone.

You cannot believe in Jesus in your current state since you claim that you chose Jesus.
You are misquoting me so I will not answer the above.
Your same old verses are posted because you know no others.

God will decide who is deceitful.
God will decide who has misrepresented Him in a most ugly way.

Please reply to my verses above,,,
if you can.
 
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GodsGrace

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My wife lamented today:

If people really love God, why would they be so upset at the idea that He chose them and that He's in control?

It is such a horrifing thing that so very many free will people think that they chose Jesus, yet they march down the wide way to destruction.
The wide way to destruction.

Thanks for reminding me.

JESUS said in Mathew 7:13 to enter by the narrow gate.
He DID NOT say to just wait till GOD DECIDES which gate we enter by.

HE SAID:
ENTER by the narrow gate.
IOW, act, as you've stated.
Get up.
Move.
Enter by the narrow gate.

Yes, it's really difficult to get away from free will.

Did your wife choose you?
Guess not. God chose her for you, or you for her, or .....
 

GodsGrace

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My wife lamented today:

If people really love God, why would they be so upset at the idea that He chose them and that He's in control?

It is such a horrifing thing that so very many free will people think that they chose Jesus, yet they march down the wide way to destruction.
Please advise your wife that we Christians are not a bunch of puppets.
Tell her God loves us enough to give us free will.
Tell her that He desires that we love Him freely or it's worth nothing.
Tell her your love for her would be meaningless if she were forcing you to love her.

I'm sure she'll understand the above.
 

Kermos

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The wide way to destruction.
...snip
Thus is is the Word of God: "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

Therefore, no person can get to the narrow gate without the Power of God, Who said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

That puts all free willers on the wide road to destruction.
 

GodsGrace

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God "causes His sun to rise on [the] evil and [the] good, and sends rain on [the] righteous and [the] unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45).

God is patient (longsuffering in the KJV), but God's patience with free willers will come to an end.

Today, I tell you that Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) thus rendering free will to only be able to choose a false god.