Am I understanding this right? Christians go to Heaven and then return to Earth...
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I think it's called soul sleep.
In Revelation it says st the second coming of Christ, the sea, death, and Hades will give up their dead.
There's a passage too, OT I think, that ddud of the dead, the flesh returns to the dust it came from. While the soul returns to God who have it.
But then there is that NT passage that says no one has entered heaven but the one who came from it.Jesus.
Returning to earth, that's after the war on earth when Jesus rules here hot something like a millennium. After Armageddon.
It's a bit confusing I think.
After Jesus atoned for sins, souls of the righteous go to heaven.
John the revelator saw souls under the altar in heaven.
When Jesus returns, He brings those souls with Him to be united with their resurrected and immortal bodies during the resurrection:
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
John the revelator saw souls under the altar in heaven.
When Jesus returns, He brings those souls with Him to be united with their resurrected and immortal bodies during the resurrection:
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I would like to draw attention to the verse above highlighted for the purpose of the understanding that Jesus will bring certain ones with him from heaven.
Jesus is coming in the clouds as a rescue mission from certain destruction. A rescue mission for his saints....the dead will be resurrected and the living translated to meet Jesus in the air. Where do they go from there?...to Heaven....thats where Jesus will bring them....he'll bring them to heaven with him.
If the dead saints are already in Heaven why do they need to be raised from the dead?
An inaccurate understanding of what occurs at Jesus return creates confusion and lots of shuffling and shunting to justify the error.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Hi K9 Buck,
Here are some Scriptures and notes for your edification.
The Coming of the Lord
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that you sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (go ahead of) them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
There is a beautiful sequence of chapters in 1 Corinthians that leads to the uplifting account of the Christ's return and the gathering of His Saints, both dead and alive.
Observe:
- Ch.10 Idolatry
- Ch.11 Communion
- Ch.12 Gifts
- Ch.13 Love
- Ch.14 Order
- Ch.15 RESURRECTION
1Co 15:50-58 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption. (51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? (56) The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. (57) But thanks be to God, which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (58) Therefore, my beloved brethren, be you stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as you know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
I already explained that.
The souls of the redeemed who die go to heaven, and at the resurrection and rapture, they are reunited with their resurrected and immortalized bodies.
The verse about Jesus bringing them with Him is clearly saying that at His second coming, He brings the souls in heaven with Him, and the dead in Christ and those Christians alive at that time, will be caught up and the resurrection occurs simultaneously.
He’s returning from heaven in that passage, not taking them to heaven.
At His return, Jesus comes back to mount olive that He ascended from, and brings all the saints with Him, Zechariah 14:5, that were just caught up in the air in the rapture.
He will never go back to heaven again, and the Father will join Him on the earth and dwell there forever, Revelation 21, Zechariah 14.
Shalom.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
A revisit to the understanding of the word 'soul' will find it is not a seperate entity to body or spirit.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
We are living souls....we don't have them.
'and the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath (spirit) of life and man became a living soul'. Genesis 2:7
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
K9Buck if you truly want to know study Revelation. The truth of the matter is written there. Understanding only comes from the Lord. You’ll see just before Christ returns to the earth to rule the groups that come with him and at what point. There is something called the marriage supper of the Lamb. Examine it closely and you’ll see the groups. You’ll see how each group gets there. Always let God be true. He will guide you in all truth. Most men will explain things through their own self reasoning which is not truth.
In the Old Testament all the dead, both good and bad, went to a place called Sheol. In Luke 16 Jesus gave the only description of what life was like for its inhabitants, although he called the place Hades.
Lazarus and the rich man – parable or actual event?
Since Jesus died to atone for our sins, the righteous now go the Heaven, to a place called Paradise. He told the dying thief who repented that he would be with him that very day. Some time in the future an event called the Rapture will take place. All believers, dead and alive, will be taken to Heaven. When Jesus returns to take up his rule over the earth we will return to rule with him. At the end of his thousand year rule Satan will be released to foment a final rebellion. The this earth will be destroyed and a new heaven and a new earth will be created. This new earth will be the eternal home of all who are redeemed.
This is a complicated subject. Here is a site that can help you to understand it.
Rapture Ready | End Times News, Rapture Index, Pre-Tribulation
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
strange thing; Jesus didn't go to Paradise that day. Was he lying or have we missed something?
I have a crazy question. Does our soul come into existence at conception or before?
I believe that believers go to Heaven upon death and are with Jesus. I don't believe that we go into "soul sleep". The idea that we will then have new bodies and live in a new Earth is fascinating to me. I wonder. Will we be able to fly and teleport and be able to do anything that we imagine? I can't wait!
There is that odd verse, huh? The one that says, and they saw many of their dead walking around. I think they rose and Jesus took them with Him after that 40 days.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Souls are not seperate entities to us any more than being human is...You do not have a soul, you do not have a human....You are a soul, you are a human.
One could say we become human at conception but that would be like saying the house becomes a building when there is only a foundation ....would you call a foundation a building?
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