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All the fulness of Deity dwells in Him Bodily !

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Christophany, Sep 26, 2020.

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  1. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    If the son was the Spirit, God, and God impregnated Mary, then the son(God) impregnated Mary.
     
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    bull-pucky...

    You referenced the concept that is just as good as promoting it.
     
  3. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

    Really?

    There is zero resemblance to your description of the verse.

    This is how the Bible get's mistranslated(classic example for all to see).
     
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The Spirit of God became one with the egg in the womb of the virgin Mary...but He was not then the Son but the Holy Ghost.

    The Sonship of Christ has to do with the hypostatic union...the fact that He is come in the flesh.
     
  5. Heyzeus

    Heyzeus Well-Known Member

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    '

    This doesn't change the fact that the doctrines are very similar in some respects.


    How does the HS "Proceed from the Father" = go out from the Father - separate from the Father .. without being separate from the Father ? You are confusing the HS being from God - with the HS being God.

    Once again - there is nothing in the NT that can be defacto claims "Jesus is God - "The Father'


    Trinity > History of Trinitarian Doctrines (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
     
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Since Jesus is God, He could not in that verse have been denying that He was God.
     
  7. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    You just described the son impregnating his mother.
     
  8. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    Is Jesus also implying he was God in the following chapter too?...

    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    There is no similarity.

    They are not separate but distinct.

    Consider, first, 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).

    Now, compare Ephesians 4:5 and Mark 12:29 with Matthew 11:25 and Luke 10:21..then go to 1 Corinthians 12:3 and then 1 Corinthians 8:6.

    There is one Lord, even the Father; and no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost. And Jesus is the Lord.

    Therefore, if Jesus and the Father are separate Lords, that is two Lords; but if they are one Lord, they are the same Lord...and that makes Jesus the Father.
     
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    He was not denying that He was God...for there was a Spirit dwelling in Jesus Christ....see John 14:7-11.
     
  11. Heyzeus

    Heyzeus Well-Known Member

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    What the text implies is that Satan knew that this person was the "Son of God" -

    The idea that Satan would knowingly ask God to Bow down to him .. goes against everything we know about Satan from the OT.
    Who sent Jesus to Satan for Testing ? God did .. as discussed previously.

    The job of "The Advocate" The Tester of of Job and Genesis .. is to test man - (and in this case the Son of Man)
    The "Advocate" was given this job by God .. and the Tester does not act outside the will of his Boss -

    The idea that the Advocate would ask the almighty - "the most high" the one who created him - to bow before him - is simply not credible.

    What you are doing is making things up about what Satan thinks .. in an attempt to make your narrative fit into scripture rather than going with scripture
     
  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    No, the Spirit is not the Son; except after He is incarnated in flesh.
     
  13. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    Good job defending the truth!

    Mark 10:13-27
    13 People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16 And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.

    17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 19 "You know the commandments, ' DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'" 20 And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." 21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

    23 And Jesus, looking around, * said to His disciples, "A How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!" 24 The disciples A were amazed at His words. But Jesus * answered again and said to them, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 26 They were even more astonished and said to Him, " Then who can be saved?" 27 Looking at them, Jesus said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God."

    Jesus point in His questioning of the ruler was rhetorical in nature. Do you know who you are calling good? Only God is good. He was saying to the ruler "Do you know who I Am and who you are speaking too? If you read on it becomes obvious for Jesus turned him away from gaining eternal life. He knew what was in his heart and keeping him away from the kingdom. Only God knows what is in mans heart and can allow a person into His Kingdom. Jesus was clearly claiming to be God in this passage.

    No prophet, apostle or teacher has ever talked in this presumptuous way in which Jesus did in the gospels and especially in this passage in the synoptic gospel. The young ruler runs up to Jesus kneels to Him in worship and asks Him how can I obtain eternal life? Jesus answers back and said come "Follow ME!" Do you see what Jesus is claiming? He does not say, these are the teachings that God has given me or follow these rules and you will get into heaven. He did not say to follow God or submit to God. Jesus tells the man to follow Me! Only God has that prerogative.

    He was saying indirectly to the ruler, know that whom you are speaking to is God. He was letting the young ruler understand who he was talking to and addressing as good. Look at it this way, Is He saying He is not good, and therefore not God? Or is He saying that He is good, and the reason this man can call Him good is because He is God? I opt for the second statement.

