All the fulness of Deity dwells in Him Bodily !

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Heyzeus

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Jesus is also human. 100% Man and 100% God in the hypostatic union.

A human who is God ... If Jesus is God - there is nothing to test. You are in avoidance and denial mode.

How does the HS become separated from the father ?? become a distinct substance (hypostasis) and "Proceed from the Father" -

The HS is one of at least 2 emanations from the Godhead - but this does not make Trinity Doctrine -Gnostism.
 

Heyzeus

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FAITH IN JESUS ONLY . Now who would argue with that .
But lets examine our faith . IS our faith truly IN JESUS , the biblical one .
IF it is , we trust , we heed and WE DO HIS sayings . IF not our faith is all in vain . WE never loved HIM .
And beleive me , i know VAIN FAITH , DEAD faith , for i lived it for many years .
TILL one day the true grace of GOD came and drew me to the TRUE BIBLCAL JESUS and my whole life changed .
If any man be a hearer only , but not a DOER , his religoin is vain , his faith is dead .
AND as i said , I OUGHTTA KNOW , That was what i once was .

Sure - but this does not help us much with "Sola Fide" - find the proper salvation formulation as given by our Lord. and Savior in scripture.

A- Faith Alone (Sola Fide ) no works required
B - some mixture of faith and works
C- Works alone - no faith required.

We see examples of B and C in scripture. What we do not see much of - is salvation by faith alone . and in fact Jesus himself - and James 2 - condemn this doctrine.

The Majority of Christianity Catholic-Orthodox - rejects "Sola fide". The majority believes it is a mixture of faith and works.

Good Quote from James. This is echoed directly in the Sermon on the Mount - where Jesus describes what is required to make it through the pearly gates.


Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
 

Taken

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• Son of Man, Jesus - Flesh and Blood

Matt 20:
[28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mark 9:
[31] For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

John 3:
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of manwhich is in heaven.

Luke 12:
[40] Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of mancometh at an hour when ye think not.

Luke 21:
[27] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

The Son of Man came to Earth.
The Son of Man was born of a virgin.
The Son of Man was Seen by men.
The Son of Man was Heard by men.
The Son of Man was Killed & Risen
The Son of Man returned to Heaven.
The Son of Man return to Earth.

John 5:
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

• Christ the Power of God.
1 Cor 1:24

The Son of Man is Jesus.
The Power of God is Christ, IS God.


Men Saw Jesus.
(some men Believe Jesus IS the Christ)
No Earthly man has Seen God.
No Earthly man has SEEN Christ.

The Son of Man Shall Return to Earth.
All Earthly EYES Shall SEE Him.
Earthly Eyes Shall Not SEE Christ.
Earthly Eyes Shall SEE the EFFECTS of Christs Power.

Matt 24:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of manin heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

God is Omnipresent.
Having "Prophetic Knowledge" is One thing.
Waiting until it "come to pass" is another Thing.

Jesus IS SEEN, "Son of Man"
Christ IS the UNSEEN "Power of God."

" Men Making God an an Earthly man, is Not Scripture IN Context."

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Heyzeus

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No, distinct.

The Holy Spirit is the Father, after He descended to become a Man and then released His Spirit back to Himself.

No, distinct.

The Holy Spirit is the Father; and yet He is also distinct from the 1st Person of the Trinity.

It is the same thing - you are pining over semantics. How does the HS become "distinct" "not the same as" the Father -

You say "The Holy Spirit was "released" from the Father " So the HS went somewhere .. and then came back to the Father is what you are saying.

So during the time when the spirit is released .. there is a distinction between God and the HS = "they are not the same - one can be distinguished from the other" .

Obviously what you are describing is a separation between the HS and "The Father" .. if they were not separated .. then one could not go back to the other as you suggest .. as they never were separated in any way.

The only way one can make any sense of this contradiction .. is if while these entities are separated/Distinct - they are still connected. Which is what Trinity Doctrine states - which is exactly what the phrase "emanation from the Godhead" is describing - regardless of whether or not Gnostics used similar terminology to describe something related - but in a different way.

Different religions often use the same or similar words and concepts. This does not Turn Buddhism into Christianity.
 

Truther

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He was not denying that He was God...for there was a Spirit dwelling in Jesus Christ....see John 14:7-11.
That is what I have been saying all along.

Just be cause someone has the Holy Ghost inside them does not qualify them as God.

Only the Col 2:9 effect can qualify them, but they first must be made a quickening spirit and omnipresent to accomplish this feat.
 

Truther

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What the text implies is that Satan knew that this person was the "Son of God" -

The idea that Satan would knowingly ask God to Bow down to him .. goes against everything we know about Satan from the OT.
Who sent Jesus to Satan for Testing ? God did .. as discussed previously.

The job of "The Advocate" The Tester of of Job and Genesis .. is to test man - (and in this case the Son of Man)
The "Advocate" was given this job by God .. and the Tester does not act outside the will of his Boss -

The idea that the Advocate would ask the almighty - "the most high" the one who created him - to bow before him - is simply not credible.

What you are doing is making things up about what Satan thinks .. in an attempt to make your narrative fit into scripture rather than going with scripture
The son of God was not God, but the son of God(and Mary).

However, the Father of the son was inside the son so this was the vessel that interacted with Satan.

