America’s Choice: A Christian Nation or Part of the New World Order?

[BarneyFife]

Calling evil good, and good evil, is a result of a general decline in the church and refusal of the church to teach good sound biblical truth. In discarding the laws of God as the only true arbiter of faith and morals, the world in general has taken the more evil view that there is no longer any restraint on what they do, and there will therefore neither be any repercussions.

And the church has, in compromising with the world, converted itself to them instead of the other way around.

Where are you, Marks, ol' buddy? I'm over here church-bashing!

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The duty of government is to protect the freedom and liberty of it's people to express themselves spiritually according to their conscience, all the while protecting others from the evil choices people make.

I would prefer to stipulate that government's involvement in matters of freedom of conscience be severely limited, even in "protecting" it.

"Let him that readeth understand"

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[BarneyFife]

The only solution is spiritual, because the powers at work behind the scenes are spiritual.

Generally speaking, and I don't know if my opinion is germane to your post (boy, did I open myself up there), The only hope or solution is the return of The LORD Jesus Christ in power and glory. I don't mean to over-simplify, but I'm much more worried about what the devil is doing in the hearts of individual souls for whom Christ died than in political intrigue.

I get a lot of heat for this attitude at home. My son often asks me questions in our discussions that suggest he suspects I don't even care about social and civil issues. And to some extent, I suppose he's right.

But whenever I think of or hear about politics or geopolitics, I think back to a time when my wife was getting her Criminal Justice degree and we had to visit this huge law library. There were thousands and thousands of books as far as the eye could see, and I thought to myself: "All of these books in an essentially vain attempt at civil order just because folks will go to any lengths to circumvent ten simple rules."

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[Brakelite]

Generally speaking, and I don't know if my opinion is germane to your post (boy, did I open myself up there), The only hope or solution is the return of The LORD Jesus Christ in power and glory. I don't mean to over-simplify, but I'm much more worried about what the devil is doing in the hearts of individual souls for whom Christ died than in political intrigue.

I get a lot of heat for this attitude at home. My son often asks me questions in our discussions that suggest he suspects I don't even care about social and civil issues. And to some extent, I suppose he's right.

But whenever I think of or hear about politics or geopolitics, I think back to a time when my wife was getting her Criminal Justice degree and we had to visit this huge law library. There were thousands and thousands of books as far as the eye could see, and I thought to myself: "All of these books in an essentially vain attempt at civil order just because folks will go to any lengths to circumvent ten simple rules."

.

You are right. I try very hard to avoid politics, but, and it's a very big BUT, politics has become an idol for a vast number of Christians, and it's even affecting our own church... I try and limit my commenting upon the subject in attempts to expose the empty trust that people have that this party or that individual will save them and their nation from the ever increasing velocity at which all nations are hurling toward physical, mental, and spiritual ruin. It's difficult not to talk politics when the abomination of desolation has already been planted in holy ground... The union of church and state as a means by which to bring about the kingdom of God and His righteousness is to my perhaps warped way of thinking, exactly what the devil is doing in others minds.

 

[Brakelite]

"All of these books in an essentially vain attempt at civil order just because folks will go to any lengths to circumvent ten simple rules

Catholic Canon Law a shining example of exactly that.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

We can also look at it as evil has always been in the world, ever since Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree God told them not to, and then Cain murders Abel, not long after God floods the earth because men becomes so wicked, after Noah the decline continues, many turn their backs on God, Israelites are slaves of Egyptians for 400 years, God sets the Israelites free, but then again they fall away from God, make idols and worship them, pass their children through the fire. Again and again the world falls, Jesus comes, many follow Him, Jews and Romans then persecute and crucify Him, then we got the slaughter of Christians not long after Jesus's ascension, then the Gospel spreads rapidly after many Christians were being persecuted and getting killed, and then comes the dark ages, lots of violence and murder, and then the massacres of the blacks and mistreatment of others with a different skin colour, this was not all too long ago, the stolen generation goes up to something like the 1970s, where Aboriginal kids were being taken away from their families and this was happening in Australia "when Australia was meant to be a Christian majority nation", but many treated others in ways that they shouldn't have, similar things happened in the United States.

So morality has been on the downward spiral ever since Adam fell really, even though their were times of revival, many men still continued to fall after.

Then some may ask what is the point of a revival? Salvation, reignition for God, it's a type of grace God gives for many generations, even though many have fallen away, many have been saved from the depths of hell through these Holy Spirit revivals by the grace of God and entered the gates of Heaven. And we are in need of another revival for this generation especially in the Western world, the recent statistics show that a large majority of young Australians do not believe in God.