    Let’s examine the context of the passage and what is going on when this man approaches Jesus. He says why do you call me good and points out to the man that only God is good. The man is unaware of His identity which Jesus who knew men’s hearts was aware of with the young ruler. This man thought of Jesus as just a mere man and not the Son of God. Jesus response was not one of denying His own sinlessness or deity. The context clearly shows just the opposite to be true. Jesus claims absolute authority over the young ruler by asking him to come and Follow Me. To call Him "good teacher" you better recognize who you are speaking to and this is exactly the point Jesus was getting across to the young ruler. Jesus is eternal life and the man was unaware of this truth which is rather obvious by his questions.

    How does one obtain eternal life? Jesus confronted him with His Lordship when He said come and follow Me. Jesus confronted the man's sin of covetousness. It was a sin of indulgence and materialism. He was indifferent to people who were poor and in need. So Jesus gave him the ultimate test, would he obey His Lordship? The antis and non trins get all hung up on who is good and cannot see past the plank in their own eyes to see what one must do to be saved. They're still in an unbelieving state and miss out on eternal life from its very source, Jesus. Rather sad indeed.

    If we further examine the context of the question asked by the young ruler in verse 13 we read; people were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, He was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16 And He took the children in His arms, put His hands on them and blessed them. 17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to Him and fell on his knees before Him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 "Why do you call Me good?" Jesus answered. Let’s see what question was asked of Jesus. How can I get eternal life?" is the question. "Follow ME!" is the answer that he gets from Jesus. Do you see what He is claiming? He does NOT say, these are the teachings that God has given Me. Follow these rules and you will get to heaven. He did not say, "follow God or submit to God", but he said "Follow ME!". Jesus is Lord and had the authority to ask of mankind, Follow Me!

    John 1:6-8
    John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through Him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

    John 5:39-40
    39 " You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

    John 8:14
    " Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going.

    John 8:18-20
    18 I am one who testifies for Myself; My other witness is the Father, who sent Me."

    19 Then they asked Him, "Where is your father?"

    "You do not know Me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew Me, you would know My Father also."

    Luke 24:27
    Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

    Luke 24:44-45
    44 Now He said to them, " These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

    hope this helps !!!
     
  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    satan is not the "Advocate"...Jesus is (1 John 2:1).
     
  15. Heyzeus

    Heyzeus Well-Known Member

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    Do you no think God has the power to take the powers of Jesus away during testing ?

    You are welcome this belief but, then what is the point of testing - if Jesus is God. There is nothing to test.. once again your story relies on Satan being a complete idiot .. and further .. come to think of it .. it also relies on God being a idiot.


    I do not believe in an idiotic God.
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It is perfectly in conjunction with it...see Isaiah 14.
     
  17. Heyzeus

    Heyzeus Well-Known Member

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    Of course there is similarity .. you have no clue what you are talking about and are just rambling for the purpose of rambling .. throwing mud at the wall and hoping something sticks .. with no regard for either doctrine.

    OK .. so the HS is separate. Thank you for making my case ... How does the HS get separated from the Father .. if the HS is the Father.

    Are they separate .. or are they not separate ? Once again - the Trinity contradicts itself.

    How does the HS get "separate" .. and proceed from the Father - while remaining one with the Father - without being an emanation from the Father .. which simply means separate .. but still connected.

    You have claimed the HS is "Separate" from the father .. is it the "Still connected" part that you are having trouble with ?
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is also human. 100% Man and 100% God in the hypostatic union.
     
  19. amigo de christo

    amigo de christo Well-Known Member

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    FAITH IN JESUS ONLY . Now who would argue with that .
    But lets examine our faith . IS our faith truly IN JESUS , the biblical one .
    IF it is , we trust , we heed and WE DO HIS sayings . IF not our faith is all in vain . WE never loved HIM .
    And beleive me , i know VAIN FAITH , DEAD faith , for i lived it for many years .
    TILL one day the true grace of GOD came and drew me to the TRUE BIBLCAL JESUS and my whole life changed .
    If any man be a hearer only , but not a DOER , his religoin is vain , his faith is dead .
    AND as i said , I OUGHTTA KNOW , That was what i once was .
     
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    No, distinct.

    Distinct.

    The Holy Spirit is the Father, after He descended to become a Man and then released His Spirit back to Himself.

    No, distinct.

    The Holy Spirit is the Father; and yet He is also distinct from the 1st Person of the Trinity.
     
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