Scripture doesn't say...but I believe that the devil knew at the very least that Jesus was the Son of God...as did his demons.
Yes, most definitely, satan is an idiot.
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Your responses were really interesting ! .. although a bit all over the map ..
First off .. Satan does know - and tests him on this .. "If you truly are a Son of God" or "The son of Man" - prove it. This is what Satan says to Jesus .. so obviously Satan is aware that this is the Son of Man .. come before him .. come before him for testing.
Did you think this was just some random dude off the street Satan "who is this fellow - I think I will test him" Of course not .. ?! Satan knows this is the Son of Man before him. but - who sent Satan to Test Jesus .. according to what we know of "The Father" in OT scripture...
Yeah .. that would be El -YHWH - who you seem to know very little about until I came into your life. .. funny .. because it is not like the fellow is not mentioned by name .. many times .. Lord YHWH El Shaddai - God of the Mountain .. whoever that guy is . and what is name is really doesnt matter.. Of the very little that we do know about this fellow .. we know that he has some other divinities visit him from time to time .. the Israelite's believed that these other divinities were "Son's of God" - not angels ... and this distinction is made clear in a number of passages .. Deut 32:43 being one example .. the passage where it was so obvious .. later transcribers decided to wipe that stuff out of the Bible ... and for good reason .. 700-900 AD was not exactly a happy time to be Jewish - being blamed for the death of JC and all - but more it was just the natural progression of the belief from Monolateralism to Strict Monotheism.
In any case .. whoever these divinities are .. these "sons of God" - they are shown as way lower than the Father .. rejoicing with the Father in Heaven ... but bowing to the Father in Deut 32.43.
Notice that these divinities are rejoicing with God - in heaven .. they are with God .. in heaven. Angels are also mentioned but they are on a lower tier ... down the the peoples and nations ...
"O heavens, rejoice with Him, Bow to him all sons of the divine /(sons of God)
O nations, rejoice with his people and let all angels of the divine Strengthen themselves in Him
For He’ll avenge the blood of His Son’s, Be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
Requite those who reject Him, and the Lord will Cleanse his peoples land"
Then in Job - we have these divinities again celebrating with God .. and Satan Happens to be among them - and is one of them.
The Father singles out one "son of God" named Satan or rather - "The Advocate" the "Tester" - he is known by his Job Title - and son or no son .. he is an interesting divinity
The Father boasts to this Son - Have you seen my servant Job - he says to the tester ... paraphrasing .. look how devoted.
The son responds .. just like a son to his Father - well sure .. but you gave him everything . (and Satan throws down the gauntlet - Lets make a bet) take that stuff away and lets see what happens. The Father accepts - but tells Sataniel - do what you like but don't harm him physically .. and off The Tester Goes to make Job's life miserable .. reigns lightning down from the heavens or some such thing .. the dude has some major powers ... But .. he does not act outside the will of the Father ..
So when we look to the "Tester" arriving on the Scene - who do you think sent him ? From what we know about the Tester .. and what do we know about him .. that he does not act outside of the will of the Father ... sure there may be other nasty angels that did whatever in the non canonical stuff but this was not "The Tester" someone else perhaps .. who knows .. It is as much God's fault as it was Satan's fault the things that happened to Job .... that's a fact.
So coming from this perspective .. if this was all you knew .. and the folks in 60 AD didnt have anything else to Go on .. are you seriously maintaining that Satan is such an Idiot .. that he would ask God to bow before him.
It is Satan bowing before God in Deut 32:43 - be he a "Son of God" as written in the text .. or as an "Angel" the term used to try to whitewash the past away .... it matters not .. Satan and the rest of the Sons are depicted as bowing before God in Deut 32:43 .. and no .. Satan's name is not mentioned . . but the idea that he would not be in attendance of such a major event is absurd ..
The greatest deceiver the world has ever known .. is not an Idiot .. his best trick was to convince you that he is - as he is the Tester - the "Devils Advocate" - thats his job .. given to him by "The Father" or did you want to try to convince me that God can not prevent Satan from carrying out his duties .. that God can not Fire Satan .... on a whim ... what little respect that would show to "The Most High" - don't you think ?
The rest is going to be painful - or was at least for me.
Because he wanted God to worship him....hoping that such a thing would make him God. The devil took the title deed of the earth from Adam and thus had control over the kingdoms of the world...thus he could offer them to God.
Jesus came to take the title deed back...He would do this by dying on the Cross and raising from the dead...but the devil was offering Him a shortcut.
Most definitely, yes, satan is an idiot
Sorry .... the idea that the story was written to convey that message ... No .. you are making things up to try and fit the Bible into your narrative .. rather than "Looking at the Narrative"
Jesus was not sent to take Satan's place - to take over the job of the Tester here on Earth - Jesus is here to Judge those - "AFTER" they have been tested ... and good luck making it through a game .. where you have way underestimated your opponent.
The advocate shows up in the Garden .. once again at the behest of "The Father" - the humans fail ... but, we can not blame them.. it was no contest.. The Great Deceiver with God like Powers (lesser God Stuff) against two humans with the minds of babies w/r to good and evil.. completely innocent .. trusting of everyone .. including the Advocate.
The Snake did not take the deed away .. God did that - or was certainly party to the action. and what damn deed are we talking about to begin with .. God gave the earth over to Man - what are you talking about "deed" .. the deed to what. What you mean to say - is that Sataniel is in charge down here .. and on this I would agree ... The tester is here .. but that does not make the Tester responsible for all the evil in the world - necessarily .. I would say the choices of man have something to do with it as well - for there is a little of the divine and a little of the Devil in all of us...
gnosticism Also
Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh...and those who deny this have the spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
But, you are in danger of the council...
:cool:
It is interesting that I was describing Trinity Doctrine - exactly as doctrine states - and you call out Gnostism .. and same with John's Logos - you again call out Gnostism ..
and you are kind of correct because the two share some aspects .. but not all aspects .. so it is incorrect to call John's Logos and the Trinity Doctrine "Gnostism" .. but kind of humorous and ironic .. and almost priceless really -
Lastly ... who denied that Jesus did not come in the Flesh ? certainly not I ..so what on earth are you taking about ? never mind .. focus on the other stuff :)