The so called stolen generation were truly the saved generation in fact, what people have been brainwashed to believe is that the Abos were stolen. but if anyone understands the Times ? the Church was a movement for such, why because of what they seen, could not be tolerated by anyone with a heart !
Two of my good mates from grade 3 on, were saved and they lived in a Church home with a lot more other abos.
Did they like being in the home from their mothers, No ! but it was for the best in regards for themselves. they had no fathers ! People in the days could not tolerate such conditions that the kids lived under, so they had to save them from such.

Australia did not have the huge wealth that our society have nowadays with the money to spend on welfare like we now have.
So the intentions were good ! but when it comes to anything to do with Governments, such becomes about as good as tits on a bull.
So there lies the problem, Red tape and Sub human robotic ? much like the Jews letter of the Law ? There in no Grace in Government in fact, it's an institution ? much likened to a mental hospital somewhat, in that it can never get anything right, it does not tackle the problem truly, but sits off a far ? as it's involvement is truly Sterile !
That's the Key to the problems of Governance ! the same bastard system stood in my way regarding business, sub contracting etc, they worked to destroy such people as us and did nothing for us nor would listen at all. we were out in the cold ! shun out, used and abused, shafted no end and we worked like slaves !
Now Not to mention because we were white, they make out it is us who is the problem. This is the type of BS that goes on all the time and some slob up the ladder, just tosses it our way and the public swallow it all.
It's like a idiot Builder who blames everything on the trades under the low life grub cunning dog Builder, who is nothing but a total BS Artist 24/7. That reminds me of politics, the Art of all such is just BS !

 

[Lizbeth]

It has probably already been said but to me it looks as though the church has replaced the gospel with politics as a means of restoring "righteousness" in the land. Whereas the nation used to be more righteous and blessed only because the church used to be taking ground with the gospel, not because of politics. The church in retreat is now resorting to politics in place of wielding the sword of the Spirit. Now the land is not so blessed and incurring God's chastisements. Of course we need to be responsible citizens and governments need to steward well, but good government is more a result of blessing rather than a means to blessing.

Even Christian television used to be geared to spreading the gospel message and saving souls, but somewhere along the way it changed focus to become focused on Christian audiences and amassing donations to increase their "ministries" to appeal to even more Christians rather than lost souls. Think that is an accurate reflection of how inward looking the so-called evangelical church has become in general. Probably due to too many material comforts I think...we got so blessed with material comforts we stumbled over it and neglected to turn our blessing back over to God (thinking of David's example in the OT pouring back out the drink of water that cost so much). May the Lord grant us repentance.

 

[amigo de christo]

It has probably already been said but to me it looks as though the church has replaced the gospel with politics as a means of restoring "righteousness" in the land. Whereas the nation used to be more righteous and blessed only because the church used to be taking ground with the gospel, not because of politics. The church in retreat is now resorting to politics in place of wielding the sword of the Spirit. Now the land is not so blessed and incurring God's chastisements. Of course we need to be responsible citizens and governments need to steward well, but good government is more a result of blessing rather than a means to blessing.

Even Christian television used to be geared to spreading the gospel message and saving souls, but somewhere along the way it changed focus to become focused on Christian audiences and amassing donations to increase their "ministries" to appeal to even more Christians rather than lost souls. Think that is an accurate reflection of how inward looking the so-called evangelical church has become in general. Probably due to too many material comforts I think...we got so blessed with material comforts we stumbled over it and neglected to turn our blessing back over to God (thinking of David's example in the OT pouring back out the drink of water that cost so much). May the Lord grant us repentance.

Many have forgotten or never knew our Kingdom is not of this world . Just as many have fallen out to the love of material wealth
By grace , long ago i warned out against the prosperity gospel as i watched leaders
who claimed to be building the kingdom of God yet rather were growing their own earthen kingdom off the backs off those
they should have been caring for and preaching truth too . They went on to holler
We need massive jets so as we can go and proclaim the gospel . YET the only gospel i ever heard them preach
and the only focus i ever seen them on was PROSPERITY . And sure enough they did fly those great jets
but it was not to save souls butrather to convert them to become GIVERS of goods unto them .
Then i watched a utter tragedy also unfold . The churches had become tied into govt mighty rather than GOD all mighty .
And the focus became we need men who are gonna make our way of life easier . Their hopes were in men to give them the easy life .
Forgetting that Christ had told us in this world ye shall have tribulation and that persecution for HIS sake
was to be counted a blessing . Many see only money as a blessing now . And worse
we have both sides of govt claiming we do for the people , when in truth they do for themselves .
Our message must be on the gospel and the truth and hope we have IS not of the world but in CHRIST ALONE .
Many have fallen out to a great deception in these last days .
From prosperity gospel preachers to nar , to liberal churches and all , now more and more are buying
the end time lie . A delusoin has struck the masses and another god has been created .
It is a god that the entire world can be as one under and embrace . Even atheists love this god
even buddists , even many within christendom , even muslims , any religoin embraces this god
that shall unite them and is uniting them as one .
That god has a name . They embrace love , And yet if we examine the love they embrace
its a love that denies the truth of God , its a love that denies Christ as the only means of salvation
its a love that panders to sins and says do as thou wilt and let others do the same .
That love is not of GOD but of satan . And this is one serious delusion , the likes of which i have never seen
Its uniting all religoins and as i said even athiests , cause it simply says all ye need is love .
And again if we examine its love it accepts sins , its accepts other religoins and paths as valid and good
and hollers all ye need is love . The love god who always desired to be as GOD has become god too many
and is uniting them to be as one and boy do they hate biblical truth that points to Christ alone as the only means of salvation
and anyone truth it hates that would correct certain sins . Satan has not slept
He has and is gathering all tribes , nations , religious and non religious to be as one
and has prepared a digital world system and a religoin of love that will serve this system and its kings .
And one hour shall the kings rule with the beast . Its all coming to pass right in front of our faces .
THE GOSPEL must be put back at the front of all churches as well as all sound bible doctrine by which the churches would have
grown wise and been kept safe .