If any part of the son was God, then Satan caught God at a moment of weakness, since God was fasting and hungered.
 

Heyzeus

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Just be cause someone has the Holy Ghost inside them does not qualify them as God.

Exactly - although there is difference between the interaction of the HS with Jesus ... and with man.

Jesus was "The Logos" - emissary between man and God ... sent to earth to deliver God's word - Gods Message to humanity - "the Good News". Jesus spoke God's word through the Holy Spirit that dwelt within Jesus all the while he was occupying the fleshy vessel - which folks like to make so much of.

While Jesus spoke God's Word via the HS .. Human's are not able to do this -sans a brief intervention directly from "the Father" which we are told happened with the Apostles.

Average Joe is not able to do this - and attempting to do this is heresy - usurping the position of Jesus - the "unforgivable Sin" - blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
 

Heyzeus

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The son of God was not God, but the son of God(and Mary).

However, the Father of the son was inside the son so this was the vessel that interacted with Satan.

If any part of the son was God, then Satan caught God at a moment of weakness, since God was fasting and hungered.

Bottom line - The author of Mark - and the audience Mark was writing to - did not think that Jesus was "God -The Father".

Had folks at the time of Mark thought the text was saying this - they would have burned it - as this idea was contrary to what people of that time believed .. and it remained this way for another 150 years. Only around 200 AD - was this idea even mentioned within serious Christian circles.
And it took another 125 years after that .. before this whole "Father is the Son" idea took hold - and was made doctrine by edict from a Pagan Emperor.

Even then - it took many more decades for the Holy Ghost to join the party - and anther 500 years of persecuting Christians who held beliefs contrary to this new man made - made up doctrine - to become the Gold Standard.
 

Truther

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Exactly - although there is difference between the interaction of the HS with Jesus ... and with man.

Jesus was "The Logos" - emissary between man and God ... sent to earth to deliver God's word - Gods Message to humanity - "the Good News". Jesus spoke God's word through the Holy Spirit that dwelt within Jesus all the while he was occupying the fleshy vessel - which folks like to make so much of.

While Jesus spoke God's Word via the HS .. Human's are not able to do this -sans a brief intervention directly from "the Father" which we are told happened with the Apostles.

Average Joe is not able to do this - and attempting to do this is heresy - usurping the position of Jesus - the "unforgivable Sin" - blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
The logos made Jesus and was in Jesus.

It is really that simple.

The logos did not "become" Jesus, then spoke through Himself(as most surmise).
 

ChristisGod

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@heyzues still clueless I see as not one Trinitarian believes the Father is the Son that is the oneness heresy and those who deny the Deity of the Son are unitarian heretics/false teachers.
 

Truther

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Bottom line - The author of Mark - and the audience Mark was writing to - did not think that Jesus was "God -The Father".

Had folks at the time of Mark thought the text was saying this - they would have burned it - as this idea was contrary to what people of that time believed .. and it remained this way for another 150 years. Only around 200 AD - was this idea even mentioned within serious Christian circles.
And it took another 125 years after that .. before this whole "Father is the Son" idea took hold - and was made doctrine by edict from a Pagan Emperor.

Even then - it took many more decades for the Holy Ghost to join the party - and anther 500 years of persecuting Christians who held beliefs contrary to this new man made - made up doctrine - to become the Gold Standard.
You know, I taught the Father is the son for over 30 years.

I know all about that stuff.

I miraculously shook the hook somehow and gave Jesus back his Biblical identity as an individual with a God.

Presupposition can be a curse.
 
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Heyzeus

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The logos made Jesus and was in Jesus.

It is really that simple.

The logos did not "become" Jesus, then spoke through Himself(as most surmise).

1) its not simple at all
2) who said the Logos became Jesus ?

Not sure what you are getting at here .. Jesus was "The Logos" on this we agree.

Jesus spoke God's word through the Holy Spirit.
 

Truther

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@heyzues still clueless I see as not one Trinitarian believes the Father is the Son that is the oneness heresy and those who deny the Deity of the Son are unitarian heretics/false teachers.
I was oneness.

Also, Jesus claimed no individual deity, but another's deity inside him.

The Col 2:9 effect on him after his resurrection made him(his inner) God by default, which the unitarian refuses to realize.
 

Truther

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1) its not simple at all
2) who said the Logos became Jesus ?

Not sure what you are getting at here .. Jesus was "The Logos" on this we agree.

Jesus spoke God's word through the Holy Spirit.
Most say the logos became flesh.

This means Spirit became flesh, which directly contradicts Jesus' description of God in John 4:24.
 

ChristisGod

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duh John 1:1 and John 1:14

the Word was God- ie is God

the Word (who is God) became flesh- a man is the Incarnation. Jesus is God manifest in the flesh as Scripture declares. All the fulness of Deity(God) dwells in bodily form( a man with a human body) once again declaring the Incarnation.

game, set and match.......................
 

Truther

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duh John 1:1 and John 1:14

the Word was God- ie is God

the Word (who is God) became flesh- a man is the Incarnation. Jesus of God manifest in the flesh as Scripture declares. All the fulness of Deity(God) dwells in bodily form( a man with a human body) once again declaring the Incarnation.

game, set and match.......................
Spirit is flesh?

Spirit became a microscopic sperm cell to mate with Mary's egg?

It is easier to say the Spirit became a full grown man instantly, right?
 
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