 

[Lizbeth]

Many have forgotten or never knew our Kingdom is not of this world . Just as many have fallen out to the love of material wealth
By grace , long ago i warned out against the prosperity gospel as i watched leaders
who claimed to be building the kingdom of God yet rather were growing their own earthen kingdom off the backs off those
they should have been caring for and preaching truth too . They went on to holler
We need massive jets so as we can go and proclaim the gospel . YET the only gospel i ever heard them preach
and the only focus i ever seen them on was PROSPERITY . And sure enough they did fly those great jets
but it was not to save souls butrather to convert them to become GIVERS of goods unto them .
Then i watched a utter tragedy also unfold . The churches had become tied into govt mighty rather than GOD all mighty .
And the focus became we need men who are gonna make our way of life easier . Their hopes were in men to give them the easy life .
Forgetting that Christ had told us in this world ye shall have tribulation and that persecution for HIS sake
was to be counted a blessing . Many see only money as a blessing now . And worse
we have both sides of govt claiming we do for the people , when in truth they do for themselves .
Our message must be on the gospel and the truth and hope we have IS not of the world but in CHRIST ALONE .
Many have fallen out to a great deception in these last days .
From prosperity gospel preachers to nar , to liberal churches and all , now more and more are buying
the end time lie . A delusoin has struck the masses and another god has been created .
It is a god that the entire world can be as one under and embrace . Even atheists love this god
even buddists , even many within christendom , even muslims , any religoin embraces this god
that shall unite them and is uniting them as one .
That god has a name . They embrace love , And yet if we examine the love they embrace
its a love that denies the truth of God , its a love that denies Christ as the only means of salvation
its a love that panders to sins and says do as thou wilt and let others do the same .
That love is not of GOD but of satan . And this is one serious delusion , the likes of which i have never seen
Its uniting all religoins and as i said even athiests , cause it simply says all ye need is love .
And again if we examine its love it accepts sins , its accepts other religoins and paths as valid and good
and hollers all ye need is love . The love god who always desired to be as GOD has become god too many
and is uniting them to be as one and boy do they hate biblical truth that points to Christ alone as the only means of salvation
and anyone truth it hates that would correct certain sins . Satan has not slept
He has and is gathering all tribes , nations , religious and non religious to be as one
and has prepared a digital world system and a religoin of love that will serve this system and its kings .
And one hour shall the kings rule with the beast . Its all coming to pass right in front of our faces .
THE GOSPEL must be put back at the front of all churches as well as all sound bible doctrine by which the churches would have
grown wise and been kept safe .

Yes, the church has fallen into the trap of believing that gain is godliness...and in so doing this marginalizes and shames the poor, when in fact the gospel is good news to the poor! James 2:5 "Hath not God chosen the poor of this world, rich in faith....?"

Amen, there is a false love being embraced, and my it can be so deceptive and seductive. There is a counterfeit spirit that is very real and feels like the Holy Spirit. Deception is often planted amongst so many true words of scriptures, we need to be very alert. Lord have mercy and grant us discernment and strength to resist what is false.

 

[Philologos]

Christian nationalism is the belief that the American nation is defined by Christianity and that the government must act to keep it that way. The New World Order is an emerging world government that will eventually take over. What will America choose?

America’s Choice: A Christian Nation or Part of the New World Order?

I think when the Right attached God to politics, we all decided to let "Christian" politics define our identity as a nation. That's not what God told us to do. He never said, "make a Christian nation..." He did tell us, how, to "make disciples in all nations." I think when we do what we said we'd do, He'll honor that, I'm sure.

 

[Earburner]

This current administration chooses the New World Order.

For those of us who do know what their agenda is, the Luciferian Doctrine, it is obvious that this administration has it's marching orders from "the man behind the curtain"- (The Wizard of Oz).
One must assess the situation not from Satanism, but rather the benevolent theatrics of manipulation towards a one world order, having the facade of being in control of everything for the well being of humankind.

 

[Timtofly]

I think when the Right attached God to politics, we all decided to let "Christian" politics define our identity as a nation. That's not what God told us to do. He never said, "make a Christian nation..." He did tell us, how, to "make disciples in all nations." I think when we do what we said we'd do, He'll honor that, I'm sure.

Pretty sure it was the liberals that wanted the freedom to sin and get away with it. That liberal social doctrine of the 50's and 60's. Most of them professed to be Christians at one point.

 

[ewq1938]

He never said, "make a Christian nation..."

Nor did he say not to. Naturally as Christianity grew, Christian nations would form and that is good.

 

[Philologos]

Nor did he say not to. Naturally as Christianity grew, Christian nations would form and that is good.

Wow! Such wisdom... "Nor did he say not to." Gen 11:4 is an example of "He didn't say we couldn't..."

I'm just messing with you. Yes, a Christian nation would be ideal, but can it truly be "christian" if it offers religious freedom?
If you say it needs to be a Christian nation, there has to be discrimination against non-Christians running the government. The alternative is to force allegiance, (like previous, unnamed, Christian nations have done), but then religious freedom ceases again. Take a moment to think about it... the US government was fashioned such that anyone can run it, even non-Christians, the ones we offered religious freedom to.

I'll end on your point that God "didn't say not to..." He did tell us to remain in whatever circumstances we're in and have patience. Building a nation in the name of God without God's expressed and proven authority...? I can only remember what happened when people tried to honor God in ways He didn't ask for or approve of in the Bible. The US was built by citizens of Christian-ruled nation to escape being forced to believe what the ruling class believes.

 

[ewq1938]

I'll end on your point that God "didn't say not to..."

I'll end on my point also, with another point:

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Christians were already a holy nation long ago. So, starting or being a Christian nation isn't an issue as the concept is not only allowed but already accomplished in a way a long time ago. Whether any nation truly was a Christian nation, that is up for debate.

 

[Philologos]

I'll end on my point also, with another point:

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Christians were already a holy nation long ago. So, starting or being a Christian nation isn't an issue as the concept is not only allowed but already accomplished in a way a long time ago. Whether any nation truly was a Christian nation, that is up for debate.

Oh darn, you started a new point. The word "nation" in your translation is the Greek word, "ethnos." At best, it means tribe. A nation has a political structure. God has never given Christians a pattern for politics.Yes, I know ethnos is normally translated as nation, but it does not imply government, politics, voting, etc. It merely identifies a specific group of people, not a country.

Anyway, enjoyed the chat.

 

[ewq1938]

Oh darn, you started a new point. The word "nation" in your translation is the Greek word, "ethnos." At best, it means tribe. A nation has a political structure. God has never given Christians a pattern for politics.Yes, I know ethnos is normally translated as nation, but it does not imply government, politics, voting, etc. It merely identifies a specific group of people, not a country.

Anyway, enjoyed the chat.

Technically ethnos means ethnic, a race of people but in this case it's about Christians and we know there isn't just one race of them so it would be a group of people, of all races, united in a single religious sense and there are guidelines for how to live in the bible. Sounds like a way to govern life along with religious beliefs. Politics etc would be a natural part of that as it was with Israel.

 

[Philologos]

Technically ethnos means ethnic, a race of people but in this case it's about Christians and we know there isn't just one race of them so it would be a group of people, of all races, united in a single religious sense and there are guidelines for how to live in the bible. Sounds like a way to govern life along with religious beliefs. Politics etc would be a natural part of that as it was with Israel.

Politics, natural to Israel? I'm sorry, can't imagine why you would say that. The only thing natural to Israel was idolatry.

As far as a Christian country... It's a nice thought.

 

[ewq1938]

Politics, natural to Israel? I'm sorry, can't imagine why you would say that.

Because politics was part of Israel, as it is with all human beings. I can't imagine how you wouldn't know that. Do you think it's somehow just a modern thing?

 

[Philologos]

Because politics was part of Israel, as it is with all human beings. I can't imagine how you wouldn't know that. Do you think it's somehow just a modern thing?

I see that our differences evidently lie in our individual interpretations of “politics.” The politics I’m speaking of are manipulative strategies that have no place in a nation claiming to be ruled by God. Not the same “politics” that you found in Israel’s Theocracy.

 

[Earburner]

It merely identifies a specific group of people, not a country

Correct, specifically all professing Christians who are born again His Holy Spirit, aka the "wheat", of which are "peppered" within all the visible churches.
See also Romans 8:8-9.